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This isn't necessarily a gun thread, more like a rant. Sorry in advanced.

I'm finally 18, and as custom dictates (I think), 18 is the age to become interested in Firearms, and possibly purchase one. Before I even got started on looking, I wanted to check out my local guns laws. After searching around for a chunk of time, I'm a little disgusted with my state, and how it handles it's Firearms Policies.

First of all, I have no intention of purchasing a pistol, which simplifies the matter a little bit. I don't have any interest in pistols, and if it came down to self-defense, I'd rather have a knife or something that isn't a gun. I have my eye on rifles, something to just take down to a range and fire off for a bit, or to take along as a pack rifle for camping.

Anyway, the general consensus is that you can buy a rifle without too much trouble, as long as it has a safety and doesn't fire an outrageously large bullet. You have to register it and take a general firearm saftey class or something like that, and then you're free to own it. You're also free to open carry your rifle.... In theory. In reality, you'd probably be tackled to the ground and disarmed for even attempting to exercise your rights by the mega-tacticool commando cops around here. Pistols are a different matter entirely, and maryland carry permits (There's no distinction between open carry and concealed in the permit, or something) are apparently hard to come by.

I'm not sure how the gun laws compare in other states, but it seems like the laws here serve no purpose than to appease gun lobbyists, when in reality, you're not free to use your firearms as you please, and you're not allowed to take advantage of your own rights. Obviously, as a matter of courtesy, you shouldn't carry you AR on your back around town, but in the rare occasion that there is some reason for needing to, you don't have to worry about being thrown in jail. I don't know. I'm not upset about the laws, as much as I'm upset about the reasoning behind them. When you look at gun laws, you realize how much paranoia and fear drive policy, and how much those same things are cutting down on ALL of our rights, including the first and even the fourth.

Maryland's crime rate is nothing to be proud of (possibly because of Baltimore), but the whole state shouldn't have to suffer because of how bad Baltimore is. Any MD gun owners on here willing to add their voice? What do you have to do to keep the feds from taking away yer' guns? Anything I should be aware of?

Texas is weirdly similar about the difference between concealed carry and theoretical ability to openly carry rifles and shotguns.

Although I think CCLs are easier to get here than where you are.

Can't you just buy your rifle or shotgun and keep it out in concealed location while not in use at the range? I mean yeah, you can't walk around in the street with a fething rifle. For example even in Texas, when we unload the guns after hunting, we do it discretely and keep them in a case or bag whenever outside with the sole exception of ranges and wherever we're hunting.

I always thought Samus had an arm-mounted disintegrator, why on earth would you want a puny rifle?

if it came down to self-defense, I'd rather have a knife or something that isn't a gun

I take it you haven't seen Indiana Jones? I feel the teachings of Hollywood are wasted sometimes..

Amaya wrote:Can't you just buy your rifle or shotgun and keep it out in concealed location while not in use at the range? I mean yeah, you can't walk around in the street with a fething rifle. For example even in Texas, when we unload the guns after hunting, we do it discretely and keep them in a case or bag whenever outside with the sole exception of ranges and wherever we're hunting.

That's exactly what I plan to do, aside from a mild interest in carrying it while camping/ general woodsy outings. I'm a bit afraid of that though. There was a court case where an individual was arrested and tried for carrying a rifle on his camping pack. He didn't even apply for a permit though, which might have had something to do with his arrest. I need to finish reading this:

http://www.courts.state.md.us/opinions/coa/2011/16a10.pdf

As far as I know, you don't even need a permit to open carry a long gun, as long as it's registered (?). I have no problem applying for a permit, but are the cops REALLY going to ask for a permit before they shove your face in the dirt?

Pacific wrote:I always thought Samus had an arm-mounted disintegrator, why on earth would you want a puny rifle?

if it came down to self-defense, I'd rather have a knife or something that isn't a gun

I take it you haven't seen Indiana Jones? I feel the teachings of Hollywood are wasted sometimes..

I don't know where you could learn effective knife fighting outside of the military, I'm sure someone teaches it, but in close quarters (where I think a fair amount of self defense scenarios take place) it will be just as effective if not more so than a firearm.

Yeah, I'm counting on the Marine Corps teaching me something minimal on self defense with a knife, but I won't hold my breath.

My dad was a non-lethal weapons instructor in the Marines, and his philosophy was, and still is, that in a situation where you need to defend yourself, a knife (or anything that isn't a firearm) is a much more controllable weapon, and is less likely to be turned on you, and would be equally effective. I'm not saying he's absolutely correct, but as a matter of principle, I like to echo his belief.

Melissia wrote:Texas is weirdly similar about the difference between concealed carry and theoretical ability to openly carry rifles and shotguns.

Although I think CCLs are easier to get here than where you are.

Gun restrictions in Texas follow the history of the Civil War. After the War of Yanke Aggression, firearms were restricted, especially concealed firearms. However we still had the like of Comancheroes (and occasional Comanches) so you couldn't restrict long guns very well.

Texas is a shall issue state, so the presumption is you get the CCL. In practice its a lot harder, depending on administration and local bureaucracy (background checks instead of instantaneously like you would for something serious like national security, are instead done via manual searches at the county of residence . . see Frazzled's diatribe about government efficiency). You can't be a criminal, crazy, delinquent on taxes or chld support, and you have to pass a written and shooting test (no truth to the rumor that the first test involved shooting at carpetbaggers, none whatsoever...)

Maryland is under the shadow of Washington DC. Sorry, it sucks to be you.

I'm a MD gun owner. I own a Colt 45 and a Mossberg 500 pump action 12 gauge shotgun.

First off, you have to take a quick gun-safety class to own a firearm in MD. It's super quick and can be done online. Yeah...

I don't know about long rifles, but I do know there was a single form to full out when I bought my shotgun at Bass Pro/Outdoor World. I didn't file anything, the store did it all. Quick, easy, simple.

Now, as to carrying:

1. MD does not allow concealed carry right now, excepting people whose jobs require it or those who handle large sums of money (such as night bank managers). This is currently being debated in the courts however.

2. You are allowed to carry your unloaded weapon with you provided you are:
a. Headed to a range or other location with the purpose of firing said weapon.
b. Headed home from such a location.
c. Headed to a gun store to have work done on your weapon.

You're not allowed to carry in state parks at all; this is made very clear on their websites and at the entrances to those parks. So if dude was arrested for carrying at a park, that's why.

Overall I haven't had any issues owning my guns. Just a few weeks ago I went back down to Basspro and bought over 300 shells for my shotgun. I had friends over to my house (I'm on a 5 acre farm) and we shot skeet (clay pigeons) for over 3 hours with no trouble. Well, okay, the police did show up at one point, but that was because one of my almost-neighbors called them to complain.

The officer was very nice about it. We asked if we were doing anything illegal, he said no we were fine; they're required to respond was all. He asked if we had an ETA on when we'd be done, we said no not really, he said okay. No muss, no fuss, no problems whatsoever.

So yes, MD gun laws are a bit more strict than, say, Virginia, but they're not really draconian or anything either. 5 day waiting period for handguns, but I was able to buy my shotgun literally on my way to go skeet shooting for the first time.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

I'm finally 18, and as custom dictates (I think), 18 is the age to become interested in Firearms, and possibly purchase one.

A late bloomer, it's OK what you are feeling is perfectly natural as you develop into an adult
I got my first fire arm when I was 5, I bought my own at a yard sale when I was 7. I used to pedal my bike from my house to go pheasant hunting with my boom stick across the handlebars. Alas, though not that long ago, that was a different age.

if it came down to self-defense, I'd rather have a knife or something that isn't a gun

I laughed until I peed. It's not your fault but it's still hilarious. If you want to get stabbed carry a knife, if you want to be bludgeoned carry a bat, etc.

You still have to get within reach of your opponent with a knife and you have to effectively be able to overpower them (either in speed or raw strength if hey grab your hand).

With a gun, you can shoot them without having to worry about a physical confrontation.

AustonT wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:

I'm finally 18, and as custom dictates (I think), 18 is the age to become interested in Firearms, and possibly purchase one.

A late bloomer, it's OK what you are feeling is perfectly natural as you develop into an adult
I got my first fire arm when I was 5, I bought my own at a yard sale when I was 7. I used to pedal my bike from my house to go pheasant hunting with my boom stick across the handlebars. Alas, though not that long ago, that was a different age.

if it came down to self-defense, I'd rather have a knife or something that isn't a gun

I laughed until I peed. It's not your fault but it's still hilarious. If you want to get stabbed carry a knife, if you want to be bludgeoned carry a bat, etc.

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's naivete. I've never really been 'attacked', so I don't know how I would react in that situation, or what my preferred method of retaliation would be, but I've just always imagined whipping out my Kabar and cutting throats, rather than blowing a hole through someone. In reality, it would probably be some gakky little folder or something nonsense that really wouldn't do my any good. I see what you're saying.

I'll probably change my mind on the matter at some point. The only pistol I've ever even glanced at is the 1911, although that's a little excessive for everyday carry, and too expensive for plinking

Thank you steamydragon! That was very helpful. I know which bass pro shops you speak of. How is their selection? I know they sell basically everything you could possibly want there, including massive gun safes

Samus_aran115 wrote:
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's naivete. I've never really been 'attacked', so I don't know how I would react in that situation, or what my preferred method of retaliation would be, but I've just always imagined whipping out my Kabar and cutting throats, rather than blowing a hole through someone. In reality, it would probably be some gakky little folder or something nonsense that really wouldn't do my any good. I see what you're saying.

I'll probably change my mind on the matter at some point. The only pistol I've ever even glanced at is the 1911, although that's a little excessive for everyday carry, and too expensive for plinking

Thank you steamydragon! That was very helpful. I know which bass pro shops you speak of. How is their selection? I know they sell basically everything you could possibly want there, including massive gun safes

I've heard that the sound of a shotgun being pumped is one of the most recognized sounds around now; apparently is a not-terrible deterrent on its own! That said, for home defense a shotgun really is best. The shot velocity is generally low enough that it won't penetrate walls, unlike a rifle or handgun where you risk shooting someone in the room over. I will admit that the length of the barrell can be somewhat of an issue though.

I plink with my .45! Although I generally buy lower quality ammo since I'm shooting at paper, and even the it's something like $35.00 for a box of 50 rounds...

The BassPro in Anne Arrundel isn't bad at all! The selection of handguns, rifles and shotguns is good, there's a wide variety of accessories and such. The only problem is that it is usually VERY crowded; I also don't like Anne Arrundel very much. Apparently the Dick's Sporting Goods out in Westminster has better prices, but a more limited selection. Not surprising considering the store is about half the size of BassPro, if that much.

And I don't think I've ever been called Steamydragon before... I like it though

Michigan has pretty good gun laws. You can open carry pistols, not sure about rifles/shotguns. You have to take a 1 week class and pass some test to get a CCW. And buying firearms is as easy as filling out some paper work and handing over your checkbook.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Yeah, I'm counting on the Marine Corps teaching me something minimal on self defense with a knife, but I won't hold my breath.

My dad was a non-lethal weapons instructor in the Marines, and his philosophy was, and still is, that in a situation where you need to defend yourself, a knife (or anything that isn't a firearm) is a much more controllable weapon, and is less likely to be turned on you, and would be equally effective. I'm not saying he's absolutely correct, but as a matter of principle, I like to echo his belief.

I was a combat marksmanship coach in the Marines, so that's skewing my bias on this discussion. Knives are great; if your only alternative in a lethal fight are you hands. A knife, like your hands, requires you to be within your opponents striking range, and lacks the system shock that a gunshot wound causes. I'd rather shoot an enemy five times at 15 yards, than try to cut an artery at 0. In an engagement Distance = Time, Time = margin for error; keep your distance, and fire accurately. Odds are, you'll live longer.


Edit: Yes, there is a little knife training in MCMAP.

Id rather have a gun. But oddly enough, its the opposite for rape victims. I read somewhere once that rape victims were more willing to comply if the assailant had a knife then a gun. Go figure

Simple solution: move out of the Peoples Republic of Maryland.

Why? MD is a good state! We consistantly rank in the best schools, have excellent roads and other than Baltimore the state is fairly crime free! (Seriously, Baltimore is bad...)

The state's gun laws aren't exactly draconian, and the whole "no carry" thing is currently up for review.

streamdragon wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's naivete. I've never really been 'attacked', so I don't know how I would react in that situation, or what my preferred method of retaliation would be, but I've just always imagined whipping out my Kabar and cutting throats, rather than blowing a hole through someone. In reality, it would probably be some gakky little folder or something nonsense that really wouldn't do my any good. I see what you're saying.

The shot velocity is generally low enough that it won't penetrate walls, unlike a rifle or handgun where you risk shooting someone in the room over.

Two things that everyone should remember:

1. The only guaranteed way to end a fight is to kill the other guy. The only guaranteed way to kill the other guy is to disrupt/destroy his essential internal organs or central nervous system. Knives have NOTHING on bullets when it comes to penetrating a human body deep enough to destroy and/or fatally disrupt central organ function. Your knife blade is, what, 5"-7" long at most. A 9mm hollowpoint will easily penetrate 11"-14" even after passing through heavy denim clothing or barriers while dumping 250-350 ft/lbs of energy into the assailant. The key in destroying an essential organ is that the weapon must penetrate deep enough to strike that organ. Anything less will only kill the assailant through drawn out blood loss. As Sean Connery stated wisely in The Untouchables, "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight." Better yet, use all possible avenues open to you to avoid as many fights and confrontations as possible. The best defense weapon you possess is not what is in your hands, but what is between your ears.

2. No. Any projectile that is traveling at a sufficient speed to penetrate a bad guy will WITHOUT A DOUBT be traveling at a sufficient speed to penetrate a wall or two or three. While some shotgun loads (like birdshot) may penetrate fewer walls than others (such as buckshot or slugs), they will rarely have the penetrative power to cause fatal wounds on any determined assailant. Here is a practical and informative site on the matter. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm. I also highly suggest that any new shotgun owner purchase and read Massad Ayoob's Stressfire II

As always, weigh the options and make the decision that is best for you and your living situation

Knife fighting can be very tricky. It *is* extremely effective at close quarters, but it requires you to be completely up on your game and make no mistakes at all. It requires a lot of intensive training to become effective with a knife.
So, in this regard Jakka's formulation is correct--knives are last ditch efforts.

The thing about knife fighting that you have to remember is this: you are going to bleed. Knife fights are wars of attrition. I agree with Jakka; I'll take a blade over an empty fist any day; and I have some training with blades. However, given the option, I would choose a handgun every single time, and just aim for center mass. Even at a range of 0 yards, I would still take the handgun. The stopping power of even rimfire will be just like getting stabbed by a stiletto -that was mounted on the hood of a car. The transfer of energy is simply unparalled.

G. Whitenbeard wrote:Two things that everyone should remember:

1. The only guaranteed way to end a fight is to kill the other guy.

I think you'll find that breaking both of someone's ankles/kneecaps and then taking ten steps back will end most fights.

deathholydeath wrote:Knife fighting can be very tricky. It *is* extremely effective at close quarters, but it requires you to be completely up on your game and make no mistakes at all. It requires a lot of intensive training to become effective with a knife.
So, in this regard Jakka's formulation is correct--knives are last ditch efforts.

Rule #1 of a knife fight: You are going to get cut.
Rule #2 of a knife fight: Don't lose an artery.

Samus_aran115 wrote:When you look at gun laws, you realize how much paranoia and fear drive policy, and how much those same things are cutting down on ALL of our rights, including the first and even the fourth.

The paranoia cuts both ways though. I've been in more than one heated debate where the "we have to protect ourselves from the gov't" argument gets played, which is just as paranoid as the gun laws you're referring to.

This thread is reminding me of the House of the Dead movie. Suddenly everyone is a fething kung fu master, Navy Seal, Astronaut and scientist all wrapped up into one man.

Australia is probably the place with the tightest gun laws. you even have to go through with a license to own a paintball gun, not just a paper form and online details. But go into a class for a week and learn about stuff. Its actually pretty helpful, I modded up my own paintball gun in about 3 days afterwards. Thankfully, they are starting to relax the gun laws a little, it's left over from the Port Arthur massacres and Welkin beach killings, plus all the bike gang wars in Melbourne...

azazel the cat wrote:I think you'll find that breaking both of someone's ankles/kneecaps and then taking ten steps back will end most fights.

'Tis but a scratch.

What is Md's laws on carrying ECD's(Tasers, stun guns, etc.)?

They're one hell of a deterrent, when pistols are unavailable.

I think 'electronic weapons' differ by county in MD.

Thanks everyone. I've got a general idea what to do now, plus I have slightly less resentment against my state. I never hear ads for gun shows, but I'll keep my eyes open. They seem like a good way to get into firearms.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Thanks everyone. I've got a general idea what to do now, plus I have slightly less resentment against my state. I never hear ads for gun shows, but I'll keep my eyes open. They seem like a good way to get into firearms.

NO.

They are a good way to feel a firearm if there's something at the local stores you don't have. They are not good deals pricewise otherwise.

stores, Bud's, Guntrader, those are good deals.

Agreeing with Frazz. Not really knowing any better, I bought my Colt at a gun show. I paid probably 100 bucks too much, and I still need to take it to a smith to have the spring looked at so the gun doesn't jam on just about every other shot.