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I think that in 6th edition you should be able to throw grenades so if i throw one the enemy unit needs to take a moral check if they fail they flee if they pass they can chose to stay or flee as well as that the grenades would only scater d6 what do you think

Well I like the idea of my 50-man blob squad being able to throw 50 3" Blasts...

one use only and only1i in every 5 can

5 man squad 1 grenade
10 man 2 grenade

This idea comes up all the time, grenades are fine as they are, no need to change them.

no they are not in the books they constantly destroy things

So? It would be OP. If you care that much make a specific grenade that can be taken as an upgrade since there are already like 3 different kinds of grenades in the game.

I'm in the camp of "grenades are largely fine as they are" - there would be a lot of re-balancing/costing needed, but also with a side helping of "lets not make Tyranids any worse".

Not again...

Grenades are fine as they are. Throwing them is just an awful idea.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Not again...

Grenades are fine as they are. Throwing them is just an awful idea.

+1

grenades are only useful for targets that do not move, which is why they are used on units in cover. The troops leave cover to avoid the grenades. Further pistols have a range of 6-12" which equates to 50-100 meters. I find it unlikely that most troops would be able to throw a grenade that far.

So if people for some reason think grenades should be able to be thrown I would only support something like.
"Grenades can be thrown at a unit in cover within 6", they do no damage but for the rest of the turn the unit cannot count a cover save or cover in assault. "

Exergy wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Not again...

Grenades are fine as they are. Throwing them is just an awful idea.

+1

grenades are only useful for targets that do not move, which is why they are used on units in cover. The troops leave cover to avoid the grenades. Further pistols have a range of 6-12" which equates to 50-100 meters. I find it unlikely that most troops would be able to throw a grenade that far.

So if people for some reason think grenades should be able to be thrown I would only support something like.
"Grenades can be thrown at a unit in cover within 6", they do no damage but for the rest of the turn the unit cannot count a cover save or cover in assault. "

I never thought of it as that long, I always counted 12" as about 25 to 30 meters. It's supposed to represent a distance where the weapon is accurate enough to give a reasonable hit chance. But to each his own.

There is no set scale to WH. You try and set the scale for one thing like pistol and shooting ranges, and it completely screws up things like vehicle speed and weapon maximum ranges.

Bookwrack wrote:There is no set scale to WH. You try and set the scale for one thing like pistol and shooting ranges, and it completely screws up things like vehicle speed and weapon maximum ranges.

The scale doesn't have to be linear, it could be exponential. Eg. 1-2 inches is 5 feet, 2-3 inches is 7.5 feet, 3-4 inches is 11.3 feet, 4-5 inches is 16.9 feet...

It's easier to say there's no realism to WH rather than no scale. There's definitely scale. The scale is just unrealistic. It needs to be, in order to represent shooting and vehicles and foot-troops on the same board.

Or one can give weapons some huge random range that will surely be measured. I'm thinking something deathstrikey, something near 960".

But returning to the grenades they really need to stay the way they are. Giving boost to the more powerful and changing near to nothing for weaker factions is not a good direction.

No, they are fine as they are. The books claim many things, and if they where all true, the game would be a very different one.

I would rather keep the mechanic the same but add more kinds of grenades. Why can I slap a krak grenade on a vehicle but not some giant monster?

Jerjare wrote:I would rather keep the mechanic the same but add more kinds of grenades. Why can I slap a krak grenade on a vehicle but not some giant monster?

Because massive hulking monsters are always moving and aren't affected in the same way as a vehicle?

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Jerjare wrote:I would rather keep the mechanic the same but add more kinds of grenades. Why can I slap a krak grenade on a vehicle but not some giant monster?

Because massive hulking monsters are always moving and aren't affected in the same way as a vehicle?

So are giant robots but that doesnt stop infantry from stuffing a melta bomb up their tailpipe

Also voting for grenades to work vs mcs.

Jerjare wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Jerjare wrote:I would rather keep the mechanic the same but add more kinds of grenades. Why can I slap a krak grenade on a vehicle but not some giant monster?

Because massive hulking monsters are always moving and aren't affected in the same way as a vehicle?

So are giant robots but that doesnt stop infantry from stuffing a melta bomb up their tailpipe

As in, you can't roll to penetrate an MC, and that blowing out a chunk of monster doesn't normally stop it from omnomnoming you.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Jerjare wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Jerjare wrote:I would rather keep the mechanic the same but add more kinds of grenades. Why can I slap a krak grenade on a vehicle but not some giant monster?

Because massive hulking monsters are always moving and aren't affected in the same way as a vehicle?

So are giant robots but that doesnt stop infantry from stuffing a melta bomb up their tailpipe

As in, you can't roll to penetrate an MC, and that blowing out a chunk of monster doesn't normally stop it from omnomnoming you.

True, maybe kraks and melta bombs could strike last, only hit on a 6+, and simply deal a single str 6/8 hit

I'd say just let them hit on 6+ - that's an 8.3r% chance of a single wound, which has a 2/3 chance of being saved anyways.

chrisrawr wrote:I'd say just let them hit on 6+ - that's an 8.3r% chance of a single wound, which has a 2/3 chance of being saved anyways.

I think this is a reasonable idea.

It's very fluffy and 'Starship Troopers' to blow a hole in a giant bug, throw in a bomb, and run like hell.

DoW

Grenades as they are in the rules are also partially represented by close-combat attacks. So, if by some miracle your Imperial Guard Veteran manages to kill a Tyranid Warrior in close combat, maybe he did blow a hole in it's carapace, throw in a grenade, and run away. And then there's the ability to use grenades to blow holes in vehicles, I could see plenty of scenario special rules written that require the use of grenades to demolish structures/blow through walls/etc. if you really want to be able to blow more stuff up.

The only reasons anyone has ever written grenades that are thrown as blast weapons are to make thermonuclear hand grenades in Apocalypse and to get laughs out of a Monty Python joke in the Black Templars Codex. Blast weapon grenades would be pretty broken.

AnomanderRake wrote:The only reasons anyone has ever written grenades that are thrown as blast weapons are to make thermonuclear hand grenades in Apocalypse and to get laughs out of a Monty Python joke in the Black Templars Codex. Blast weapon grenades would be pretty broken.

Eh?

Enlighten me.

I believe he's referring to Vortex grenades (hand-held Vortex missile) and the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch (count to 3, not 5!).

In regular 40k it's pretty clear that a blob of 50 guardsmen all throwing S3 small blasts would be amazing, although completely overpowered.

If only 1 in 5 models could throw, the range was 6" and Str2 AP-, Blast... maybe. But probably not.

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:I believe he's referring to Vortex grenades (hand-held Vortex missile) and the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch (count to 3, not 5!).

In regular 40k it's pretty clear that a blob of 50 guardsmen all throwing S3 small blasts would be amazing, although completely overpowered.

If only 1 in 5 models could throw, the range was 6" and Str2 AP-, Blast... maybe. But probably not.

DoW

Actually he's referring to the Holy Orb of Antioch.

Kain wrote:Actually he's referring to the Holy Orb of Antioch.

Actually I'm not terribly familar with Black Templars. The Holy Hand Grenade is the Monty Python version.

DoW

It would be *slightly* less broken if we went to the good old days of paying for grenades.

Not much, but still...

BlapBlapBlap wrote:It would be *slightly* less broken if we went to the good old days of paying for grenades.

Not much, but still...

It does seem stupid that conscripts get grenades but entire swathes of assault armies do not. Would make Xenos codexes a lot more competative if they could buy grenades.