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2017/12/04 17:20:21
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Cmdr_Sune wrote: 9 Acanthrites veiled into cover (although that might be difficult) is a scary thought. Considering the strategem that allows RP for canoptec units. They are also ok in CC and can then just fall back and blast the enemy.
Does the Acanthrites get +1 attack because of their swords? I guess it's not faq:ed since they are FW.
A unit of 6 should be more then enough and will help with being 50% obscured as the unit is a smaller size.
I
I would almost say Acanthrites are almost better at CC then Wraiths due to 4 S5 -3 D1 attacks compared to 3 S5 -1 D1.
T1 Deploy into cover and shoot the Melta, T2 move 11" , shoot the Melta and charge a a unit at T4 or lower for 3+ to wound.
They do get +1 attack for the voidblades as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Klowny wrote: Counterpoint, wraiths now get RP and a 3++ everywhere is better than a no invuln save. You'd need to run a big squad of acanthrites to be survivable, plus they aren't infantry so each model will have to be wholly within and 50% obscured. Wraiths can sit on a critical objective close to scythe T1, soak a huge amount of punishment, RP, charge T2 funza
The difference between them.
Wraiths; 3++ invul, ignore Terrain and enemy models for charging, good at holding units and vehicle in CC. Can now be RP to make them bout 30% more survivable depending on the unit size.
Acanthrites; -1 is no 3++ but they can at least have a 2+ save in cover (if 50% obscured). They are a T4 or lower unit killer. carry a 12 S7 Melta.. Have the fly Keyword so even if in CC with a tough enemy unit they can just fly back and laser cut them to pieces with the Melta. Also have access to RP so probably 25-40% more survivable depending on unit size. Only issue is 60pts per model so having them with a Cryptek for 4+ RP is probably the best way to make sure they survive meaning their mobility mind be hindered for survivability.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/04 17:38:14
Little late to the party I know but here are my thoughts:
Enduring will, unique, but with the enhanced rules in CA:2017 that make ICs even more impossible to hit at range, seems like a trait you'd take on an all in melee warlord like a D-Lord. As that isn't the best use of our HQ slots, will probably not get used much.
Veil of darkness, hey it's the veil of darkness, almost exactly as we imagined it would behave. Made better by the fact that MWBD turns a 9" charge into an 8" charge, 42% chance to make it and even better if you are willing to blow a CP on a reroll. Lychguard get better with a reliable delivery mechanism, but how much is debatable. Now they start to run into 8th ed 1st world problems like all the valuable enemies will be screened, and a 9" bubble is pretty easy to push away from the action. On the bright side you are already on the board, so you can wait for the right time to strike.
Repair subroutines, nice, no real complaints since it turns 2 CP into what are effectively extra units. Since wraiths are tough against everything but smite spam, you can afford to hang onto it until most of the unit is taken out.
Enhanced reanimation protocols, seems pricey, even under the best circumstances it will get you an extra unit per 12 RP checks. For one CP It might be worth it for a hail mary on an expensive unit, but for two it's effect is dwarfed by repair subroutines. You'll get much more effect by spending a single CP to reroll a failed RP check. This falls into the GW is bad at math category of completely useless Stratagems.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/12/05 04:47:47
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I still feel like using CP to give Wraiths RP is unnecessary overkill, like giving Warriors a Ghost Ark AND a Cryptek.
Acanthrites, on the other hand, are the perfect candidate.
Scarabs are so cheap they don't need it.
Spyders, maybe... but no one takes Spyders, so probably not.
Unfortunate the Sentinel & Stalker can't even take it (unit of one, after all).
2017/12/05 10:45:26
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Aranthracites yes, will use it more, as they are nowhere near as durable. Youll be burning CP left and right to keep them rolling RP.
Lets be real, only a small squad size will get cover, so they wont get a 2+ in most cases, and a -1 to hit wont keep them alive long enough to burn RP unless in max squad sizes. I've run 6 wraiths with a nightbringer in a 60 player tournament recently, against nasty lists they will be whittled down over the course of the game, unless its smite spam but theres not much we have in defence of that. BUT, getting to roll RP to clutch back some insanely durable units midgame has FAR greater worth than some glass cannons that will get another shot off then probably die again.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm not saying aranthracites are bad, I just know how useful wraiths are in a game, they shut down really nasty units as they cant kill them. This lets the rest of your guns do the heavy lifting around the board. We already have good guns, canoptek do screen better than damage IMO
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/05 10:47:17
12,000
2017/12/05 10:47:24
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
The fact that wraiths are so survivable is a big bonus to giving them RP. I played a game the other night using the new rules and it was priceless to hear the groan from my opponent when I brought two back after he just dedicated a ton of shooting towards the unit.
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
2017/12/05 11:03:32
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Is there a way we can compare several S6 -3 D 1 shots agaisnt the Wraiths and Acanthrites? Just want to see the average survivability between -1 to hit vs 3++ invul.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lets be real, only a small squad size will get cover, so they wont get a 2+ in most cases, and a -1 to hit wont keep them alive long enough to burn RP unless in max squad sizes. I've run 6 wraiths with a nightbringer in a 60 player tournament recently, against nasty lists they will be whittled down over the course of the game, unless its smite spam but theres not much we have in defence of that. BUT, getting to roll RP to clutch back some insanely durable units midgame has FAR greater worth than some glass cannons that will get another shot off then probably die again.
A lot of terrain that I and the Wargaming group I am apart of use lots of different sized Terrain to give oddly shaped models a 50% obscured for +1 save. We all have our buildings on plywood with Resin-cast rocks and walls too add to the Terrains usefulness as well.
The Acanthrites -1 to hit is the difference of a BS 4+ weapon hitting on a 5+ or not. While a Wraiths will tank anything at the 3++ the Acanthrites make anything BS4 and up nearly 50% worse at Shooting.
Both units do different jobs though. Wraiths are good at holding things up and ruining your oppontents plans while an Acanthrites is probably the most aggressive Canoptek unit we have in that it can kill both Light Vehicles and Transport via 12" S7 Melta and T4 or lower models in CC.
Wraiths prefer being in CC though and the 3++ invul shows it. The 3++ can only do so much when focused fired but if the 3++ is only tanking Several CC attacks then the survivability of the Wraiths improve. Acanthrites are probably better at being shot at as the -1 only applies to shooting and you cannot get +1 in cover if in CC.
My anti-tank is currently 2 Tesseract Arks, unit of 6 Acanthrites and Illuminor Szeras but might swap him for a THGC Triarch Stalker as I have 30 pts spare and can drop another few somewhere else in my current list.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/05 11:24:14
Has anyone figured out how Quantum Sheilding and the new warlord trait interact? The best I can come up with is that the two effects trigger simultaneously so the person whose turn it is picks lol.
Also the relic on named characters?
2017/12/05 15:31:51
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: Has anyone figured out how Quantum Sheilding and the new warlord trait interact? The best I can come up with is that the two effects trigger simultaneously so the person whose turn it is picks lol.
Also the relic on named characters?
It should trigger the QS first, say 2 damage are dealt to your CCB you try to stop it with QS but roll a 3 so the 2 bypasses it. Now you can use the new trait to reduce the damage down to 1 and that makes it through. So beginning of your turn you then use living metal to regain that lost wound.
2017/12/05 17:01:27
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Cmdr_Sune wrote: 9 Acanthrites veiled into cover (although that might be difficult) is a scary thought. Considering the strategem that allows RP for canoptec units. They are also ok in CC and can then just fall back and blast the enemy.
Does the Acanthrites get +1 attack because of their swords? I guess it's not faq:ed since they are FW.
A unit of 6 should be more then enough and will help with being 50% obscured as the unit is a smaller size.
I
I would almost say Acanthrites are almost better at CC then Wraiths due to 4 S5 -3 D1 attacks compared to 3 S5 -1 D1.
T1 Deploy into cover and shoot the Melta, T2 move 11" , shoot the Melta and charge a a unit at T4 or lower for 3+ to wound.
They do get +1 attack for the voidblades as well.Automatically Appended Next Post:
Klowny wrote: Counterpoint, wraiths now get RP and a 3++ everywhere is better than a no invuln save. You'd need to run a big squad of acanthrites to be survivable, plus they aren't infantry so each model will have to be wholly within and 50% obscured. Wraiths can sit on a critical objective close to scythe T1, soak a huge amount of punishment, RP, charge T2 funza
The difference between them.
Wraiths; 3++ invul, ignore Terrain and enemy models for charging, good at holding units and vehicle in CC. Can now be RP to make them bout 30% more survivable depending on the unit size.
Acanthrites; -1 is no 3++ but they can at least have a 2+ save in cover (if 50% obscured). They are a T4 or lower unit killer. carry a 12 S7 Melta.. Have the fly Keyword so even if in CC with a tough enemy unit they can just fly back and laser cut them to pieces with the Melta. Also have access to RP so probably 25-40% more survivable depending on unit size. Only issue is 60pts per model so having them with a Cryptek for 4+ RP is probably the best way to make sure they survive meaning their mobility mind be hindered for survivability.
Interesting point on Acanthrites, but 9 of them is 540 points. For 10 points more you can get a Pylon. Are they really worth a quarter of your army points?
I play:
40K: Daemons, Tau
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Bayou
Star Wars Legion: Republic & Separatists
MESBG: Far Harad, Misty Mountains
2017/12/05 17:43:50
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I think that they pylon at the current price is slightly overcosted and it's a bit of a one hit wonder.
However the Acanthrites and Big pylon have different targets since the Acanthrite melta is only S7.
For the same point cost you could also get 2 Tesseract Arks or 3 Tomb Sentinels.
It's so sad that these units are FW, I could run any of them and probably not be dissapointet.
If GW only would buff the heavy index units to FW levels I would be very happy.
I imagine an army consisting of:
CCB with veil
Deceiver
10 Tesla immortals
6-9 Acanthrites
6-9 Tomb blades
and then add whatever you need.
Immortals are Veiled and given MWBD, Deceiver uses GI on Acanthrites so that they can move and fire and Tomb blades moves up.
Bring down one part of the opponents army at a time.
If only Monoliths and Flayed ones comes down in points Necrons can have a really nasty alpha strike.
Imagine a Monolith and 20 Flayed ones coming in at the same time.
2017/12/05 17:59:24
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Cmdr_Sune wrote: Acanthrites veiled into cover (although that might be difficult) is a scary thought. Considering the strategem that allows RP for canoptec units. They are also ok in CC and can then just fall back and blast the enemy.
Does the Acanthrites get +1 attack because of their swords? I guess it's not faq:ed since they are FW.
A unit of 6 should be more then enough and will help with being 50% obscured as the unit is a smaller size.
I
I would almost say Acanthrites are almost better at CC then Wraiths due to 4 S5 -3 D1 attacks compared to 3 S5 -1 D1.
T1 Deploy into cover and shoot the Melta, T2 move 11" , shoot the Melta and charge a a unit at T4 or lower for 3+ to wound.
They do get +1 attack for the voidblades as well.Automatically Appended Next Post:
Klowny wrote: Counterpoint, wraiths now get RP and a 3++ everywhere is better than a no invuln save. You'd need to run a big squad of acanthrites to be survivable, plus they aren't infantry so each model will have to be wholly within and 50% obscured. Wraiths can sit on a critical objective close to scythe T1, soak a huge amount of punishment, RP, charge T2 funza
The difference between them.
Wraiths; 3++ invul, ignore Terrain and enemy models for charging, good at holding units and vehicle in CC. Can now be RP to make them bout 30% more survivable depending on the unit size.
Acanthrites; -1 is no 3++ but they can at least have a 2+ save in cover (if 50% obscured). They are a T4 or lower unit killer. carry a 12 S7 Melta.. Have the fly Keyword so even if in CC with a tough enemy unit they can just fly back and laser cut them to pieces with the Melta. Also have access to RP so probably 25-40% more survivable depending on unit size. Only issue is 60pts per model so having them with a Cryptek for 4+ RP is probably the best way to make sure they survive meaning their mobility mind be hindered for survivability.
Interesting point on Acanthrites, but 9 of them is 540 points. For 10 points more you can get a Pylon. Are they really worth a quarter of your army points?
Like Cmdr_Sune said, they both have different jobs. Acanthrites are "only" S7 with their Melta so you are mostly targeting Troop-Transports and light-aromured vehicles (T6 or below), you need to be up close and personal to make use of the gun.
Spoiler:
The Pylon is mainly a "Titanic" keyword killer and tabk killer, no good agaisnt units with 6+ models unless they have multi-wound or if you use the Heavy profile of the Pylon (should never have to). It can hit anywhere on the table so it can comfortably sit in your back corner with a screen of Scarabs killing Titan-esque models.
In terms of basic damage they both preform the same if they all wounding rolls go through and highest damage possible e.g. "max unit count/shots" x "max damage output".
Acanthrites = 9 x 6 = 54 wounds max from a unit of Acanthrites.
Pylon = 6 x 9 (6+D3 wounds) = 54 wounds standard and 108 wounds vs Titanic keyword models.
On your point about 9 Acanthrites being 540pts, I would only invest that mainy points if I was using them as my main Anti-tank. I usually field 5-6 Acanthrites due to my Terrain being able to give that mainy modles 50% obscuring. My anti-tank changes every month, 3 weeks ago I liked 2 Tesseract Arks, 1 DDA and 1 THGC Triarch Stalker while now I like 2 Tesseract Arks, 6 Acanthrites and Illuminor Szeras/THGC Triarch Stalker.
I personally wouldn't Field 9 Acanthrites unless I knew I was getting all thsoe unkts back via a Cryptek and using 2 CP for RP on them. And even if I was going to field 9 I would probably drop a few of them and another unit for a Tesseract Ark.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hey Torblind, can your "outcome" simulator compare the survivability of Acanthrites -1 to hit vs a Wraiths 3++ invul? Want to see if they are relatively close in survivability if possible.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/05 19:29:04
Hey Torblind, can your "outcome" simulator compare the survivability of Acanthrites -1 to hit vs a Wraiths 3++ invul? Want to see if they are relatively close in survivability if possible.
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel (185)
++Gloom Prism
===
Veil of Darkness on a CCB along with 10 Immortals with Gauss. Illuminor for extra anti-tank and buff. Scarabs grab objectives and stay out of the way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/05 21:01:07
2017/12/05 20:54:02
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
===
Veil of Darkness on a CCB along with 10 Immortals with Gauss. Illuminor for extra anti-tank and buff. Scarabs grab objectives and stay out of the way.
Did crons get anything in the vehicle design portion of the CA?
Just asking cause I thought I heard stuff of vehicles being able to be a little more customizable now, like to the point you can remove transport capacity on some vehicles entirely and just add more weapons. Granted I think that's on very specific vehicles, so of course more options for the imperium.
I know I would love to be able to remove transport capacity from a ghost ark and make it an even more dangerous gunboat ambulance. *chuckle*
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/05 21:33:55
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.
2017/12/05 21:37:20
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Lothmar wrote: Did crons get anything in the vehicle design portion of the CA?
Just asking cause I thought I heard stuff of vehicles being able to be a little more customizable now, like to the point you can remove transport capacity on some vehicles entirely and just add more weapons. Granted I think that's on very specific vehicles, so of course more options for the imperium.
I know I would love to be able to remove transport capacity from a ghost ark and make it an even more dangerous gunboat ambulance. *chuckle*
The Vehicle Design Rules are strictly for Land Raiders and are for Open Play only.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/12/06 01:36:10
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel (185)
++Gloom Prism
===
Veil of Darkness on a CCB along with 10 Immortals with Gauss. Illuminor for extra anti-tank and buff. Scarabs grab objectives and stay out of the way.
Thank you for using spoilers.
I would switch the CCBs to Tesla cannons so they don't get the penalty to shooting if they move. Use extra points on more Scarabs.
A CCB doesn't need the Veil, it's already fast enough. You should give it to the Overlord.
Deathmarks should probably be in a single unit of 10 rather than two units of 5, to improve their chances getting 6s against target, as well as RP likelihood.
2017/12/06 03:37:44
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Lothmar wrote: Did crons get anything in the vehicle design portion of the CA?
Just asking cause I thought I heard stuff of vehicles being able to be a little more customizable now, like to the point you can remove transport capacity on some vehicles entirely and just add more weapons. Granted I think that's on very specific vehicles, so of course more options for the imperium.
I know I would love to be able to remove transport capacity from a ghost ark and make it an even more dangerous gunboat ambulance. *chuckle*
It's just Land Raiders for now. HOWEVER, if you fake a little enthusiasm, they might get to doing the vehicle design rules for all armies slightly quicker.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/12/06 06:41:41
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
How likely is it that Necrons get vehicle options?
... perhaps they could have one option for the Ghost Ark.
"You may equip the GA with a Doomsday Cannon, however if you do so you will loose all transport capacity and the vehicle gets the Heavy battlefield role."
They could actually do something similar with the Night Scythe.
2017/12/06 09:47:18
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Lothmar wrote: So am I understanding it right that if we want the Veil that's effectively our 'warlord trait'?
Also if we take that, then that means some unknown character is leading the army instead of any of the named I might take?
The Veil is an Artifact. The way Artifacts work in 8th is that you get one for free on any one character as long as you're Battleforged with just that one Faction (which, for Necrons, is always). So you can take Zahndrekh as your Warlord and put the Veil on a Cryptek. Every army so far has gotten a Stratagem to pay 1CP before the game to get another Artifact, 3CP to get two more.
2017/12/06 21:13:04
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Lothmar wrote: That's what I needed to confirm, thanks Ara.
Im hoping they bring back the Cryptek unique staffs.
Well they gave Guard back Blob Squads with a Stratagem and Dark Angels got the ability to upgrade Characters to be Deathwing, so maybe we could get something similar like "1CP: make a Cryptek into a Harbinger of Destruction/Harbinger of the Storm/etc".
2017/12/07 00:13:55
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
and a 3++ everywhere is better than a no invuln save. You'd need to run a big squad of acanthrites to be survivable, plus they aren't infantry so each model will have to be wholly within and 50% obscured. Wraiths can sit on a critical objective close to scythe T1, soak a huge amount of punishment, 
12,000 
11,100 pts, 
7,000 pts
