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So I've been somewhat slowly building up a Daemons of Chaos force; something different as my first melee based force. So far I have a KoS and 22 Daemonettes with plans to have at least two squads of 18 and of course at least 12 fiends. However one thing I have not quite come to a decision on is the heavy support section, I like both the Soul Grinder and the Daemon Princes. I've heard that I shouldn't mix and match, but should go for one or the other.

My question is, as I'm going for a mono Slaanesh army at the moment, which is the better option if any out of the two? Also if neither the Daemon Princes aren't worth taking, would a second KoS be viable for the army? At the moment I'm trying to head it towards the 1500 points mark, but I understand the bigger stuff is much more suited to higher point level games due to their cost for what you get in most cases.

If you are going mono slaanesh I recommend grinders for this army with Tongue. You really want to be able to shoot open a few transports in games and they are more durable than people give them credit for. You do not need to go with all one type, but if you take grinders I like to take 2x of them.

I'd honestly just recommend not trying to play a mono-god army. Chaos Daemons isn't a strong enough codex to ignore the few solutions it has to common problems (I'm talking about shooting open vehicles, mainly). And Daemonettes are pretty weak on their own, but people say Skarbrand's rerolls strengthen them a lot.

Tzeentch units are basically the only way to open transports. If you cut things open in assault, whatever is inside will shoot anything Slaanesh can field to pieces instantly.

At 1500 points, running 2 greater daemons is pretty rough. The KoS and one or more heralds (or chariot heralds) is a good choice. Pavane of Slaanesh is pretty strong. Fiends are fantastic and cheap, so aim for 18 of them if you want to go Slaanesh-heavy. Figure out how to convert them, though, because buying a bunch of expensive OOP metals won't be fun.

Here's one of my 1500 point lists for reference:
333 HQ: Fateweaver
105 HQ: Chariot of Tzeentch +Bolt +Gaze +MoS +WaL
105 HQ: Chariot of Tzeentch +Bolt +Gaze +MoS +WaL
190 Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh x6 +Might
190 Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh x6 +Might
190 Elite: Fiends of Slaanesh x6 +Might
100 Troops: Pink Horrors x5 +Changeling +Bolt
95 Troops: Pink Horrors x5 +Bolt
95 Troops: Pink Horrors x5 +Bolt
95 Troops: Pink Horrors x5 +Bolt

You could easily swap Fateweaver for a KoS and some of the MSU Pink Horrors for Daemonettes. Daemon Princes are good, but you'll be pleasantly surprised at how killy Fiends are (and how fast they are! plus hit & run!) and may not need heavier support with so many of them. I haven't played with Soul Grinders, but I've always been really happy with Daemon Princes, and at $66 a pop for units that I might end up hating, I'm wary about the investment. If Forge World is popular where you play, Nurgle Blight drones are great, and not too expensive points-wise.

Unquestionably the demon prince. The soul grinder is the only thing in the demon codex that dies horribly to anti-tank weapons. Why create the vulnerability?

GreatGunz wrote:Unquestionably the demon prince. The soul grinder is the only thing in the demon codex that dies horribly to anti-tank weapons. Why create the vulnerability?

Because a Slaanesh dp cannot open a transport...?

I do agree tat you can do a lot with fiends/heralds/horrors w/o a dp or sg. For mono anything but tzeetch tho sg fill a huge gap. Your greater daemons, princes and crushers all have the same target profile as a sg, so those weapons are not ineffective like a lascannon on green tide. The only vulnerability is to melta (or AP 1) type weapons, which become much more deadly inside 6"/12"

May look into weaving some Tzeentch into the list eventually then. Perhaps Dryads as counts as Horrors, since I dislike the new plastic ones.


I also guess another question I should have asked is what's a good load out for the prince?

Maybe, but the vulnerability of the soul grinder to anti-tank weapons means you can really only count on shooting it once. I would discourage anyone from paying 150+ points to shoot one str. 10 ap 1 gun a single time. If OP just has to keep it mono slaanesh, I'd recommend a 3rd squad of fiends for anti-tank. Honestly, demons aren't very good at killing transports over all, and mono slaanesh is even worse at it. Atleast the fiends are harder to kill than the Soul grinder.


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I would just try to keep him cheap. The 3+ armor and wings are kind of a no brainer. Past that, the upgrades usually aren't worth it, although I can't remember the specific slaaneshi upgrades without looking them up. Which I'm far too lazy to do. Pavane of slaanesh is ok, but nowhere near as strong as Lash.

If your going mono-Slaneesh, Grinders are a must for some ranged support. Its not that Slaneesh princes can't open transports, but you want to open transports in the shooting phase, not the assault phase, as often as possible with daemons as you want to charge the contents.

n0t_u wrote:May look into weaving some Tzeentch into the list eventually then. Perhaps Dryads as counts as Horrors, since I dislike the new plastic ones.


I also guess another question I should have asked is what's a good load out for the prince?

I use some dryads for the same purpose and they mostly look the part. A few of them had leaves that needed to be shaved off but otherwise very Tzeentchy.

I always give my Princes wings even though they are super expensive. The added threat range makes a bug difference and means that most turns I can get them in an assault on top of whatever shooting I buy for them.

I would definately go with Daemon Princes; the BS3 hurts the Soul Grinder far too much in my opinion and furthermore, even with AV13, it won't last long against your opponent's Anti-Tank weaponry.

I too play mono-slaanesh Daemons and my favourite way to open up transports and assault the units inside is by using Daemonettes to open up the transports with rending against AV10 and then use things such as Seekers and Fiends with the 12" charge range to hit the things which pop out.

That way, it allows my Princes and KoS to go after more high-priority targets such as Land raiders and Dreadnoughts. It does require a bit of finesse however, positioning is really key to make it work. Once you get it down however, I find it works quite well.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:I would definately go with Daemon Princes; the BS3 hurts the Soul Grinder far too much in my opinion and furthermore, even with AV13, it won't last long against your opponent's Anti-Tank weaponry

I wish people would stop propagating these myths. First, a Grinder has a statistially identical chance to Destroy/Explode an AV 11 (slightly better chance for glancing damage results due to Gaze) vehicle as a Tzeetch Prince and a grinder is strictly BETTER against AV 12+.

Second, the chance to kill a grinder in 1 s8 shot is ~7% (w/o cover). The chance to fail 4 straight saves on a Tzeetch Prince is 6.25%. It takes 9 bolters to put out that many wounds w/ no specials. It also takes 9 bolters to get you a SM missile launcher. They are less survivable, but not really much less than a prince when you take into account all the s3/4 shots that plink down a prince.

What about a combination of Princes and Grinders? I've seen it mentioned that they shouldn't be mixed, though I don't quite get why that is myself. Of course I think something like 1 prince and 2 Grinders would be better than having one large and slow target to be little more than a magnet. I suppose with wings it could lead the vanguard with the fiends, taking the attention that'd be better off focused on them.

Thanks for all the help so far, this is quite useful.

I think not mixing DP's and SG's works in favour of the SG.
By taking more of them your enemy has to split their anti-tank fire.
I imagine the Dp's wont attract anti-tank fire over a SG.


Im also just starting up a mono-slaanesh army, yes taking a mono god army can be tough to play but I thinks its fun to do so you should definately go for it.

I would probably go for 3 Soulgrinders without any upgrades, just using fleet to get into combat and wreck vehicles/troops.

Main reason I would go SG's over princes for slaanesh is that if I was sticking with a fluffy slaanesh theme I would give the princes mark of slaanesh which is a bit useless, and having a couple of str10 beasties running about comes in handy.

calypso2ts wrote:

I wish people would stop propagating these myths. First, a Grinder has a statistially identical chance to Destroy/Explode an AV 11 (slightly better chance for glancing damage results due to Gaze) vehicle as a Tzeetch Prince and a grinder is strictly BETTER against AV 12+.

Second, the chance to kill a grinder in 1 s8 shot is ~7% (w/o cover). The chance to fail 4 straight saves on a Tzeetch Prince is 6.25%. It takes 9 bolters to put out that many wounds w/ no specials. It also takes 9 bolters to get you a SM missile launcher. They are less survivable, but not really much less than a prince when you take into account all the s3/4 shots that plink down a prince.

True. However, I believe that due to it being the only vehicle in the entire army, coupled with it's BS and it's awkward shape which sometimes limits the availability of cover is just one-too-many-a-nail in the thing's coffin.

Iranna.

It certainly is a struggle to get some cover for a soulgrinder sometimes. Depends on the terrain you have access to I spose.

Which is why I ran all those numbers w/o cover. The unluckyness of a 1 hit kill and the large DS footprint (with potential to be immobilized) are legitimate.

The others (including the BS 3 argument which is total balderdash as a downside given the entire context of the Tongue profile) represent a 'well known' and patently false popular opinion.