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Hello,

I've decided I'll get back into Warhammer 40k about being away from it for years, don't even know the rules anymore so I'm back to square one. I'm also looking for the evil type army because they're more interesting to me.

Please don't take into account the size of the army or the cost when factoring in noob worthiness. Complexity of the rules, difficulty of painting, likeliness of a noob winning (most important factor in my opinion), etc, are fair game! Thanks.

I say CSM. Fewer models to purchase, assemble, and paint, and they have relatively forgiving units. Also, by the time you get finished with your army, it's going to have a new codex, which means that your opponents will have a worse understanding of how your army works than if you brought basically anything else.

Agreed with Ailaros...also, you get to paint the most skulls...which is always a plus...

CSM, but wait for the new codex

Necrons atm. Current chaos marines suck so badly that it isn't even fun anymore.
Traitor Guard is of course also an option, although a somewhat expensive one.

CSM, borrow a codex for now, and then get the new one when it comes out (I would also wait to paint until the new dex is out, let it inspire you).

Orks, they are pretty cheap if you get AOBR.

Jihadnik wrote:Agreed with Ailaros...also, you get to paint the most skulls...which is always a plus...

Haha I like it.

chaos marines suck so badly that it isn't even fun anymore.

That wouldn't be cool... I like to win Anyone else have trouble winning with them?

At any rate it seems like most people favor CSM.

From the examples you've provided, I would pick Orks. Easy to get the hang of, quite a few lists you can try out (there aren't that many unpopular units) and lots of customisation opportunities if you like the painting and modelling side. The only drawback is that Ork armies tend to be big, so they can be time-consuming to paint.

I would say that Orks are your best option. They're competitive, they allow you to play a variety of builds and they're more forgiving of a sloppy or quick paint job. They also give you a lot of potential for conversions and customizations later on.

If you want to win, avoid Chaos Space Marines. I don't play Chaos Space Marines myself, but every CSM player that I have ever met, almost met or overheard talking about their army says that they aren't fun to play and that they're barely competitive.

SkaerKrow wrote:I would say that Orks are your best option. They're competitive, they allow you to play a variety of builds and they're more forgiving of a sloppy or quick paint job. They also give you a lot of potential for conversions and customizations later on.

If you want to win, avoid Chaos Space Marines. I don't play Chaos Space Marines myself, but every CSM player that I have ever met, almost met or overheard talking about their army says that they aren't fun to play and that they're barely competitive.

I'll just assume the people that voted CSM didn't read the initial post then... I suppose they could be awesome in the upcoming codex though.

Traitor Guard.

Go on, do it.

CSM can still win games. Any codex can.

Plus Plague marines are one of the best basic troops choices out there.

CSM all the way. With fearless units, and swiss army knife obliterators, the CSM player doesn't exactly have to wrack their brain every game trying to solve a problem, they just pray to the dice gods.

Nids are sweet but have a high learning curve and very little room for error. I dont win with mine much but its still fun throwing swarms of bugs at my opponents.

Id say orks are a great evil army.They have 4 very different play styles which can be competitive :Battlewagon,Kanwall,greentide,Mech.Battlewagon orks are really strong and only require 3-5 battlewagons and 2 black reach boxes.Then you can get some bits to make shoots if you wanna go that way with the boys and some powerklaws for your nobs.I run mine with 4 wagons but ive seen others do well with 3 or 5 wagons .It all depends on what else you wanna fit in your army for support(loota,buggies,burnas,Flashgits .........dont use flashgits....ever)

With your qualifications, Orks sound like the best bet.

If you are willing for a steeper learning curve, then I'd suggest Dark Eldar. They are definitely a finesse army, but they have a lot of fun builds that are fairly competitive. I also think they have the coolest models in the 40K range right now.

gward wrote:

SkaerKrow wrote:I would say that Orks are your best option. They're competitive, they allow you to play a variety of builds and they're more forgiving of a sloppy or quick paint job. They also give you a lot of potential for conversions and customizations later on.

If you want to win, avoid Chaos Space Marines. I don't play Chaos Space Marines myself, but every CSM player that I have ever met, almost met or overheard talking about their army says that they aren't fun to play and that they're barely competitive.

I'll just assume the people that voted CSM didn't read the initial post then... I suppose they could be awesome in the upcoming codex though.

Wait, so a few people say they suck, and you're going to ignore 41% of the votes based on that?! Why are we giving you feedback if you're going to ignore 41%, 30 some votes, because 3 people said they're wrong? Maybe I think Orks are too predictable and the new wave seems to be a growing interest in CSM. Maybe the players that stuck with CSM, that I know, all have awesome forces that kick tail (which is true, the best list as far as record and awesomeness in our local club IS a CSM list). Don't make a poll if you aren't going to pay it any heed. If all you want is a few opinions, don't yank our chain and ignore our input... [/rant at OP silliness and gullibility].

I'm not voting.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Not everyone has fifteen armies. Pick the army YOU like the most for ever and for always, or in two years you'll be on eBay trying to sell that lame army that you never liked that much, but started playing because it was "powerful" or "easy" (neither of which might be true in a year and a new codex) - and that's assuming you don't just drop the hobby again in disgust.

Follow your instincts. Go with the playstyle, aesthetic, and fluff you enjoy. If it's a hard army... so what? You'll learn.

Necrons and Dark Eldar are the most competitive of the armies you have listed, However Dark Eldar are probably one of the hardest armies to master. Necrons require a learning curve, and a good list to win. It's very easy to get distracted by the toys in the Necron Dex.


I'd say go without something you don't mind painting, and enjoy the lore, as well.

Chaos Daemons ; Terrible from a competitive stand point (12th-13th out of 14?). MIGHT see a bit of a come back if some of the rumored 6th edition deep striking stuff makes it into the rules. Basically one of the worst 3 armies in the game at the moment though. New codex is a year out, at least.

Chaos Space Marine; Mediocre at the moment. Somewhere on the lower end of the middle in terms of competitive hierarchy. (Lets say 10th best out of 14) The competitive builds are all hard core rhino/melta spam with plague marine, demon princes and obliterators. Due for a new codex in the near-ish future (May/June or the fall), so it will be largely a blank slate for both you and your opponents. Expect a TON of band wagon-ing if they are good though. Easy-ish to paint and collect. Lots of ebay rhinos and troops you can scoop up fairly cheap. Tons of conversion opportunities and possible legions to play.

Dark Eldar; Solid army. (4th-5th out of 14). Not easy to learn with, not cheap and super spammy at the moment. If you don't want to paint 5 man units with blaster and like 8 venoms and 3 ravagers...I'd suggest passing. Their codex is fairly new (year and a half old?) so they won't be getting a new book for 4+ more years. They may have been built with 6th edition in mind, so they should make the edition change pretty well. Likely to be a 'solid' army for a couple of years at least.

Necrons; Brand new. Decently competitive (5th-6th out of 14). Lots of different builds seem playable and they are pretty new, so people haven't "figured them out" yet. Easy to paint and fairly easy to learn with. You won't find many deals on ebay or trading sites though, as they are still kind of flavor of the month.

Orks; Super old codex with no update rumored for at least a year to a year and a half. Surprisingly competitive for their age, and no one really knows why they constantly place fairly well in tournament play. Probably 7th out of 14, right smack in the middle of the competitive list. Super easy to learn with, fairly easy to paint, it's almost criminal how easy it is to pick up cheap stuff on ebay. You can get 1500 points of infantry and enough kopters to convert into bikes/buggies for like $100 US. The edition change could go either way for these guys though, and people know how to fight orks, as they are pretty much the most common Xenos army.

Tyranids; MEH. Worst 5th edition codex so far, partially because the book is poor, partly because they just don't work in this edition. Some hope for 6th that they will get better but I wouldn't hold my breath. At best they will be "average" if the new edition plays to their strengths. Codex is fairly recent so an update is 2+ years off at least. I'd rank them around 9th or 10th out of 14 competitively. Surprisingly they are easy to learn to play with, and do fairly well against poor to average opponents, but good players will laugh you off the table every time. Also have 2-3 hard counter match ups (against GK, SW and DE in particular) that are as close to auto-losses as this edition can get. Should be able to get cheap stuff on ebay due to a lot of pissed of Nid players selling their armies.

Personally, I'd suggest orks or chaos. Decent armies ATM, due for updates soon-ish and cheap and easy to collect and paint with lots of coolness and modelling opportunities.

Wait, so a few people say they suck, and you're going to ignore 41% of the votes based on that?! Why are we giving you feedback if you're going to ignore 41%, 30 some votes, because 3 people said they're wrong? Maybe I think Orks are too predictable and the new wave seems to be a growing interest in CSM. Maybe the players that stuck with CSM, that I know, all have awesome forces that kick tail (which is true, the best list as far as record and awesomeness in our local club IS a CSM list). Don't make a poll if you aren't going to pay it any heed. If all you want is a few opinions, don't yank our chain and ignore our input... [/rant at OP silliness and gullibility].

Who said anything about ignoring? Numerous people have said CSM is not competitive and I said in the initial post that being able to win was the most important factor to me..... Just because I made a poll doesn't mean I'll choose the one with the highest number of votes.

Carnage43 wrote:Chaos Daemons ; Terrible from a competitive stand point (12th-13th out of 14?). MIGHT see a bit of a come back if some of the rumored 6th edition deep striking stuff makes it into the rules. Basically one of the worst 3 armies in the game at the moment though. New codex is a year out, at least.

Chaos Space Marine; Mediocre at the moment. Somewhere on the lower end of the middle in terms of competitive hierarchy. (Lets say 10th best out of 14) The competitive builds are all hard core rhino/melta spam with plague marine, demon princes and obliterators. Due for a new codex in the near-ish future (May/June or the fall), so it will be largely a blank slate for both you and your opponents. Expect a TON of band wagon-ing if they are good though. Easy-ish to paint and collect. Lots of ebay rhinos and troops you can scoop up fairly cheap. Tons of conversion opportunities and possible legions to play.

Dark Eldar; Solid army. (4th-5th out of 14). Not easy to learn with, not cheap and super spammy at the moment. If you don't want to paint 5 man units with blaster and like 8 venoms and 3 ravagers...I'd suggest passing. Their codex is fairly new (year and a half old?) so they won't be getting a new book for 4+ more years. They may have been built with 6th edition in mind, so they should make the edition change pretty well. Likely to be a 'solid' army for a couple of years at least.

Necrons; Brand new. Decently competitive (5th-6th out of 14). Lots of different builds seem playable and they are pretty new, so people haven't "figured them out" yet. Easy to paint and fairly easy to learn with. You won't find many deals on ebay or trading sites though, as they are still kind of flavor of the month.

Orks; Super old codex with no update rumored for at least a year to a year and a half. Surprisingly competitive for their age, and no one really knows why they constantly place fairly well in tournament play. Probably 7th out of 14, right smack in the middle of the competitive list. Super easy to learn with, fairly easy to paint, it's almost criminal how easy it is to pick up cheap stuff on ebay. You can get 1500 points of infantry and enough kopters to convert into bikes/buggies for like $100 US. The edition change could go either way for these guys though, and people know how to fight orks, as they are pretty much the most common Xenos army.

Tyranids; MEH. Worst 5th edition codex so far, partially because the book is poor, partly because they just don't work in this edition. Some hope for 6th that they will get better but I wouldn't hold my breath. At best they will be "average" if the new edition plays to their strengths. Codex is fairly recent so an update is 2+ years off at least. I'd rank them around 9th or 10th out of 14 competitively. Surprisingly they are easy to learn to play with, and do fairly well against poor to average opponents, but good players will laugh you off the table every time. Also have 2-3 hard counter match ups (against GK, SW and DE in particular) that are as close to auto-losses as this edition can get. Should be able to get cheap stuff on ebay due to a lot of pissed of Nid players selling their armies.

Personally, I'd suggest orks or chaos. Decent armies ATM, due for updates soon-ish and cheap and easy to collect and paint with lots of coolness and modelling opportunities.

Holy crap thanks for the info. Very informative.

So right now I'm torn between Necrons or Orks. I think the Necrons lore is the coolest by far.

Lobukia wrote:Wait, so a few people say they suck, and you're going to ignore 41% of the votes based on that?! Why are we giving you feedback if you're going to ignore 41%, 30 some votes, because 3 people said they're wrong? Maybe I think Orks are too predictable and the new wave seems to be a growing interest in CSM. Maybe the players that stuck with CSM, that I know, all have awesome forces that kick tail (which is true, the best list as far as record and awesomeness in our local club IS a CSM list). Don't make a poll if you aren't going to pay it any heed. If all you want is a few opinions, don't yank our chain and ignore our input... [/rant at OP silliness and gullibility].

It's easy to click a button on a poll, less so to explain your reason for doing so. I've seen compelling arguments in this thread for why the OP should choose other armies, I haven't seen any for why he should choose Chaos Space Marines. Just because a guy at your club wins with Chaos Space Marines doesn't make them competitive. The winningest player in my club runs Chaos Daemons, that doesn't mean that they're a universally viable army. It's his thread, not yours, and how he handles that thread is his own business.

For me its Necrons right now, as they are slightly cheaper to get hold than Orks. (Well depending on the builds, could be a lot cheaper.)

CSM are suffering atm, however when they get their new book, they'd switch in as my top choice for a beginner, as .. well Marines. Chaos flavour or not.

If money isn't a factor, I personally suggest a large Ork horde, part of getting into the game is fun factor, and it doesn't get much more fun than sending a ton of boys at the enemy.

Whatever you do, don't play Chaos. That's just shooting yourself in the foot. You might as well play Space Marines if you're going to do that. Despite what too many think, 3+ saves will not make you a good player.

I can say from personal experience that DE is one of the best armies for a beginner. You'll quickly learn how to avoid carelessness and how to avoid taking armor save rolls. I could banter on and on about this.
Necrons are pretty cool too, and Orks are great if you're into that kind of silliness.

Chaos Grey Knights

Dark Eldar; Solid army. (4th-5th out of 14). Not easy to learn with, not cheap and super spammy at the moment. If you don't want to paint 5 man units with blaster and like 8 venoms and 3 ravagers...I'd suggest passing. Their codex is fairly new (year and a half old?) so they won't be getting a new book for 4+ more years. They may have been built with 6th edition in mind, so they should make the edition change pretty well. Likely to be a 'solid' army for a couple of years at least.

Necrons; Brand new. Decently competitive (5th-6th out of 14). Lots of different builds seem playable and they are pretty new, so people haven't "figured them out" yet. Easy to paint and fairly easy to learn with. You won't find many deals on ebay or trading sites though, as they are still kind of flavor of the month.

I personally think that Necrons are more competitive than Dark Eldar.

I'd suggest Chaos using either Space Wolf or Blood Angel codex depending on which better suits you choice of legion/warband/other bunch of power armoured guys. Chaos gives you plenty of conversion potential, spikes and painting opportunities, the SM codex's give you a competitive edge.

I'm a pretty big fan of the nids. As far as evil goes they eat planets and don't afraid of anything. They also shoot bugs that try to eat people from their guns. Can't really get much more evil than that.

However as stated before their learning curve is pretty high but once you get used to them you'll have fun stomping matches with a good tactic. They also have a fair number of options for what to put in your army and some of the most unique models out there. I win most of my games when playing with them now.

DE would be fun as a first army, but as others have said they are difficult to learn, although incredibly fun to play once you have. Tabling an ork horde in three turns is hilarious, although there are some key things you need to know when playing DE. Check Thor's articles on DE tactica.
That said, I voted orks. Utterly hilarious and surprisingly competitive. The important thing is though that it's your choice. Go with what you like best.