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Is it me, or is Games Workshop really killing their greatest child by specifically releasing mostly Space Marine stuff, and making them very over powered? (Ie Grey Knights, Blood Angels).

Discuss...

Dont tell me what to do

You support what sells the most.

What a stupidly phrased question.

And, no. they're not killing the child. They're not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. They're selling what sells.

yeah, but thats cylindrical,

the army sells the most, so you make more stuff for it, so more people buy it, so you make better stuff, so people buy more of it.......

and it all started cause they were the cover girl

I'm a bit puzzled over GW's decision to make GKs such an "elite" army, you would think that they would lower the point values of the silver bastards just so you would have to buy more boxes of plastic crack to field a decent army. It seems counter-productive from a business standpoint.

BewareOfTom wrote:yeah, but thats cylindrical,

I suggest you consult a dictionary, because no, it's not, not in any way, shape or form.

If you were talking about blockage of line of sight in 4th edition, then yeah, you'd be right.

This is a 40k discussion, so WHOOSH! Of we go!

Haven't xenos gotten the most releases lately?

Space Marines sell the most of any army. Logically, they would focus more on Marines and their different flavors in order to increase sales.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Haven't xenos gotten the most releases lately?

How so? The codex releases for 5th alternate between a Power Armour army and a non Power Armor army and this is only if you discount sisters of battle. DE got a huge line because they needed the help badly and Necrons got a nice boost too. The GK release seems small only because the entire army is essentially all in 2 boxes. We'll see what the next Power Armor army brings with it.

GW likes Space Marines, they're probably the defining thematic force in 40k.

That said, they are by no means overpowered. There are broken builds in the Space Marine Codex, but most every army has builds nearly as broken (I can fit three Wraithlords into a 1,000pt list. Tell me that doesn't have you s***ing your pants.).

Most of what I take issue with about Games Workshop's fondness for Space Marines was once that they were so much cheaper to build than any other army because they had the most viable all-plastic forces, but with the directions they're taking the Tyranid, Dark Eldar, and Necron ranges I suspect they're trying to make other armies more affordable now.

This isn't new, and I don't believe GW try to intentionally overpower an army - only to make it competitive and exciting. The worst thing that can happen is for the massive effort to be invested in the units, rules and models only to have it released and snubbed the community as not being able to stand up to whatever is out there. I'd be terrified of that myself, so I can see how you can unintionally overcompensate.

But this has been happening since the beginning of 40k time - Space Wolves in 2nd edition able (and I've seen it) to wipe the opposing army off the board with the first mass cyclone volley; Blood Angles in combat turn 1 with turbo boosting Rhinos and then jumping out and charging an incredible distance - and this was before the internet communities began churning out the super optomized lists with croudsoursing.

I belive the marine love started in 2nd ed.
And as this is when they ralised that SM were the only non generic fantasy race in space.(SM were an iconic image for 40k.)

However,at this time ALL races were more evenly supported than they are now.In that all armies
Eldar hade Craftworlds , Chaos had Pantheons, Orks had Klans, and SM had Chapters.

However by 3rd ed the '...we are in the buisness of selling toy soldier to children' ethos was starting to show IMO.
As super men in super armour doing super things is very apealing to children , they get most of the publicity, develpoer time and resources.

And so making the super elite the yard stick evething is judged against, makes the game play rather abstracted.

Pushing the most popular lines of product makes sense for selling un acosiated product.
BUT within a game system ALL armies should be ballanced and supported equaly to deliver the added value of a great game play experiance.

This could be why the percived value for money of 40k is falling perhaps?

sub-zero wrote:I'm a bit puzzled over GW's decision to make GKs such an "elite" army, you would think that they would lower the point values of the silver bastards just so you would have to buy more boxes of plastic crack to field a decent army. It seems counter-productive from a business standpoint.

See, I think they are staying pretty true to the fluff there and not just going for maximum sales, because surely they would indeed lower the point values so people buy more models?

GK are supposed to be elite super badasses, they just made them a bit too super bad ass to be in a balanced game!

Red Comet wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Haven't xenos gotten the most releases lately?

How so? The codex releases for 5th alternate between a Power Armour army and a non Power Armor army and this is only if you discount sisters of battle. DE got a huge line because they needed the help badly and Necrons got a nice boost too. The GK release seems small only because the entire army is essentially all in 2 boxes. We'll see what the next Power Armor army brings with it.

I think you are confusing cause and consequences. The DE release was larger than Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights taken together. The current Necron second-wave only is larger than anything released for those three Marines.

There is an apparent alternating release schedule not because GW has some funny sense of symmetry, but because their pipeline (design to production, etc..) likely only handles one "proper" release each year for 40K. Those little Marine-releases just work well by filling the gaps. But if GW had not released Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights, you wouldn't have gotten a different Xenos army instead. 40K would simply have 3 Codexes less overall.

Red Comet wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Haven't xenos gotten the most releases lately?

How so? The codex releases for 5th alternate between a Power Armour army and a non Power Armor army and this is only if you discount sisters of battle. DE got a huge line because they needed the help badly and Necrons got a nice boost too. The GK release seems small only because the entire army is essentially all in 2 boxes. We'll see what the next Power Armor army brings with it.

you forgot tyranids were recent aswell
im talking about model releases.

Blood angels are not overpowered.

The top three are Space Wolves, Gray Knights, and Imperial Guard.

Blood angels are above vanilla, aka, a bit above the mid tier.

Oh, huh. I don't think I've ever seen this topic come up before.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Blood angels are not overpowered.

Space Marines with army-wide FNP and FC and fast vehicles.
They're not over-powered if you have an army that can withstand being assaulted army-wide by S5 MEQ with power weapons/melta bombs.

Joey wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Blood angels are not overpowered.

Space Marines with army-wide FNP and FC and fast vehicles.
They're not over-powered if you have an army that can withstand being assaulted army-wide by S5 MEQ with power weapons/melta bombs.

So that'd be... any army bar Tau?

Joey wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Blood angels are not overpowered.

Space Marines with army-wide FNP and FC and fast vehicles.
They're not over-powered if you have an army that can withstand being assaulted army-wide by S5 MEQ with power weapons/melta bombs.

You mean like every army? it's not like they have power weapons on everyone.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Joey wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Blood angels are not overpowered.

Space Marines with army-wide FNP and FC and fast vehicles.
They're not over-powered if you have an army that can withstand being assaulted army-wide by S5 MEQ with power weapons/melta bombs.

So that'd be... any army bar Tau?

Or Guard.

lol look at how quickly this turned into a GK bashing thread, though at least Blood Angels got a look in this time too.

Come on people, hop off the hate-bus. Its gotten real old.

Back to the OP, games workshop have always had a lot in the way of space marine releases, ever since before I started playing this game, and that was... 12 years ago? Its their flagship race, of course they will try and flog it as much as they can.

The next few releases are more than likely going to be Chaos (evil space marines), Dark Angels (Homosexual space marines? not an insult, im sure I read that somewhere lol) and ... well, probably Eldar.

And I cant wait for Eldar to come around again, cos I fully expect the codex to be hugely powerful. My craftworld will rise from the etherium and destroy you all.

And I shall feed upon your hate and your tears.

Same as my Grey Knights do now, and my Tyranids. Though thats mostly cos my 'Nids will eat anything.

Of course this is the internet, people will always find some way to complain. Best just to ignore them. Eventually they will go away. At least until it is their army that is considered "Overpowered", at which point they will be the most vocal force in denying that fact. RIght up until they get outmatched by the next new thing.

Seasons change, time passes by, the wheel of time turns.

Zweischneid wrote:

Red Comet wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Haven't xenos gotten the most releases lately?

How so? The codex releases for 5th alternate between a Power Armour army and a non Power Armor army and this is only if you discount sisters of battle. DE got a huge line because they needed the help badly and Necrons got a nice boost too. The GK release seems small only because the entire army is essentially all in 2 boxes. We'll see what the next Power Armor army brings with it.

I think you are confusing cause and consequences. The DE release was larger than Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights taken together. The current Necron second-wave only is larger than anything released for those three Marines.

There is an apparent alternating release schedule not because GW has some funny sense of symmetry, but because their pipeline (design to production, etc..) likely only handles one "proper" release each year for 40K. Those little Marine-releases just work well by filling the gaps. But if GW had not released Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights, you wouldn't have gotten a different Xenos army instead. 40K would simply have 3 Codexes less overall.

You bring up a good point. A lot of the models that were used with the marine armies were already out. BA essentially uses the Space Marine line of models with a few extra additions and not much else. Same goes for Space Wolves.

Wait, GW favors Marines?

Since when? I've only been under a rock for the last 25 years.

I am surprised this thread hasn't been shut down yet. lol.

Baldsmug wrote:I am surprised this thread hasn't been shut down yet. lol.

This.

Can you shut down a cylindrical argument?

Absolutely. And it's ridiculous.

Look at the stuff they've released for those armies.
Look at what they've released for others.
It's obvious.
There isn't even a Codex for SoB even though are still being sold as a playable army. It's ridiculous.