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1) If you shoot at them, do you get -1 for shooting at a single model? (So it will be a total of -2 to all shooting?)

2) If you move in a way that makes you contact 2 manglers at the same time (possible with skirmishers/Fliers) do both of them go away, even if one of them would kill the unit outright?

There is no such thing as a penalty for shooting at a single model. That is a 7th edition artifact and no longer exists. However, manglers are always treated as being in soft cover.

As to the second, I would want to read the mangler rules specifically. Personally, I would just contact one at a time to keep it simple, but as I said, I would want to read the precise wording.

If you contact them at the exact same time then yes

Davall wrote:
As to the second, I would want to read the mangler rules specifically. Personally, I would just contact one at a time to keep it simple, but as I said, I would want to read the precise wording.

Well the whole point is that I want to only sacrifice 1 chaff unit to take out 2 squigs if they are close enough to each other

Thanks to both of you guys

It would be possible to remove both of the manglers but it would take some serious luck/positioning to contact them both simultaneously.
When you move into contact with them you resolve the Force Of Total Destruction hits, remove the squig, then continue your move (assuming you're still alive and have distance left to move).
You dont make the complete move then resolve hits from any squigs you encountered, you move into the first, resolve, move into the second, resolve etc etc until you've moved as far as you want or you're dead.

Its the same as with fanatics

Cemanicus wrote:It would be possible to remove both of the manglers but it would take some serious luck/positioning to contact them both simultaneously.
When you move into contact with them you resolve the Force Of Total Destruction hits, remove the squig, then continue your move (assuming you're still alive and have distance left to move).

You have to end your movement over a squig to kill it. If you just go through you're getting 2D6 hits, but not kill it.

You have to find a way for the unit to stand on top of both manglers to kill them.

moral of the story make sure skirmishers can't use their free reforms to end movement on multiple squigs.

jouso wrote:

Cemanicus wrote:It would be possible to remove both of the manglers but it would take some serious luck/positioning to contact them both simultaneously.
When you move into contact with them you resolve the Force Of Total Destruction hits, remove the squig, then continue your move (assuming you're still alive and have distance left to move).

You have to end your movement over a squig to kill it. If you just go through you're getting 2D6 hits, but not kill it.

You have to find a way for the unit to stand on top of both manglers to kill them.

Um, no.

"..and the unit may carry on with its move." pg 56 *Force of Total Destruction, Orcs and Goblins

You choose to move into contact during your move, resolve the hits (and any associated panic), remove the Mangler, then carry on with the rest of the move.

60 point wraith hero sweeps up all the fanatics and manglers in his 12" move.
Vampire cleaning team.

-Matt

Sabertusks do that really well also (at 16"). I managed to pull 3 fanatics and kill a mangler one game that way

Exactly how did the tusk survive meeting the first fanatic?

Horrible distance rolls on one of them, 3 hits and one wound on the second, and the third went in a different direction to discourage something else. It didn't work

jouso wrote:

Cemanicus wrote:It would be possible to remove both of the manglers but it would take some serious luck/positioning to contact them both simultaneously.
When you move into contact with them you resolve the Force Of Total Destruction hits, remove the squig, then continue your move (assuming you're still alive and have distance left to move).

You have to end your movement over a squig to kill it. If you just go through you're getting 2D6 hits, but not kill it.

You have to find a way for the unit to stand on top of both manglers to kill them.

This was last edition of the OnG book. You could run thought the fanatic and only get 1D6. This edition, once you touch the mangler/fantaic they die and you take 2d6.

Artee wrote:

jouso wrote:

Cemanicus wrote:It would be possible to remove both of the manglers but it would take some serious luck/positioning to contact them both simultaneously.
When you move into contact with them you resolve the Force Of Total Destruction hits, remove the squig, then continue your move (assuming you're still alive and have distance left to move).

You have to end your movement over a squig to kill it. If you just go through you're getting 2D6 hits, but not kill it.

You have to find a way for the unit to stand on top of both manglers to kill them.

This was last edition of the OnG book. You could run thought the fanatic and only get 1D6. This edition, once you touch the mangler/fantaic they die and you take 2d6.

So right. We've been playing it wrong for the whole time!!

(Not that I remember any unit choking the mangler and not being stomped in the process).

jouso wrote:

Cemanicus wrote:It would be possible to remove both of the manglers but it would take some serious luck/positioning to contact them both simultaneously.
When you move into contact with them you resolve the Force Of Total Destruction hits, remove the squig, then continue your move (assuming you're still alive and have distance left to move).

You have to end your movement over a squig to kill it. If you just go through you're getting 2D6 hits, but not kill it.

You have to find a way for the unit to stand on top of both manglers to kill them.

Not quite. Rule requires the unit "moving into contact with" the Mangler Squig (or Fanatic for that matter) in order to get rid of them. Not prerequisite to end the movement on it. I think that was a 7th edition part of the rule (for the Fanatics), but can't remember exactly. If you survive (fat chance ), you can continue with your movement.

Edit: Apologies, didn't notice this has already been addressed to.

I always wondered if you came into contact with a fanatic, and the first d6 kills you if you also remove the fanatic.

The RAW goes to great pain to describe that you first take the regular d6 and then you take a second d6 to kill it.

Yeah, if you end on top of the Fanatic(or Mangler) it dies regardless of the results of its hits inflicted.

Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, if you end on top of the Fanatic(or Mangler) it dies regardless of the results of its hits inflicted.

It's if you touch the fanatic/mangler it dies. In last edition it was if you end of top of it. This edition if you charge though the fanatic/mangler, it dies and does the extra die of damage.

You can't charge through it. You can't even declare a charge against them. You can only move into them during compulsory or remaining move phases. Remove fanatic/squig then player may carry on its move (if it's alive).

DukeRustfield wrote:You can't charge through it. You can't even declare a charge against them. You can only move into them during compulsory or remaining move phases. Remove fanatic/squig then player may carry on its move (if it's alive).

I don't think this is correct, as this would prevent you charging a unit of Night Goblins since the fanatics are released as soon as you get within 8". If they only go 2"-7" forward then you continue your charge until you contact a fanatic, resolve it's death throes hits, continue on to the next fanatic etc etc until you reach the night goblins (assuming you survive that far).
As such, I dont think existing fanatics/squigs would block your charge against units behind them, you just stop when you reach them, take the hits then continue on.

You can't declare a charge against fanatics or manglers. It states it clearly. If they roll 8+ they bounce through you and come out 1" behind. You didn't charge them, they ran through you.

Oh, I see what you're asking. Hrm, they are either saying you can't charge them PERIOD or you can't Charge them, and thus possibly kill them before they get to do their stuff. But you can walk up to them in any movement phase and say hi.

Eh, I still don't see it. You can't declare impossible charges. So if you had a valid charge to a NG unit and fanatics pop out and roll 2, you have to now declare charges against both of them to complete you NG charge. But you can't charge fanatics.

Okay, after some brief thinking. I'm going to make a total RAI call and say you they meant Charge with no Charge rules. You Charge up, watch them die. And charge on if that's what you were doing. My rationale for this is it says you can move into contact with them and there's no movement phase you can do that other than charging.

The charge isn't impossible as the game has given you rules for moving trough fanatics. So no problem.

Technically it is a problem. Because WHFB has no means of entering B2B contact with an enemy unit other than charging or Compulsary Moves such as panic (and even then you bounce through). It even states that if you were going to charge unit X but have to hit someone in the way, you have to declare a multi-charge (p. 18)

**yet you can't charge fanatics or manglers**

So what, pray tell, phase do you go into contact with fanatics/manglers? If you are charging, it would be in the charge phase, and would be a Charge. See the above that says you can't charge them.

If it's a charge, they would get to take a charge reaction. Which could be really bad.

But it's not "no problem." Because you would have to completely redefine a subphase to allow it to happen. Either every rule that charges have, such as charge reactions and declaring charges, is thrown out against 2 units and despite it saying you can't charge them, you DO charge them (it's in the charge phase after all...), just without BRB rules, or you go into B2B in one of the other movement phases against the BRB.

Charge isn't a phase, its a sub-phase of movement.
And to top it all off they're called "charge moves".

Regardless of whether it's a phase, a superphase subphase or a subsubsubsubsubphase, it remains the same. It's how you get into B2B with the enemy. And you can't do it to those 2 units, which makes how you would declare you were attempting to do something illegal, rather head-scratching.

Actually they are called charges. About 50 times. If they were called "charge moves," it would make all this moot because Fanatics and Manglers aren't immune to whatever the hell those are.

The way I treat Fanatics / Manglers when it comes to charges is if they're, essentially, mobile terrain with their own rules. You can injure them, yes, but for the most part they're essentially a mobile tree or other piece of Terrain. Don't block charges unless they block line of sight at what's on the other side (ex: If there's a half dozen Fanatics nearly within base-to-base and behind them is some Snotlings, you probably can't charge the Snotlings).

The Fanatic/Mangler rules allows you to move into contact with them without charging.

Artee wrote:The Fanatic/Mangler rules allows you to move into contact with them without charging.

The thing here is some people seem to think a fanatic/mangler makes it impossible to charge the units behind it.

Artee wrote:The Fanatic/Mangler rules allows you to move into contact with them without charging.

In what phase?

The only way WHFB allows you to move into contact with other units is detailed in the charging section. It has a lot of quite specific rules regarding it. Those units specifically can't be charged. It's like saying a unit is immune to all magic except for spells cast in the magic phase. So you come to the charge movement phase and do you declare it? That seems odd to declare a charge against a unit that can't be charged. Do you declare you're moving into them? There is no rule for that in WHFB. Because the units themselves say once they are removed the unit then continues on with its move, it doesn't say continue on with its charge.

Though Fanatics have a separate rule where they are released and the enemy unit can continue if they want but chargers have to continue--which is how you could see them accidentally coming into contact with fanatics, because they originally charged the NG and fanatics pop out and they have to continue the charge which brings them into contact with the fanatics in the way. But Manglers don't work like that.

But really, for all you people who love being RAW lawyers, they can't be charged. How do you ever move your unit into B2B with a Mangler if it can't be charged? Point to the phase and rules that you use to move any unit into an unchargeable unit.


That said, I'm a big believer in RAI. Khairos is one target. Butchers are unarmored. Manglers and Fanatics can be reached in the charge phase with an extremely streamlined rules (aka they die, you take hits, and you continue if alive). But I find people like to RAW when it suits them and RAI when it doesn't.

DukeRustfield,

O&G book, pg 53 Fanatics: Force of Destruction: "Fanatics cannot be charged, but models can move into contact with them".

O&B book, pg 56 Mangler Squigs: Force of Total Destruction: "Mangler Squigs cannot be charged, but models can move into contact with them".