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What exactly do we know about the two legions that are deleted from the IoM records?

I mean did they have their own primarch? Anyone hve any info on why they were deleted from IOM records and what not?

Nrljm wrote:What exactly do we know about the two legions that are deleted from the IoM records?

I mean did they have their own primarch? Anyone hve any info on why they were deleted from IOM records and what not?

Yes they had 20 Primarchs. The two legions activelly participated during the Great Crusade and both Primarchs were found.

For one reason or another, the legions did something and disobeyed the Emperor. They were punished and the other Primarchs were forbidden to speak of them again. The Space Marines in the legions were however kept quite on what was the ultimate fate of these legions.

During the Horus Heresy, Rogal Dorn and Malcador toyed with the idea of bringing both legions back to help fight Horus. This implies they were not destroyed. Judging by the nature of the conversation it most likely means they were either put into stasis or they were sent out on a mini crusade.



Also if anyone says they joined the Ultramarines they are wrong. That was a rumor of the Word Bearers Space Marines.

Sources are Lightning Tower, Mechanicum, and The First Heretic

Wow wish there was more about these two legions... Is there Any info on these two primarchs that were removed?

Nrljm wrote:Wow wish there was more about these two legions... Is there Any info on these two primarchs that were removed?

I dont remember anything. Someone could probably look it up in those books if they have it with them

Okay, I'm putting this up because I find it extremely well written, but I must stress it as entirely fan-made and unofficial. That said, it's been extremely accurate in the information it provides considering how long ago it was written.

http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html

It matches up each of the primarchs with one of the major arcana of the Tarot. It then uses these to extrapolate to the two missing primarchs to guess at what their personalities and interactions with other primarchs may have been. If you're interested, the missing primarchs are described under the High Priestess and Fortune.

I use this for my own personal headcanon considering it's accuracy is almost scary, but again, it's not official.

Nrljm wrote:Wow wish there was more about these two legions... Is there Any info on these two primarchs that were removed?

No. Nothing to the point that would let you figure out things about them.

All we know is that one was destroyed ("the lost") and one was wiped from the records, with the Word Bearers believing that the Ultramarines absorbed the remainder into their ranks.

Kanluwen wrote:

Nrljm wrote:Wow wish there was more about these two legions... Is there Any info on these two primarchs that were removed?

No. Nothing to the point that would let you figure out things about them.

All we know is that one was destroyed ("the lost") and one was wiped from the records, with the Word Bearers believing that the Ultramarines absorbed the remainder into their ranks.

I just said we know more than that lol

I've seen a few people use their imaginations to create the lost primarchs,

'Lost' doesn't necessarily mean destroyed. they could be the first
'lost and damned' (chaos marines) or they could be floundering in the warp
or they could be having a party in a 'secret place (grey knights anyone?)' on Terra

Is there Any info on these two primarchs that were removed?

Nothing official or canonical. It's supposed to be a mystery, lost in the mists of time over the last 10,000 years between the time of the Heresy and the current year of the 41st millennium.

Decio wrote:I've seen a few people use their imaginations to create the lost primarchs,

'Lost' doesn't necessarily mean destroyed. they could be the first
'lost and damned' (chaos marines) or they could be floundering in the warp
or they could be having a party in a 'secret place (grey knights anyone?)' on Terra

They found out about the Horus Heresy before it started, left to Terra to warn Emperor, lost in warp for over 10,000 years. In the grim darkness of the 42nd millennium two legions of space marines come out of the warp near Terra to warn the Emperor about Horus.

Wow this is a huge opening for GW/FW to market on if they ever need to.....


"hey guys.....ummm... We kinda just located the lost legions..... And uhmmm....here's the new models, BUY THEM NOW!!"

Psssh. Until i'm given a direct answer by GW - i'm going along with the older (although subsequently outmoded) theory...

Back from the days when GW were still learning about things like canon...





Good old Sigmar.

Decio wrote:I've seen a few people use their imaginations to create the lost primarchs,

'Lost' doesn't necessarily mean destroyed. they could be the first
'lost and damned' (chaos marines) or they could be floundering in the warp
or they could be having a party in a 'secret place (grey knights anyone?)' on Terra

Maybe they're the legion of the damned?
LEGION of the damned.
Seems possible.

And maybe they are the bulbasaur legion, could be bloody anything... Tis why I asked if there's any actual facts about it..

I thought maybe legion of the damned but I'm pretty sure they have there own history of how they came to be...

Well it was just an idea. I think you already got the facts from Galdos. Insomuch as there are any facts about the two missing legions.

I wasn't being an ass or anything haha don't take it in the wrong way, I was just being witty lol...

I'm still sticking with the Tarot interpretation. It's predicted everything else correct about the primarchs, I trust its predictions of the missing primarchs as well.

GreatGunz wrote:

Decio wrote:I've seen a few people use their imaginations to create the lost primarchs,

'Lost' doesn't necessarily mean destroyed. they could be the first
'lost and damned' (chaos marines) or they could be floundering in the warp
or they could be having a party in a 'secret place (grey knights anyone?)' on Terra

Maybe they're the legion of the damned?
LEGION of the damned.
Seems possible.

The Legion of the Damned have (unfortunately) had their mysterious past revealed. They're the Fire Hawks chapter. Well, ex-Fire Hawks chapter.

I wish GW wouldn't reveal things like that.

jareddm wrote:I'm still sticking with the Tarot interpretation. It's predicted everything else correct about the primarchs, I trust its predictions of the missing primarchs as well.

I will definitely read that tomorrow. Sounds like the best angle of attack on this problem so far.

A few things we do know-
-They are NOT the Legion of the Damned. We know exactly who the LotD is, the Fire Hawks.
-Both lost legions were around, even for an incredibly short amount of time, during the Great Crusade
-Both of their fates are known. Just not to us. One is described as 'lost' and the other 'forgotten'
-It has been made very clear in the HH books that neither legion 'escaped' or is missing.

Like I said, their fates are known. And while not outright confirmed, it's pretty heavily hinted that Russ was involved in killing/destroying on of them (the Lost).
I personally postulate that something was wrong with the other primarch(the Forgotten), like he didn't develop fully, or was mutated by chaos during his magical trip through the warp as a baby, and when the Emperor found him put the poor kid out of his misery and his legion was absorbed by the Ultramarines.

Unlike years before the HH novels, there is now virtually ZERO room to base DIY chapters on the 2nd and 11th Legions.

SickSix wrote:I will definitely read that tomorrow. Sounds like the best angle of attack on this problem so far.

People argue against it that the author was applying existing information about the primarchs to the tarot, rather than the other way around. While I haven't been able to get in contact with the author, from what I can tell it was written in early 2008 at the latest. So the only HH novels that could've even possibly been involved with its creation beyond the collected visions would have to have been earlier than Legion.

SickSix wrote:Unlike years before the HH novels, there is now virtually ZERO room to base DIY chapters on the 2nd and 11th Legions.

You could always build an early Great Crusade-era army and base them off of the missing legions.

SickSix wrote:

Like I said, their fates are known. And while not outright confirmed, it's pretty heavily hinted that Russ was involved in killing/destroying on of them (the Lost).
I personally postulate that something was wrong with the other primarch(the Forgotten), like he didn't develop fully, or was mutated by chaos during his magical trip through the warp as a baby, and when the Emperor found him put the poor kid out of his misery and his legion was absorbed by the Ultramarines.

.

This was my thoughts as well.The UM were freaking huge with little explanation as to just why.

Hunterindarkness wrote:

SickSix wrote:

Like I said, their fates are known. And while not outright confirmed, it's pretty heavily hinted that Russ was involved in killing/destroying on of them (the Lost).
I personally postulate that something was wrong with the other primarch(the Forgotten), like he didn't develop fully, or was mutated by chaos during his magical trip through the warp as a baby, and when the Emperor found him put the poor kid out of his misery and his legion was absorbed by the Ultramarines.

This was my thoughts as well.The UM were freaking huge with little explanation as to just why.

There's actually quite a bit of room for explanation as to why. Two off the top of my head...

1) They had incredibly stable gene-seed. They still do. It's why there's so dang many Ultramarines Successor Chapters.
2) The Emperor intended for them to operate with little in the way of support from the other Astartes during The Great Crusade. Hence: larger numbers.

There's, of course, the Word Bearers making snide remarks about the Ultramarines only being so large because of them taking the leftovers from the Forgotten Legion but Lorgar smacked that talk down fairly fast as being petulant noise.

My idea is this.
They did something bad near the beggining of the crusade, the emporer banished them. Then he striked alll record of them as punishment.
This would have happened to horus and his followers BUT he died before it could take place.
So the chaos should be considered lost but they arent because the BIG E is busy.

That' doesn't completely make sense. But following that logic, they might have been expunged because two legions were easier to do it to. Have Russ and his maniacs take care of them, swear the Astartes to silence, kill any non-Astartes witnesses.

With Horus, the scale was too grand, and reached Terra. It's not really possible to expunge them and kill any witnesses that aren't Astartes since, well, you'd be killing too many people (as well as the population of Terra), so they get branded Excommunicate Traitorus instead.

-Loki- wrote:

GreatGunz wrote:

Decio wrote:I've seen a few people use their imaginations to create the lost primarchs,

'Lost' doesn't necessarily mean destroyed. they could be the first
'lost and damned' (chaos marines) or they could be floundering in the warp
or they could be having a party in a 'secret place (grey knights anyone?)' on Terra

Maybe they're the legion of the damned?
LEGION of the damned.
Seems possible.

The Legion of the Damned have (unfortunately) had their mysterious past revealed. They're the Fire Hawks chapter. Well, ex-Fire Hawks chapter.

I wish GW wouldn't reveal things like that.

And they're Ultramarine Successors?

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Kanluwen wrote:
There's actually quite a bit of room for explanation as to why. Two off the top of my head...

1) They had incredibly stable gene-seed. They still do. It's why there's so dang many Ultramarines Successor Chapters.
2) The Emperor intended for them to operate with little in the way of support from the other Astartes during The Great Crusade. Hence: larger numbers.

There's, of course, the Word Bearers making snide remarks about the Ultramarines only being so large because of them taking the leftovers from the Forgotten Legion but Lorgar smacked that talk down fairly fast as being petulant noise.

The reason games-workshop gave for this is that the ultramarines were diverted by a large proportion of the word bearers,
leading to them to have had less casualties than the other legions.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

And they're Ultramarine Successors?

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Well that's what they claim, but the Ultra's aren't buying it.

As far as I know, the only reference to the ultramarines taking the recruits from the missing legions is in the first heretic, and my opinion of the way they put it made the entire thing seem like the two missing legions were shamed. Every other source Iv'e seen has had a different story on what happened to the missing legions.

-Loki- wrote:That' doesn't completely make sense. But following that logic, they might have been expunged because two legions were easier to do it to. Have Russ and his maniacs take care of them, swear the Astartes to silence, kill any non-Astartes witnesses.

With Horus, the scale was too grand, and reached Terra. It's not really possible to expunge them and kill any witnesses that aren't Astartes since, well, you'd be killing too many people (as well as the population of Terra), so they get branded Excommunicate Traitorus instead.

That too, What im saying is basicaly the emperor couldn't get say they where lost.

The Ultramarines were off fighting somewhere else in the galaxy; large numbers left alive.
Then they returned to 'take over' (re-stabilize is what they call it) the Imperium.

I kinda wish the Ultramarines would lose horrendously for once instead of
winning through heroic crap and tactics that could rival Creed's genius.

As for the two lost legions, maybe they were the not-so-friendly type to the Ultras
and were kinda shoved in a corner for a bit like the Iron Warriors.