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I've been running these guys quite a bit in my lists and have had great success. Put them with a few immortals and they really shine, especially following the footsteps of a few wraiths. They can soften up targets, shoot down a vehicle if it gets too close and generally if you give them Lightning Fields they are difficult to charge unless it's a full strength unit.

Anyone else feel like this is an under appreciated Harbinger? Any thoughts or has anyone else given them a run?

Absolutely agree. I've been switching some Eldritch Lances to Voltaic Staffs for the "extra" crypteks (still need Solar Pulses). Maybe better, definitely at least comparable. Seems to depend on terrain density. But equipped with lightning fields they're still the same price as a naked Eldritch Lance - and let's face it, our guys can also use some help in CC.

If you look at some of the tournament winning lists, though, they're not a secret.

I could see the lightning field being useful against small hard hitting lightly armored squads like DCA or genestealers, but it just seems meh against MEQ.

The Voltaic staffs seem downright brutal against vehicles, especially if it's being used in combination with scarabs.

schadenfreude wrote:I could see the lightning field being useful against small hard hitting lightly armored squads like DCA or genestealers, but it just seems meh against MEQ.

I dunno, D6 S8 AP5 auto hits isn't exactly what most people would consider "meh" against MEQ.

From what I've been going over, Voltaic Staffs aren't as good as people think. You have 4 shots, but you need a 6 to penetrate, then another 6 to wreck it due to the Ap-, giving you a 1/36 chance to wreck a vehicle, not taking into account the roll to hit. They don't seem as brutal as schadenfreude said.

Valkyrie wrote:From what I've been going over, Voltaic Staffs aren't as good as people think. You have 4 shots, but you need a 6 to penetrate, then another 6 to wreck it due to the Ap-, giving you a 1/36 chance to wreck a vehicle, not taking into account the roll to hit. They don't seem as brutal as schadenfreude said.

INAT FAQ says the staff causes a glancing/penetrating hit in addition to the normal effect of the weapon. So if shot at an AV11 rhino the to pen roll is a 6 the total is 11 so the rhino takes a glancing hit at ap- which would be a -3 on the damage table, and in addition to the -3 glancing hit the vehicle takes a haywire effect which happens to be a penetrating hit with no minuses to the roll.

Math hammer on an a target with nothing but the haywire and the big picture (the vehicle is also going to be charged by scarabs, so if they autohit the vehicle is dead)

2/36 hits=wrecked
5/36= immobilized, vehicle is doomed to be nomnom'd by scarabs in the assault phase.
5/36 =stunned, vehicle is doomed to be nomnom'd by scarabs in it's controlling player's assault phase if it's not rescued.

*4 shots=28/36 chance of wrecked/immobilized=7/9*2/3(To hit roll)=14/27=52% chance the vehicle explodes or is vehicle is doomed to be nomnom'd by scarabs.

*4 shots=48/36=4/3 chance of wrecked/immobilized/stunned=4/3*2/3=8/9=88.88%chance a vehicle is stunned/wrecked/immobilized with scarabs in CC with it.

Stormteks lay down some pain, only issue is their rather short range.

schadenfreude wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:From what I've been going over, Voltaic Staffs aren't as good as people think. You have 4 shots, but you need a 6 to penetrate, then another 6 to wreck it due to the Ap-, giving you a 1/36 chance to wreck a vehicle, not taking into account the roll to hit. They don't seem as brutal as schadenfreude said.

INAT FAQ says the staff causes a glancing/penetrating hit in addition to the normal effect of the weapon. So if shot at an AV11 rhino the to pen roll is a 6 the total is 11 so the rhino takes a glancing hit at ap- which would be a -3 on the damage table, and in addition to the -3 glancing hit the vehicle takes a haywire effect which happens to be a penetrating hit with no minuses to the roll.

Math hammer on an a target with nothing but the haywire and the big picture (the vehicle is also going to be charged by scarabs, so if they autohit the vehicle is dead)

2/36 hits=wrecked
5/36= immobilized, vehicle is doomed to be nomnom'd by scarabs in the assault phase.
5/36 =stunned, vehicle is doomed to be nomnom'd by scarabs in it's controlling player's assault phase if it's not rescued.

*4 shots=28/36 chance of wrecked/immobilized=7/9*2/3(To hit roll)=14/27=52% chance the vehicle explodes or is vehicle is doomed to be nomnom'd by scarabs.

*4 shots=48/36=4/3 chance of wrecked/immobilized/stunned=4/3*2/3=8/9=88.88%chance a vehicle is stunned/wrecked/immobilized with scarabs in CC with it.

If a transport doesn't have fortitude the a simple stunned is good enough for government work, especially if the access hatches are blocked. Troops inside sit still and look stupid for a turn, then the scarabs eat their ride.

Zid wrote:Stormteks lay down some pain, only issue is their rather short range.

They're *terribly* short ranged, and it's not a hypothetical, it affects their use every time I've fielded them. I keep running into a problem using Eldritch Lances, though - the first few turns with an Imotekh list they're also very hit and miss due to Necrons not having any night sight advantages. (Thank you, GW.) So then it's not a question of 12" vs. 36", it becomes one of 12" vs. 21" maybe, 18"-15" you can be sure of. (7, 6 and 5 nightsight roll.) So that's why I'm looking at them.

Once it turns into a furball range isn't that important.

For small squads holding objectives, the typical enemy MSU squads (looking at you, Grey Hunters) can move up, dismount, and assault us off our positions. Our low initiative with small units hurts a lot. With a Voltaic Lance and Lightning Field, both the move up and assault become a lot less appealing.

Playstyle and terrain, as I mentioned earlier, also matter. I run and hide like a little gurl to give my lightning and scarabs time. So the opponent is usually coming to me. <shrug>

Maybe combine a VoD immortal squad, throw in a stormtek from a second court, teleport in, gauss and haywire on vehicles? Might help alleviate the short range issue.

I've found they work best with Lightning Field, attached with Obyron to a unit of Lychguard.
The first turn, they can Ghost Walk near a vehicle and have the Storm-tek blast it with the Haywire stick. Then, if anyone tries to charge them while the unit is waiting around for their own assault phase, they've got the D6 S8 AP5 hits to deal with.

I've only run them this way a couple times, but in both instances (DA and Orks) it worked out wonderfully.

Valkyrie wrote:So the Glancing/Penetrating hit caused by the Haywire effect doesn't suffer the Ap- penalty?

No. You only suffer the penalty if the weapon causing it has an AP -.
Since the Haywire effect is a separate thing, it doesn't have AP -.

The big issue seems to be how to effectively use them.

I'm thinking of trying a single voltaic staff in a small squad of warriors or gauss immortals as an ambush unit. Transports and drop pods for the most part will end up coming towards the necron lines. If no vehicle is within 18" there is always the option to stand still and fire gauss for a turn.

I've also run them with lychguard, remeber, if the vehicles is stunned or immobilised by the glances of haywire, th ehyperphase swords and warschythes auto hit a vehicle....

Exalted Pariah wrote:remeber, if the vehicles is stunned or immobilised by the glances of haywire, th ehyperphase swords and warschythes auto hit a vehicle....

heh, yup, that's the idea. delicious S7 power weapons with 2D6 for armor pen on a stalled Land Raider. Everyone gets out? Well, say hello to Obyron.

Exalted Pariah wrote:I've also run them with lychguard, remeber, if the vehicles is stunned or immobilised by the glances of haywire, th ehyperphase swords and warschythes auto hit a vehicle....

pretty sure hitting is determined by how much it moved last turn, so even if you immoblize it you still have to roll to hit if it moved last turn. Stunned would definitely have no effect until next turn. Now if you mean you are leaving them in contact with a vehicle after your assault turn and then it doesnt move then of course you can fight a round of combat in your opponents turn and since it hasnt moved you can auto hit. But you have to stay in btb with the vehicle instead of consolidating and that leaves you open to blast weapons.

Exergy wrote:

Exalted Pariah wrote:I've also run them with lychguard, remeber, if the vehicles is stunned or immobilised by the glances of haywire, th ehyperphase swords and warschythes auto hit a vehicle....

pretty sure hitting is determined by how much it moved last turn, so even if you immoblize it you still have to roll to hit if it moved last turn. Stunned would definitely have no effect until next turn. Now if you mean you are leaving them in contact with a vehicle after your assault turn and then it doesnt move then of course you can fight a round of combat in your opponents turn and since it hasnt moved you can auto hit. But you have to stay in btb with the vehicle instead of consolidating and that leaves you open to blast weapons.

Pg 63 of BRB says automatic hits on a vehicle that is "immobilised or was stationary in its previous turn.", so immobilized in the shooting phase and then assaulted would be auto-hit, stunned in the shooting phase and then assaulted would be hits based on prior turn's movement but will be auto-hits during the next assault phase, since the vehicle won't have moved and any surviving attackers will still be in base contact with the vehicle. Pretty good way of getting some cover and auto-hitting a vehicle, if you do it right.

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: If an Immobilised vehicle moved at Cruising speed in
its previous Movement phase, is it hit automatically in
the Assault phase? (p63)
A: Yes.
Q: If a vehicle moved during its last Movement phase,
but is immobilised by the time a models initiative value
is reached in close combat, what roll is needed to hit it?
(p63)
A: It will be hit automatically.

Immobilized in the shooting phase? auto-hit in the assault phase. It doesn't matter how far the vehicle moved on its turn. If you immobilize it at Init 4, it's auto hit on init 1.

Exergy wrote:

Exalted Pariah wrote:I've also run them with lychguard, remeber, if the vehicles is stunned or immobilised by the glances of haywire, th ehyperphase swords and warschythes auto hit a vehicle....

pretty sure hitting is determined by how much it moved last turn, so even if you immoblize it you still have to roll to hit if it moved last turn. Stunned would definitely have no effect until next turn. Now if you mean you are leaving them in contact with a vehicle after your assault turn and then it doesnt move then of course you can fight a round of combat in your opponents turn and since it hasnt moved you can auto hit. But you have to stay in btb with the vehicle instead of consolidating and that leaves you open to blast weapons.

Go read the 40k FAQ:

40k FAQ wrote:
Q: If an Immobilised vehicle moved at Cruising speed in
its previous Movement phase, is it hit automatically in
the Assault phase? (p63)
A: Yes.

40k FAQ wrote:
Q: If a vehicle moved during its last Movement phase,
but is immobilised by the time a models initiative value
is reached in close combat, what roll is needed to hit it?
(p63)
A: It will be hit automatically.

Speed last turn has no bearing on immobilised results.

Edit: Ninja'd :(

I plan to put one in a GA so I can quickly deploy troops and hold a vital area... hopefully it'll be hard to crack a defense like that

My problem is that, necrons really don't benefit very much from adding more anti infantry fire at range 24/12, or throwing a bunch more ways to get consistent glances on vehicles. I guess it's sort of exciting, in the same way having a dire avenger exarch with the extra shooting thing is sort of nice, but you aren't creating much more of a well rounded unit or list spending your unlocked dudes and limited points this way.

I haven't played them much for this reason, but heck I really ought to try them out seriously, I just really prefer having some diversity in range and strength available. I also find you subtract more hits from a charge with a gaze of flame than anything the few times I've played with the lightning ever did.

Omg these guys are awesome! I used to use just destruction crypteks but now I only take 2 for the solar pulses.

If you want to do some crazy shiz with theses guys though, stick 4 of them (one with the lightning field) with a harbinger of despair (and gear) and 5 lords with mind shackles (optional res orb) and staves of light. This is a beastly little unit that comes in at a whopping 430 points BUT it can teleport anywhere and if it gets within 12" of a vehicle has 20 haywire shots (1.6 penetrations on average and a crap ton of glances), or if against a blob (my personal favorite being gaunts or ork boyz) you get a total of 35 str 5 shots and a str 8 flamer! There arent that many units that can put out that kind of firepower! The best part is if they assault you the next turn they not only get hit by lightning but up to 5 enemy units might end up attacking themselves.
One other thing worth mentioning is that I played a tau guy using this once and I teleported right up to his kroot wall protecting his broadsides, used the morale check ability on the kroot (which fell back off the table) and then blasted the broadsides away with the mass shooting.

tautemplar wrote:I played a tau guy using this once and I teleported right up to his kroot wall protecting his broadsides, used the morale check ability on the kroot (which fell back off the table) and then blasted the broadsides away with the mass shooting.

... wait, can you even do that?
(I thought if you targeted a unit with the Morale check you had to target the same unit with everything else in the squad and couldn't target anything else that shooting phase?)

It is not a shooting attack, it just occurs during that phase. Like mind in the machine is not a shooting attack.

... innnnteresting...
*formulates combos*

One thing I was thinking was using it on a unit, if they fail put 25% casualties on them so that they auto fail the moral test at the end of the phase and have to run twice. Or in the opposite order, hit a unit that has taken 25% casualties and make em run twice potentially.

I think these chaps work best with warriors and gauss immoratls due to them both being effective for killing infantry and glancing tanks when in 12".
I like using a unit of 8-9 warriors + 1-2 Ho`Storm in a ghost ark for a necron "fish-of-fury". They do a lot of damage in rapid fire range and if they have to disembark the lightning field(s) may deter assault units. 1 or 2 D6 S8 hits probably wont scare off a tough assault unit that wants to get into a big warrior brick or full immortal squad but it can deter weaker assault units that would blow through 10 warriors.

If a unit is made to run by the Ho`Despair and also takes 25% casualties does it then automatically run a second time at the end of the phase?

The 5 Deathmarks + Ho`Despair unit could be nice to force 3 moral tests a turn (nightmare, pinning and 25% casualties)!

I think their defensive use is tremendously underrated. Offensively however, meh.

rigeld2 wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:So the Glancing/Penetrating hit caused by the Haywire effect doesn't suffer the Ap- penalty?

No. You only suffer the penalty if the weapon causing it has an AP -.
Since the Haywire effect is a separate thing, it doesn't have AP -.

Wait seriously? well then that makes them much better...

Well a full squad of gauss immortals with 2 of said crypteks doesnt sound awful. Especially out of a scythe. The squad will kill around 4 marines and way more of anything else without stealth. The destructor shooting is worth almost one and a half marine itself, and your dumb lightning fields will give you a nice illusion of safety and help scare off severely thinned squads. Might be a decent scoring unit in a list but is 320 points with its flying croissant.

Maybe you want msu though. But I'm not sure I advise throwing a bunch of upgrades on Necron troops you are planning on getting within 12 with. Unless you think they can weather some return fire or will outright kill the unit.

This unit will certainly be the bane of buggies and venoms in the weird circumstances where that's going to be helpful. It sucks not having more dedicated transport shooting to remove the transport before going to town with your short range fire though.