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Howdy all, yet another list idea I'm working on that utilizes no dedicated assault (wraiths/lyches) in favor of firepower....

HQ
-----
Overlord - Scythe, CCB - 180 pts
Overlord - Scythe, Weave, MSS, Phaeron, Rez Orb - 180 pts
Court 1: 2x Destroteks w/ 1x pulse, 1x LightningTek, Lord w/ MSS, Scythe, orb - 195 pts
Court 1: 2x Destroteks w/ 1x pulse, 1x Despairtek w/ veil, 1x Lightningtek - 185 pts

Elites
--------
Triarch Stalker - Heat Ray - 150 pts
Triarch Stalker - Heat Ray - 150 pts

Troops
-----------
5x Warriors (2x HoD) - Ghost Ark - 180 pts
8x Warriors (2x HoDl) - 104 pts
7x Immortals - Gauss (Phaeron, LightningTek, Veiltek) - 119 pts
7x Immortals - Tesla - (Orblord, Lightningtek) - 119 pts

Heavy
--------
Annihilation Barge - 90 pts
Annihilation Barge - 90 pts
Annihilation Barge - 90 pts

Total: 1852 pts

List Thoughts: Holy shooting! Lots of lances, lots of melta, lots of pewpew all around.

Still lookin for feedback

For a shooty list, I'm not to convinced about the despairtek or tremortek. I think you need to maximize your shooting. I'd go for 4x lances + 1x Pulse for each Royal Court instead. The tremorstave is not nearly as effective without the WW C'tan and the abyssal staff is hard to pull off. But 8 twin-linked S8 shots is great!

Also, in a shooty list, the troops is actually an integral part of the offense. I feel that tesla weaponry would fit them better due to the increased range and the twin-linked capability of the stalkers. I would take 2 warriors in the ghost arks and 2 immortals for the foot soldiers. Now how to pay for all those units? You may need to sacrifice 1 stalker or 1 AB. Personally, I'd get rid of 1 stalker.

I'd probably go something like this:


HQ
-----
Overlord - Scythe, CCB - 180 pts
Overlord - Scythe, CCB - 180 pts
Court 1: 4x Destroteks w/ pulse - 160 pts
Court 1: 4x Destroteks w/ pulse - 160 pts

Elites
--------
Triarch Stalker - Heat Ray - 150 pts

Troops
-----------
5x Warriors (2x HOD's) - Ghost ark - 180 pts
5x Warriors (2x HOD's) - Ghost ark - 180 pts
7x Immortals (2x HOD's) - Tesla - 119 pts
7x Immortals (2x HOD's) - Tesla - 119 pts

Fast Attack
---------------
5x Tomb Blades - Gauss - 100 pts
5x Tomb Blades - Gauss - 100 pts

Heavy
--------
Annihilation Barge - 90 pts
Annihilation Barge - 90 pts
Annihilation Barge - 90 pts

Total: 1898 pts


You still have 102pts leftover. You can get another 5x Tomb Blades or bulk up on your troops.

I like jy2's list.
However, I would build upon that and find some kind of dedicated anti- armor, for 2000 points, you are a little light on anti armor, strength 7 and 8 weapons can pop transports sure, but the only thing you have that can actually do something to av 14 would be the CCBs, and the stalker's heat ray

I partially agree with jy2 here Zid, I would max out the tomb blades by dropping the ark, then going full destructeks. 10 destruks, 5 5 man warrior squads, maybe if you have points make them immortals. But then I would also use the points from the dropped arks to give a 5 man squad of tomb blades particle beamers. 5 str 6 templates can lay down a HUGE amount of wounds on squads that you get to disembark via breaking their vehicle. I would probably do the same thing as jy2s list..except do this instead:


HQ
-----
Overlord - Scythe, CCB - 180 pts
Overlord - Scythe, CCB - 180 pts
Court 1: 4x Destroteks w/ pulse - 160 pts
Court 1: 4x Destroteks w/ pulse - 160 pts

Elites
--------
Triarch Stalker - Heat Ray - 150 pts
Triarch Stalker - Heat Ray - 150 pts

Troops
-----------
6x Immortals (2x HOD's) - Tesla - 102 pts
6x Immortals (2x HOD's) - Tesla - 102 pts
6x Immortals (2x HOD's) - Tesla - 102 pts
6x Immortals (2x HOD's) - Tesla - 102 pts



Fast Attack
---------------
5x Tomb Blades - Gauss - 100 pts
5x Tomb Blades - Gauss - 100 pts
5x Tomb Blades - Particle Beamers - 150 pts

Heavy
--------
Annihilation Barge - 90 pts
Annihilation Barge - 90 pts
Annihilation Barge - 90 pts

=2008, so then...i dunno where to drop 8 points except for another immortal. but I personally like this list more due to its added tomb blades, and I dont like ghost arks in all honesty.

I agree with Jy2, although I am a fan of massed troops for a lot of reasons. For one, it allows you to smoke infantry and mech, for two, more scoring resilience, for three, more milage out of those stalkers.

The lance is the best weapon for those crypteks, IMO as others have said. I love those things.

Otherwise though, nice looking list. You have a lot of flexibility and firepower.

@Jy2: I agree with the HoT. However, I still want to stay with at least 1 HoD in each ark. Reason being I love to have some sort of flamer, and HoD's are great against things like Paladins and hordes. Shoot em with the Stalker, then shoot em with the HoD! good chance to kill quite a few. But I agree I need more AT, and good idea with the immo's!

@Iguy: Honestly, those 4 are more than enough. AV14 isn't all that common

@Clauss: See, thats what I was trying to avoid; my old list maxes out on Wraiths and Destroteks. Destroteks are nice, but create a one dimensional army. I'd agree with Ark's, cept with the embarked warriors, thats 20 or so (possibly twin linked) shots per barge. Could put some hurt down and adds some mobility. Which is why I wanted warrior foot squads to make use of reanomation... They can also be used to provide cover for my more important elements (a-barges)

@Reece: Thanks!

List is updated using some of your suggestions

Any last minute suggestions? I'm purchasing models based on this list

Tomb blades are absolutely horrible. Use destroyers instead.

Surfboard66 wrote:Tomb blades are absolutely horrible. Use destroyers instead.

Destroyers are far too expensive, I vam tbhinking of cutting the tomb blades for a third immortal squad w/ destroteks

No tomb blades. They may be better in 6th, but now they are not worth it.

For a max shooting list, I'd recommend two paths:

The Path of the Warrior. Several maxed-out warrior blobs with orb lords and half the number in ghost arks. Ghost arks add warriors every turn, while casualties come back on 4+. Typical phalanx - move forward and shoot everything in sight, preferable at double-tap. This list can be supported by stalkers for the targeting arrays and spyder-scarab combo to tie down assault squads and threaten vehicles. HQs of your choice. Massed lancetek courts in relative safety in the arks. A couple should be pulseteks to mess with enemy shooting.

The Path of the Immortal. Several maxed out immortals with orb lords to keep them coming back. Tesla and tremorteks to slow down infantry armies. Blasters and lanceteks to be effective against vehicles. A curious variant is to have veilteks with a couple of the immortal squads to DS around and pop vehicles from the back arcs. Nemesor comes to mind for tank-hunter. Otherwise, run a phalanx and have some counter assault or tarpit.

Overall I do not believe a purely shooty list will cut it competitively. We just don't have the IG firepower for a crippling 1st-2nd turn shooting. Also, we lack the range to play the gunline. Finally, a lot of our stuff is relatively costly because of its toughness and durability (high T, RP), which means we pay more per shot.

I would not buy models until at least a few games with the list with proxies. What if it sucks so bad that the models just end up collecting dust?

Necrontyr40k wrote:No tomb blades. They may be better in 6th, but now they are not worth it.

For a max shooting list, I'd recommend two paths:

The Path of the Warrior. Several maxed-out warrior blobs with orb lords and half the number in ghost arks. Ghost arks add warriors every turn, while casualties come back on 4+. Typical phalanx - move forward and shoot everything in sight, preferable at double-tap. This list can be supported by stalkers for the targeting arrays and spyder-scarab combo to tie down assault squads and threaten vehicles. HQs of your choice. Massed lancetek courts in relative safety in the arks. A couple should be pulseteks to mess with enemy shooting.

The Path of the Immortal. Several maxed out immortals with orb lords to keep them coming back. Tesla and tremorteks to slow down infantry armies. Blasters and lanceteks to be effective against vehicles. A curious variant is to have veilteks with a couple of the immortal squads to DS around and pop vehicles from the back arcs. Nemesor comes to mind for tank-hunter. Otherwise, run a phalanx and have some counter assault or tarpit.

Overall I do not believe a purely shooty list will cut it competitively. We just don't have the IG firepower for a crippling 1st-2nd turn shooting. Also, we lack the range to play the gunline. Finally, a lot of our stuff is relatively costly because of its toughness and durability (high T, RP), which means we pay more per shot.

I would not buy models until at least a few games with the list with proxies. What if it sucks so bad that the models just end up collecting dust?

See, that pigeonhole mentality is what I'm avoiding. I know certain units aren't found to be competative, but I believe that va necron shooty list can really work. I'm on the fence with the blades, but the rest of the list I think is very solid

Necrontyr40k wrote:No tomb blades. They may be better in 6th, but now they are not worth it.

Is the Tombs Blades vastly superior movement not a benefit over Warrior & Immortals? Being that they come with TL weapons and only cost 15 pts more than 5 immortals, I can see many good reasons to take them. Sure they have cons, +4, max unit size of 5 and take a FA slot.

OT - Zid I think Jy2 has given you the best advice for your desired build, one Stalker is enough for your Lanceteks to reliably pop a tank and as most of the List is already TL, two isn't needed.

Nakor The BlueRider wrote:

Necrontyr40k wrote:No tomb blades. They may be better in 6th, but now they are not worth it.

Is the Tombs Blades vastly superior movement not a benefit over Warrior & Immortals? Being that they come with TL weapons and only cost 15 pts more than 5 immortals, I can see many good reasons to take them. Sure they have cons, +4, max unit size of 5 and take a FA slot.

OT - Zid I think Jy2 has given you the best advice for your desired build, one Stalker is enough for your Lanceteks to reliably pop a tank and as most of the List is already TL, two isn't needed.

Hmm.... Perhaps this is true! Then should I cut the second stalker for another ark + more warriors on foot, or what? I just like the ability to twin link multiple targets a turn, as I don't see my entire army shooting at one thing most of the time

What are you going to do with just 5 immortals? Except the blades are not even 3+. Yes, they are fast but where are they going? What is their tactical usefulness? And they are 20 pts base.

If you just want more tesla carbines, get more immortals. The stalkers will TL them anyway.

I'd rather get destroyers for killing marines in the open with that beautiful AP3. Yes, they are nerfed at 2 shots at 24", but at least they cut through marine armor.

If we are talking about a list, we need to have a clear idea how it will play out on the battlefield. What is your battle plan with that list?

Well, with boost and shadow vanes, they get a 2+ cove save, plus still getting reanimation.

They are also less than half the price of a destroyer atm.
grab the Neb. Scopes, and you have a 2+ cover saving str 5 bs 5 rapid firing monster of a squad, for fairly cheap.

Necrontyr40k wrote:What are you going to do with just 5 immortals? Except the blades are not even 3+. Yes, they are fast but where are they going? What is their tactical usefulness? And they are 20 pts base.

If you just want more tesla carbines, get more immortals. The stalkers will TL them anyway.

I'd rather get destroyers for killing marines in the open with that beautiful AP3. Yes, they are nerfed at 2 shots at 24", but at least they cut through marine armor.

If we are talking about a list, we need to have a clear idea how it will play out on the battlefield. What is your battle plan with that list?

Tomb Blades are far more accurate than Destroyers. If I'm shooting a Stalker at a squad I want to target with Destroyers, then thats just odd. Yes, marines get their 3+, but most of the time they will get a 4+ anyway with cover, and I'll get more hits with the Tomb Blades. 5 Immortals is always a bad idea, dunno who suggested that, I tried em and they sucked it up hard.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

iGuy91 wrote:Well, with boost and shadow vanes, they get a 2+ cove save, plus still getting reanimation.

They are also less than half the price of a destroyer atm.
grab the Neb. Scopes, and you have a 2+ cover saving str 5 bs 5 rapid firing monster of a squad, for fairly cheap.

I would LOVE to get stealth on the Blades, but finding points would be rough. I feel the 3+ cover should be enough in most cases, as I'd probably turbo into position then let loose... of course, that would also give them a 3+ in cover.

I still have not received an answer to my question regarding the overall plan with this shooty list. Once there is a battleplan, I can then see how the blades fit in it.

Regarding the blades, they have the save of a warrior, the speed of a jetbike, a TL tesla, and T4(5). Giving them upgrades can make them significantly better but the cost ratchets up fast as well. So, what do 15 such models do in this list? Do they move 12" and shoot, do they flat out and get the cover save? Are they a big threat somehow to make the opponent spend shots on them? What is their point in the list?

If fully upgraded, they are essentially jetbike immortals with BS5, stealth, and TL, but now they cost 45 pts each - same as a coil wraith.

I can only see the blades in extremely fast and mobile lists, e.g. troops with veilteks, nightscythes, doomscythes. I do not understand their presence in a footslogger list.

I'm just saying for a squad of 5 destroyers you are getting 10 shots at strength 5 ap3
For the same cost, you could get 10 tomb blades, with gauss blasters, and get 20 strength 5 ap 4 shots. ( don't remember if the gauss is also twin linked or not)

But you have a good point, they are kinda a weird fit for a footslogging list. I run one, and mine is filled up with heavy destroyers and scarabs

Necrontyr40k wrote:I still have not received an answer to my question regarding the overall plan with this shooty list. Once there is a battleplan, I can then see how the blades fit in it.

Regarding the blades, they have the save of a warrior, the speed of a jetbike, a TL tesla, and T4(5). Giving them upgrades can make them significantly better but the cost ratchets up fast as well. So, what do 15 such models do in this list? Do they move 12" and shoot, do they flat out and get the cover save? Are they a big threat somehow to make the opponent spend shots on them? What is their point in the list?

If fully upgraded, they are essentially jetbike immortals with BS5, stealth, and TL, but now they cost 45 pts each - same as a coil wraith.

I can only see the blades in extremely fast and mobile lists, e.g. troops with veilteks, nightscythes, doomscythes. I do not understand their presence in a footslogger list.

Well, heres the breakdown of the list:

CCB's - forward pushing units to take out hard targets with cover, fliers, etc.
Destroteks - dedicated AT
Despairtek in barge - Anti heavy infantry, great vs. termis and things
Despairtek w/ veil - gives much needed mobility to my larger warrior squad. Squad will follow around the Ark until they need to be elseware
Ghost ark - Provides cover, keeps larger warrior unit alive, adds more mobility to a slower list
Immortal squads - Great anti-infantry, can also put the hurt on speeders/DE vehicles/stunlock rhinos if needed
Stalkers - prime purpose is to wreck heavy vehicles and great vs other necron lists, also great for tying down things like Blood Talon dreads (BT dread cannot hurt stalkers). Can also bog down hordes, and normal units (PF has a very low chance to wreck it). Secondary purpose is anti-infantry and twin-link engine, his flamers great for twin-linking a bunch of stuff if someone tries to castle
Warriors - small squad is just there to ride around in the ark, score objectives, and provide wounds for the teks. Large squad is a highly mobile, last turn scoring squad, that can throw down a bunch of shots
Annihilation barges - Need I go into this one?
Tomb Blades - Low threat profile, very fast, great diversionary unit. 10 twin linked str 5 gauss shots can do decent damage. These provide even more flexibility and mobility.

Basically the entire list is designed to be highly resilient, and flexible, and the units operate well as a WHOLE not individually (i.e. wraiths, scarabs). 4 very fast units, 1 unit to babysit the troops, lots of AT, and lots of firepower.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

iGuy91 wrote:I'm just saying for a squad of 5 destroyers you are getting 10 shots at strength 5 ap3
For the same cost, you could get 10 tomb blades, with gauss blasters, and get 20 strength 5 ap 4 shots. ( don't remember if the gauss is also twin linked or not)

But you have a good point, they are kinda a weird fit for a footslogging list. I run one, and mine is filled up with heavy destroyers and scarabs

I equate them to running SM bikers in a non-biker list They have their purpose

So after some talking around the interwebz got some valuable feedback from several sources... I edited the list up, but the newly edited list needs some help: Need to find a "purpose" for the Tesla Immortals. Obviously they're anti-infantry, so need to think of what to run with them that compliments that. The warriors are slow, and won't do much damage, so get HoD's for ranged punch. I've tacked in a Phaeron CC beastlord in place of a second CCB; he goes with the Gauss immortals, veiltek, and lightningtek. This becomes a fiercely tough squad to kill, bouncing around blasting the hell out of armored targets. The lightningtek makes people think before charging; while the lord ensures I do some pain. Not to mention the flamer!

I'm thinking a squad of Deathmarks, 2 more teks, and whatever points are left toss in more Immortals to flesh out my squads (or perhaps warriors). Thoughts?

what is hod?

jbsnv wrote:what is hod?

Herald of destruction

I agree - get rid of the CCBs. They have no place in a max shooty list. Your overlords should instead take phaeron and resurrection orbs and get stuck in max squads of gauss immortals or warriors supported by ghost arks that carry lancetek courts. Core of a footshooter list should be:

2x Overlord scythe, phaeron, orb, MSS (weave and shifter optional)
2x court 4x lancetek, 1x pulsetek (all have lances), plus some scythe MSS lords to give to the immortals as optional
2x stalker
20x warriors with ghost ark
20x warriors with ghost ark
extra immortals with gauss
3x annibarges or doomsday arks or doomscythes

With all that 24" weaponry in the rest of the list, I would think doomsday arks are a good choice. They are also excellent against FNP MEQ.

Necrontyr40k wrote:I agree - get rid of the CCBs. They have no place in a max shooty list. Your overlords should instead take phaeron and resurrection orbs and get stuck in max squads of gauss immortals or warriors supported by ghost arks that carry lancetek courts. Core of a footshooter list should be:

2x Overlord scythe, phaeron, orb, MSS (weave and shifter optional)
2x court 4x lancetek, 1x pulsetek (all have lances), plus some scythe MSS lords to give to the immortals as optional
2x stalker
20x warriors with ghost ark
20x warriors with ghost ark
extra immortals with gauss
3x annibarges or doomsday arks or doomscythes

With all that 24" weaponry in the rest of the list, I would think doomsday arks are a good choice. They are also excellent against FNP MEQ.

Issue is ghost arks w/ courts paint a huge "blow me up and take away my main at" sign. Crypteks are uber vunerable, warriors provide them ablative wounds.

I HIGHLY disagree about the ccb. The hardest things for shooty crons I believe will be things like eldar fast skimmers. Ccb can. Sweep and destroy such vehicles easily, getting the contents out to be wrecked with firepower. It also gives me someething reliable against stormravens, dark eldar, marines (ccb sweeps ignore smoke), and various other armies.

I do agree with doomsday arks, I think one would give me a great weapon to annihilate my foes from afar. My issue is that for the cost I can get a warrior squad, anni barge, and have points left for half a hodtek.

The problem with the CCBs is that they get to close in, so they do not benefit from night-fighting. So you are left with an AV13 open-topped vehicle that can get a 4+ cover save if it flats out. In my experience, they get popped first. Now you have a lonely 200 pt overlord unit that eats all the small-arms fire that otherwise would likely be wasted due to range and night-fighting. Maybe that is my meta, but that is what I see with CCBs.

Lanceteks are a priority target, but with 36 range and solar pulses and AV13 behind some hedge cover at 30" away, they should be pretty safe at least for the first 2-3 turns. By turn 3, your shooty list has either blown big holes in the enemy line or it will get eaten anyway. If you stick them with MSU warriors in groups of 2, you lose all your small-arms fire that should be shooting up enemy troops.

I'd say try it and see if it works.

Added an orblord to go with the other immortals, also a second lightningtek. I'm thinking for the last 148 pts... maybe more immortals? Min warriors w/ 2x destroteks? I'd have to cut something to make room...

Still looking for suggestions for the last 148 pts....

Actually, with double Stalkers, replacing an Annihilation Barge with a Doomsday Ark is looking mighty tempting right now...
perhaps get a second Veil-tek with the left over 60 points so your other Immortals can hop around the board, too?

skoffs wrote:Actually, with double Stalkers, replacing an Annihilation Barge with a Doomsday Ark is looking mighty tempting right now...
perhaps get a second Veil-tek with the left over 60 points so your other Immortals can hop around the board, too?

I was thinking that, but the lord with the immortals greatly increases their survivability both in assault and shooting. With tesla weapons they're likely going to blasting at infantry mostly anyway. I find veils are better for gauss immo's to get them close to armor quickly and let loose a volley. Good point on the Ark tho