Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Imotekh's rules for the stormlord says that "at the start of each Necron shooting phase." Not at the start of your shooting phase. If you are playing Necrons vs Necrons do you get to roll for lightning in your opponents turn?

I would have to say no.


Although it would be pretty funny just seeing 2 comepletely static armies sitting there whiel each unit gets hit with potentially 2D6 S8 hits per turn.

If you precisely follow RAW, it looks like Imotekh is OP vs other necrons. It means you get to roll for lightning in both shooting phases.

The rule could have just as easily said "in your shooting phase" so its difficult to argue RAI for this one even.

Nemesor Dave wrote:If you precisely follow RAW, it looks like Imotekh is OP vs other necrons. It means you get to roll for lightning in both shooting phases.

The rule could have just as easily said "in your shooting phase" so its difficult to argue RAI for this one even.

Just because the two opposing armies are the same, does not mean they're the same Army.

BGB FAQ Last Question wrote: Q: Am I able to gain the benefits of any of my
opponent’s wargear or special rules, such as Teleport
Homers, Chaos Icons, Tyranid Synapse, Necron
Resurrection Orbs etc?
A: In most occasions this is clear, as the rules use the
words ‘friendly’ or ‘own’ to indicate your units, and
‘enemy’ for the opponent’s. On the other hand, some
rules clearly specify that they affect ‘friend and foe’. A
few rules are, however, slightly ambiguous as they
don’t clearly specify this distinction. As a general
principle, we recommend that you cannot use or gain
the benefits from any of the wargear or special rules of
your opponent’s army, unless specifically stated in the
rule itself (‘friend or foe’) or in an official FAQ.

@Lordhat: That doesn't really apply. We aren't using enemy wargear, nor is the enemy using our wargear.

The Lord of the Storm entry reads: In addition, whilst the Night Fighting rules are in play, roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit on the battlefield at the start of each Necron shooting phase.

If you're facing a Necron opponent, you'd get to roll during yours and the opposing Necron player's shooting phase.

The FAQ does apply, it includes "...or special rules".

I am thinking this lightning is a "special rule".

But do not get me wrong, would love to see 2 Stormlords blasting each other.

Imagine 2 tyranid armies fighting each other. Hey, I'm using your tervigon's synapse.

jy2 wrote:Imagine 2 tyranid armies fighting each other. Hey, I'm using your tervigon's synapse.

That's addressed by the FAQ directly, and is not the same as the Lord of the Storm lightning rule.

Kwi wrote:The FAQ does apply, it includes "...or special rules".

I am thinking this lightning is a "special rule".

But do not get me wrong, would love to see 2 Stormlords blasting each other.

Yes, it is a special rule of his, but only the Necron player with Imotekh is using it. The opposing Necron player (if he does not have Imotekh) cannot use the rule. The one imotekh would roll during his shooting phase and the opponent shooting phase. No one is using anyone else's rules or gear.

RAW: Blasting both turns i guess.
The wording simply says necron turn, so 2 necron armies = 2 necron turns per full game turn.

However, i would think its more likely to be FAQ'd as a friendly only rule in the end since it does seem a bit OTT.
Still, would be amusing to see though.

"In addition, whilst the Night Fighting rules remain in play,
roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit on the battlefield
at the start of each Necron Shooting Phase." Codex: Necrons, page 55.

If you are Necron player 1, and have Imotekh in your army, and your opponent is Necron player 2, wouldn't the enemy units in Necron player 2's Shooting Phase then be Necron player 1's units? So, in a sense, Necron player 2 would be using your special rules against you, which is not allowed per the preveiosly mentioned FAQ, correct?

Yeah, you are not gaining your enemies abilities at all...Ive played a 2v2 necron and me vs necron and dude...and the rule says each necron shooting phase[emphasis mine]. Lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ToBeWilly wrote:"In addition, whilst the Night Fighting rules remain in play,
roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit on the battlefield
at the start of each Necron Shooting Phase." Codex: Necrons, page 55.

If you are Necron player 1, and have Imotekh in your army, and your opponent is Necron player 2, wouldn't the enemy units in Necron player 2's Shooting Phase then be Necron player 1's units? So, in a sense, Necron player 2 would be using your special rules against you, which is not allowed per the preveiosly mentioned FAQ, correct?

The hole in this is...is what special rules let you target yourself? Imotekh is player 1. Necron bland is player 2. Irregardless, of whose turn it is, Imotekh is still on the opposing team as Necron bland. Necron bland is not benefiting from Imotekhs rule at all.

Furthermore, can you think of anything that lets you hit your enemy, every player turn, besides assault? Doom of Malan'tai is one i can think of off the top of my head...

ToBeWilly wrote:"In addition, whilst the Night Fighting rules remain in play,
roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit on the battlefield
at the start of each Necron Shooting Phase." Codex: Necrons, page 55.

If you are Necron player 1, and have Imotekh in your army, and your opponent is Necron player 2, wouldn't the enemy units in Necron player 2's Shooting Phase then be Necron player 1's units? So, in a sense, Necron player 2 would be using your special rules against you, which is not allowed per the preveiosly mentioned FAQ, correct?

Nope. I'm not entirely sure how you came to that conclusion. In what way would the enemy unit because yours? How? Why? This is an extraordinarily obtuse and roundabout way to apply the FAQ to the Lord of the Storm rule, and it doesn't work.

Necron player 1 gets his shooting phase. He rolls for lightning. Necron player 2 does not have Imotekh, and so when it is his shooting phase, Necron player 1 may use his lightning again that Necron player 2's shooting phase.

Also, if both had Imotekh, Necron player 1 would get to his shooting phase, then both would roll for lightning.

If player 2 had Imotekh, and Player 1 did not, then in Necron player 1's shooting phase, player 2 (whose turn has not come yet) would be able to use his lightning.

I am pretty sure that the entry in Imotekh rule of opponent is clear that the target is the army not containing Imotekh.
That is says "Necron shooting phase" and not "your shooting phase" has led me to think that if you play cron vs cron you get it every shooting phase.

If that rule gives so much advantage over rival necrons, don't you think it would have been made more clear, more descriptive?
LotS works only in your shooting phase. Using enemy units/army to activate your abilities, is nothing better than having enemy terminators using your teleport homer...

Can someone quote me the Doom of malan'tais ability that damages all enemy units within 6 inches every wha,t shootnig phase?

Basimpo wrote:Can someone quote me the Doom of malan'tais ability that damages all enemy units within 6 inches every wha,t shootnig phase?

It specifies friendly and enemy.

So each one right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly id have to chalk this up to the same type of flub like JotWW, a few simple words misplaced causes people to disagree with each other permanently, and vehemently. For friendly game shenanigans, id go with it.
Nada more from me

McNinja wrote:

jy2 wrote:Imagine 2 tyranid armies fighting each other. Hey, I'm using your tervigon's synapse.

That's addressed by the FAQ directly, and is not the same as the Lord of the Storm lightning rule.

Kwi wrote:The FAQ does apply, it includes "...or special rules".

I am thinking this lightning is a "special rule".

But do not get me wrong, would love to see 2 Stormlords blasting each other.

Yes, it is a special rule of his, but only the Necron player with Imotekh is using it. The opposing Necron player (if he does not have Imotekh) cannot use the rule. The one imotekh would roll during his shooting phase and the opponent shooting phase. No one is using anyone else's rules or gear.

If you read it this way then several rules in the Necron codex can be used in either player's turn. It's obvious through context that in this case "Necron Movement phase" is to be read as "controlling player's Movement phase". Rules that are meant to be used in the opponent's turn clearly state the fact with terminology such as "Opponent's turn" or "Every movement phase"; Rules that are meant to be used in the controlling player's turn will use terminology such as 'Your turn" or will call out the army that the rule was written for (as in this case).

The fact that your opponent is playing the same army as you, does not give you permission to take any actions whatsoever in your opponent's turn. In order for a rule to give you an action outside of your turn it must explicitly state that it does so.

McNinja wrote:

ToBeWilly wrote:"In addition, whilst the Night Fighting rules remain in play,
roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit on the battlefield
at the start of each Necron Shooting Phase." Codex: Necrons, page 55.

If you are Necron player 1, and have Imotekh in your army, and your opponent is Necron player 2, wouldn't the enemy units in Necron player 2's Shooting Phase then be Necron player 1's units? So, in a sense, Necron player 2 would be using your special rules against you, which is not allowed per the preveiosly mentioned FAQ, correct?

Nope. I'm not entirely sure how you came to that conclusion. In what way would the enemy unit because yours? How? Why? This is an extraordinarily obtuse and roundabout way to apply the FAQ to the Lord of the Storm rule, and it doesn't work.

Necron player 1 gets his shooting phase. He rolls for lightning. Necron player 2 does not have Imotekh, and so when it is his shooting phase, Necron player 1 may use his lightning again that Necron player 2's shooting phase.

Also, if both had Imotekh, Necron player 1 would get to his shooting phase, then both would roll for lightning.

If player 2 had Imotekh, and Player 1 did not, then in Necron player 1's shooting phase, player 2 (whose turn has not come yet) would be able to use his lightning.

Whose enemy is the rule specifying? The Necron army that includes Imotekh, or the Necron army whose shooting phase it happens to be? Context, I believe, makes that pretty clear.

I'm not about to start an argument about how the codex says X so we can use Y in any X (or whatever). Honestly, it's a bit of an exploit in the game; yeah, it's fairly obvious that by "Necron shooting phase" they mean your shooting phase, not the enemy's (I've never used it in my opponent's phase, and probably never will, unless I'm feeling like a toaster that day), but the way it is written is ambiguous and gives room for abuse. I know GW isn't exactly the industry standard for a balanced game system, but geez. Though, if I'm playing a necron opponent, I have a good mind to make sure we both have imotekh so we can just rain lightning down on everything consantly, no matter how dumb or slow it might be.

It also just occurred to me that this (being able to use it in both necron shooting phases) makes this ability several times more broken in Apoc games. Want to grind the game to a screeching halt for 20 minutes? Take Imotekh and be the biggest rules lawyer mook you can be!

McNinja wrote:I'm not about to start an argument about how the codex says X so we can use Y in any X (or whatever). Honestly, it's a bit of an exploit in the game; yeah, it's fairly obvious that by "Necron shooting phase" they mean your shooting phase, not the enemy's (I've never used it in my opponent's phase, and probably never will, unless I'm feeling like a toaster that day), but the way it is written is ambiguous and gives room for abuse. I know GW isn't exactly the industry standard for a balanced game system, but geez. Though, if I'm playing a necron opponent, I have a good mind to make sure we both have imotekh so we can just rain lightning down on everything consantly, no matter how dumb or slow it might be.

It also just occurred to me that this (being able to use it in both necron shooting phases) makes this ability several times more broken in Apoc games. Want to grind the game to a screeching halt for 20 minutes? Take Imotekh and be the biggest rules lawyer mook you can be!

Yup, it is poorly written and open to abuse.

Imagine a 4man FFA, all Necron and all with Imotekh

Exergy wrote:

McNinja wrote:I'm not about to start an argument about how the codex says X so we can use Y in any X (or whatever). Honestly, it's a bit of an exploit in the game; yeah, it's fairly obvious that by "Necron shooting phase" they mean your shooting phase, not the enemy's (I've never used it in my opponent's phase, and probably never will, unless I'm feeling like a toaster that day), but the way it is written is ambiguous and gives room for abuse. I know GW isn't exactly the industry standard for a balanced game system, but geez. Though, if I'm playing a necron opponent, I have a good mind to make sure we both have imotekh so we can just rain lightning down on everything consantly, no matter how dumb or slow it might be.

It also just occurred to me that this (being able to use it in both necron shooting phases) makes this ability several times more broken in Apoc games. Want to grind the game to a screeching halt for 20 minutes? Take Imotekh and be the biggest rules lawyer mook you can be!

Yup, it is poorly written and open to abuse.

Imagine a 4man FFA, all Necron and all with Imotekh

Lol, itd be a quick game

It'd be a hilarious game to watch.

Turn 1....LIGHTNING!!!!!!!!!
Turn 2....movement...LIGHTNING!!!!
Turn 3....game over.

Praxiss wrote:Turn 1....LIGHTNING!!!!!!!!!
Turn 2....movement...LIGHTNING!!!!
Turn 3....game over.

random luck would probably distribute the lightning unevenly. IE after turn 1, some units would be completely unharmed while others would be annilated. Of course each Imotekh would get to roll on his own to continue nightfighting, which would ensure that it never ends.

I need to convince my fellow necron players at my local GW to do this.

I think its one of those cases where RAW is actually letting you abuse a rule. I'd vote no for blasting in enemy's turn. RAI is more important in my opinion.

Raw is NOT letting you abuse a rule. In order to perform an action, any action in your opponent's turn, you must have explicit permission in the rules. LotS does not give this permission.

It gives only permission for you to do it Each necron turn. Hmmmmm

Basimpo wrote:It gives only permission for you to do it Each necron turn. Hmmmmm

LOL Dude, it totally is. (directing us to zap each other.) Just don't do it.