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2012/05/14 14:53:22
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
I've only read up to the third book but I have a question?
Spoiler:
If the magi's curse means the dragons are the only children Daenyrs will ever have, then why is she even bothering trying to retake the Iron Throne and re-establish the Targarian Dynasty? I mean for that to work she would have to marry (presumably one of the noble houses) and have a child with them. If she can't do that then even if she does take the Iron Throne it will all be for nothing.
Also, if she isn't going to have kids, do you think thats a big hint that Daenrys probably won't survive the series conclusion; since her character resolution can't involve her re-starting the Targarian Dynasty?
Obviously I'am assuming that
a-the magi wasn't lying
b-theres no other way of her having a kid
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/14 14:57:23
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2012/05/14 14:56:16
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
The curse does not say she will never have children. it says she will only have them after a series of very unlikely events happens. Like dragons returning to the world and red comets falling from the sky. So there's no guarantee it's impossible.
"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:If you read Book 5 It becomes clearer but basically she wants her birthright that was stolen by the usurper Robert Baratheon
Obviously, but its all about family in this series and if you can't bring more Targarians into the world then she'd be potentially killing A LOT of people only for Westeros to slide back into civil war once shes dead. I understand that she would want to live for herself but still.
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2012/05/14 15:17:24
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Vengeance, mostly. She had everything taken from her; her family was massacred by the rebels, her husband was killed by a spiteful old witch and she even lost her homeland. I would dare say she wants something back. And she would make a hell lot of a better ruler than the turkeys who are currently running the show.
So the curse doesn't stop her from having children? I thought it was designed to mess up her womb cause of that zombie-dragon-baby thing.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/14 15:18:29
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2012/05/14 15:26:36
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
SlaveToDorkness wrote:The curse does not say she will never have children. it says she will only have them after a series of very unlikely events happens. Like dragons returning to the world and red comets falling from the sky. So there's no guarantee it's impossible.
Well. If that is the case then she probably will have kids at some point. Plenty more high fantasy stuff is cropping up in the series so far.
Also, another question.
Spoiler:
Why does Daenyrs even need an army to invade Westeros? I mean if even one or several of the noble houses were to support her she'd be pretty much fine. Its not as if anyone else is in a better position to stake a claim; even the Starks swore fealty to the 'Dragons. I only bring it up because I really felt G RR Martin was just coming up with stuff for Daenyrs to do whilst the main plot in Westeros went on. I mean its great but the characters main point is to retake the Iron Throne and at some point cross the sea like Aegon the Conqueror. Another is that there are at least two examples of exiled British monarchs returning pretty mich on their own and without major outside influence. One is Charles the Second in 1660 who had the Parliamentary garrison in Scotland march him to London and make him King. The other was Bonnie Prince Charlie in 1745 who landed in Scotland having lost the few ships he had brought and most of the weapons bought with money leant after pawning his jewels. Nevertheless he planted his banner in the moors and several highland clans came to him. For all the good it did him in the end. So there isn't an actual reason for Daenyrs to have been kept out. For example, after Renly died the Tyrells could just as easily have sent a message across the seas and maybe one of the other houses. I suppose it is maybe too big a plot change for her to return with the Dragons and I think I read on the wiki that he was going to advance the story five years 'so the dragons could get bigger' before introducing Danny. Probably wanted the girl to make entrance.
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2012/05/14 15:34:08
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
She isn't partifcuallry resolute about reclaiming the Iron Throne, it was always her brothers obsession and the fact that she and the ex slaves who are now the majority of her subjects are in a rather precarious position means that she has other things on her mind.
I wouldn't be suprised if she even sets foot upon Westeros by the conclusion of her story. There is also a massive complicating factor that I don't think that you have reached yet.
The Tagaryens were not well respected before they fell given that they had a tendency to madness and even though they had the right to rule Robert Baratheon was seen as a hero and he had sufficent military and political support to make his position solid, at least for a while. This is why Daenerys was forced to flee. There are also lots of complicating factors, some of which are only revealed in later books.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/14 15:39:52
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
2012/05/14 15:40:46
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Vengeance, mostly. She had everything taken from her; her family was massacred by the rebels, her husband was killed by a spiteful old witch and she even lost her homeland.
I would dare say she wants something back.
And she would make a hell lot of a better ruler than the turkeys who are currently running the show.
.
This involves her first having to 'take the Iron throne', through 'Blood and Fire!'. Daenyrs will probably kill more people than all the previous wars trying to achieve that goal and with those three dragons has the means to do it; even if she would make such a lovable queen and has such a just cause. Sorry, just imagine though, people are going to themselves when they see her in obsidian plate armour like Rhaegar, riding Drogan, flanked by two equally massive dragons and over a fleet carrying a foriegn invading army. They people are more likely to run away than they are to bless the return of their rightful queen .
But if she wanted vengence then many of the people at fault are dead. Well, actually, lets just unfurl the scroll of vengence.
Tywin Lannister-betrayed her father at Kings Landing
Jamie Lannister-Killed her father
Stannis Beratheon-stole her family seat at Dragonstone and made her go into exile
The Mountain-beat her brother Rhaegars wifes son against a wall
Joffery- currently sitting on the Iron Throne as Roberts 'son'
So Lannister and Baratheon are definetly going to burn.
She could consider a few others guilty by association like Robb Stark whose father was involved. Has anyone told her that her father and brother were not nice people and that some like the Starks were basically forced to rebel against the Iron Throne? I mean the Starks have probably the least reason to be disliked by Daenyrs, excepting that they've made themselves King of the North; though, they did say that they submitted to the Dragons...
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2012/05/14 15:49:39
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Her brother had repeately told her throughout her childhood that her fathers 'madness' was just a liar planted by Robert. Some characters later in the series tell her otherwise but they don't seem to want to tell her how much of an mad old bastard her father was.
WARBOSS TZOO wrote:Grab your club, hit her over the head, and drag her back to your cave. The classics are classic for a reason.
2012/05/14 16:19:07
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
he's actually one of the Targarian children that Ned was able to save.
she'll make it to westeros, my wild guess:
Spoiler:
she and her dragons will help defeat the white walkers once and for all. her dragons will have 3 heads, hers, jons, and tyrions. Plus in a world where magic happens it is possible that she will be healed to the point where she can have kids, or the Magi was just wrong
2012/05/14 16:31:22
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
sirlynchmob wrote:well there's a rumor about jon snow:
Spoiler:
he's actually one of the Targarian children that Ned was able to save.
she'll make it to westeros, my wild guess:
Spoiler:
she and her dragons will help defeat the white walkers once and for all. her dragons will have 3 heads, hers, jons, and tyrions. Plus in a world where magic happens it is possible that she will be healed to the point where she can have kids, or the Magi was just wrong
I find the first hard to believe.
Spoiler:
Don't all Targarians have silver hair and Jon Snow is repeatedly said to look like Ned Stark? It would only be true if Ned had slept with a Targarian woman and had agreed to take the child rather than suffer Aeyrs wrath; then pass it off as his lowborn bastard. I think it has been a theme that the fathers hair-colour is most likely to be passed on so; maybe but I doubt it. Did Aerys have any daughters or female relations? Also, incest is nasty.
Well yes obv the dragons are going to be pivotal in defeating the army of ice monsters. Which is why I have my suspicions that if Dany cannot have kids that she would end up sacrificing herself in defeating them. A sad end.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/14 16:36:06
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2012/05/14 16:38:19
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Don't all Targarians have silver hair and Jon Snow is repeatedly said to look like Ned Stark? It would only be true if Ned had slept with a Targarian woman and had agreed to take the child rather than suffer Aeyrs wrath; then pass it off as his lowborn bastard. I think it has been a theme that the fathers hair-colour is most likely to be passed on so; maybe but I doubt it. Did Aerys have any daughters or female relations? Also, incest is nasty.
Well yes obv the dragons are going to be pivotal in defeating the army of ice monsters. Which is why I have my suspicions that if Dany cannot have kids that she would end up sacrificing herself in defeating them. A sad end.
Hmm, if Jon Snow were Lyanna's child after Raegar Targarian repeatedly raped her that could explain his appearence. But even then, why would Eddard lie about that. I mean Robert Baratheon loved Lyanna, would he really murder her only child? Possibly, he might view it as an insult. If she was being kept hostage then Raegar might not have bothered making it public knowledge that she had concieved his child; or he may have wanted to keep House Martell sweet. It would be neat, but I'am a bit skeptical, I don't actually know how long Rhaegar kept ahold of Lyanna and if time or position was permitting.
So you're saying that even if Daenyrs does die, the Targarian line could continue through him? Actually. If he Rhaegars son, then that would make Daenyrs his aunt and he would be the rightful King of Westeros... Be a huge plot shift I'll grant you that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/14 17:30:04
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2012/05/14 17:35:15
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Totalwar1402 wrote:
Well yes obv the dragons are going to be pivotal in defeating the army of ice monsters. Which is why I have my suspicions that if Dany cannot have kids that she would end up sacrificing herself in defeating them. A sad end.
Nothing is obvious with these books, virtually anything can happen. The dragons are not passive creatures and there is even a possiblity that someone else has an artifact with the power to control them. There is also another factor which you don't know about yet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/14 17:45:09
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
2012/05/14 17:53:15
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Palindrome wrote:She isn't partifcuallry resolute about reclaiming the Iron Throne, it was always her brothers obsession and the fact that she and the ex slaves who are now the majority of her subjects are in a rather precarious position means that she has other things on her mind.
I wouldn't be suprised if she even sets foot upon Westeros by the conclusion of her story. There is also a massive complicating factor that I don't think that you have reached yet.
The Tagaryens were not well respected before they fell given that they had a tendency to madness and even though they had the right to rule Robert Baratheon was seen as a hero and he had sufficent military and political support to make his position solid, at least for a while. This is why Daenerys was forced to flee. There are also lots of complicating factors, some of which are only revealed in later books.
Some of the Targaryens were respected and loved, Rhaegar for example. It's just they left on a bad note.
Stannis Beratheon-stole her family seat at Dragonstone and made her go into exile
Spoiler:
Good luck getting to him if she ever gets to westeros
The Mountain-beat her brother Rhaegars wifes son against a wall
Joffery- currently sitting on the Iron Throne as Roberts 'son'
Spoiler:
So Lannister and Baratheon are definetly going to burn.
She could consider a few others guilty by association like Robb Stark whose father was involved. Has anyone told her that her father and brother were not nice people and that some like the Starks were basically forced to rebel against the Iron Throne? I mean the Starks have probably the least reason to be disliked by Daenyrs, excepting that they've made themselves King of the North; though, they did say that they submitted to the Dragons...
It would be intresting trying to see her prosecute Robb Stark.
Spoiler:
And Jon snow in addition to probably being the third Targaryen (The dragon has 3 heads) he is also a good candidate to be Azor Azhai reborn.
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing
2012/05/14 18:09:02
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Browsing some stuff on the internet about this I found something really interesting..
Spoiler:
Some guy thinking Tyrion is the bastard off-spring of a Targaryen as well, with it being mentioned that one of his eyes is almost purple, and some guy found this link...
Martin might have called him Tyrion after a purple which is alluded to as being the color of some of their eyes?
Somewhat elaborate, but I liked it anyway!
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/05/14 18:48:30
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
mattyrm wrote:Browsing some stuff on the internet about this I found something really interesting..
Spoiler:
Some guy thinking Tyrion is the bastard off-spring of a Targaryen as well, with it being mentioned that one of his eyes is almost purple, and some guy found this link...
Martin might have called him Tyrion after a purple which is alluded to as being the color of some of their eyes?
Somewhat elaborate, but I liked it anyway!
Impossible. tyrion is partly hated becasue his mother died giving birth to him and I doubt Tywin Lannister would let anybody mess around with his wife and let both wife and adulterer survive.
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing
2012/05/14 19:34:41
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Even if Daenarys cannot have children she can influence the succession by choosing her heir. In any event she can try to get pregnant again once she has won her throne.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2012/05/14 19:43:54
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
mattyrm wrote:Browsing some stuff on the internet about this I found something really interesting..
Spoiler:
Some guy thinking Tyrion is the bastard off-spring of a Targaryen as well, with it being mentioned that one of his eyes is almost purple, and some guy found this link...
Martin might have called him Tyrion after a purple which is alluded to as being the color of some of their eyes?
Somewhat elaborate, but I liked it anyway!
Impossible. tyrion is partly hated becasue his mother died giving birth to him and I doubt Tywin Lannister would let anybody mess around with his wife and let both wife and adulterer survive.
Oh yeah, I forgot his mom died giving birth to him....
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/05/14 19:46:08
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:[Stannis Beratheon-stole her family seat at Dragonstone and made her go into exile
Spoiler:
Good luck getting to him if she ever gets to westeros
The Mountain-beat her brother Rhaegars wifes son against a wall
Joffery- currently sitting on the Iron Throne as Roberts 'son'
er]
Inverted commas=sarcasm
I'am sure I read that the mountain was the one who did it. The treaty/marriage alliance with the Dorne's included that he be handed over for murdering Raegars wife. So unless it was actually Jamie or Tywin Lannister who did it and simply blamed the mountain for doing the deed...
Remember I've only read part way through the third book.
Stannis...needs to die, sadly. I'am not sure even he could hide from a trio of dragons. Also, that woman of fire, Melisandre, won't she betray Stannis once she realises her mistake since the Lord of Fire, judging from her description, has to be Daenyrs by right of her ushering dragons into this world which her prophecy thing fortold?
I should probably stop asking questions about the series and just get down to reading them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Palindrome wrote:I wouldn't be suprised if she even sets foot upon Westeros by the conclusion of her story. There is also a massive complicating factor that I don't think that you have reached yet.
.
I assume one of these mitiagating circumstances involves the part I just read about her becoming Spartacus? You set up roots in the East they're going to tie you down.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/14 19:49:15
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2012/05/14 20:29:23
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Some of the Targaryens were respected and loved, Rhaegar for example. It's just they left on a bad note.
Exactly, they have been great every now and again but they also had their share of monsters, like their last king.
Tyrion is also described as being extremely like tywin Lannister in terms of personality and ability, more so than his other children.
I'm not saying anything about the 'factor' unless you really don't care about spoliers.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
2012/05/14 20:38:24
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hmm, if Jon Snow were Lyanna's child after Raegar Targarian repeatedly raped her that could explain his appearence. But even then, why would Eddard lie about that. I mean Robert Baratheon loved Lyanna, would he really murder her only child? Possibly, he might view it as an insult. If she was being kept hostage then Raegar might not have bothered making it public knowledge that she had concieved his child; or he may have wanted to keep House Martell sweet. It would be neat, but I'am a bit skeptical, I don't actually know how long Rhaegar kept ahold of Lyanna and if time or position was permitting.
So you're saying that even if Daenyrs does die, the Targarian line could continue through him? Actually. If he Rhaegars son, then that would make Daenyrs his aunt and he would be the rightful King of Westeros... Be a huge plot shift I'll grant you that.
Yeah, "raped".
Spoiler:
If Jon were Rhaegar's child, Robert (or someone else, Tywin most likely) would almost certainly have had him killed as he would have been a threat to his power. There's also a major plot twist in book 5 that makes the speculation largely moot.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/05/14 20:49:07
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hmm, if Jon Snow were Lyanna's child after Raegar Targarian repeatedly raped her that could explain his appearence. But even then, why would Eddard lie about that. I mean Robert Baratheon loved Lyanna, would he really murder her only child? Possibly, he might view it as an insult. If she was being kept hostage then Raegar might not have bothered making it public knowledge that she had concieved his child; or he may have wanted to keep House Martell sweet. It would be neat, but I'am a bit skeptical, I don't actually know how long Rhaegar kept ahold of Lyanna and if time or position was permitting.
So you're saying that even if Daenyrs does die, the Targarian line could continue through him? Actually. If he Rhaegars son, then that would make Daenyrs his aunt and he would be the rightful King of Westeros... Be a huge plot shift I'll grant you that.
Yeah, "raped".
Spoiler:
If Jon were Rhaegar's child, Robert (or someone else, Tywin most likely) would almost certainly have had him killed as he would have been a threat to his power. There's also a major plot twist in book 5 that makes the speculation largely moot.
Spoiler:
its a cliff hanger, jon is fine. my 2c anyways
2012/05/14 21:09:05
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:[Stannis Beratheon-stole her family seat at Dragonstone and made her go into exile
Spoiler:
Good luck getting to him if she ever gets to westeros
The Mountain-beat her brother Rhaegars wifes son against a wall
Joffery- currently sitting on the Iron Throne as Roberts 'son'
er]
Inverted commas=sarcasm
I'am sure I read that the mountain was the one who did it. The treaty/marriage alliance with the Dorne's included that he be handed over for murdering Raegars wife. So unless it was actually Jamie or Tywin Lannister who did it and simply blamed the mountain for doing the deed...
Remember I've only read part way through the third book.
Stannis...needs to die, sadly. I'am not sure even he could hide from a trio of dragons. Also, that woman of fire, Melisandre, won't she betray Stannis once she realises her mistake since the Lord of Fire, judging from her description, has to be Daenyrs by right of her ushering dragons into this world which her prophecy thing fortold?
I should probably stop asking questions about the series and just get down to reading them.
Spoiler:
Stannis takes a nice long trip away.
Oh and Varys meddles and deals in lots of things including bodies and Arbor Gold
dogma wrote:
Totalwar1402 wrote:
Spoiler:
Hmm, if Jon Snow were Lyanna's child after Raegar Targarian repeatedly raped her that could explain his appearence. But even then, why would Eddard lie about that. I mean Robert Baratheon loved Lyanna, would he really murder her only child? Possibly, he might view it as an insult. If she was being kept hostage then Raegar might not have bothered making it public knowledge that she had concieved his child; or he may have wanted to keep House Martell sweet. It would be neat, but I'am a bit skeptical, I don't actually know how long Rhaegar kept ahold of Lyanna and if time or position was permitting.
So you're saying that even if Daenyrs does die, the Targarian line could continue through him? Actually. If he Rhaegars son, then that would make Daenyrs his aunt and he would be the rightful King of Westeros... Be a huge plot shift I'll grant you that.
Yeah, "raped".
Spoiler:
If Jon were Rhaegar's child, Robert (or someone else, Tywin most likely) would almost certainly have had him killed as he would have been a threat to his power. There's also a major plot twist in book 5 that makes the speculation largely moot.
Spoiler:
The rumour was that Robert and Ned stole away Jon before the Lannisters knew that he had survived
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/14 21:16:14
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing
2012/05/14 21:38:05
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hmm, if Jon Snow were Lyanna's child after Raegar Targarian repeatedly raped her that could explain his appearence. But even then, why would Eddard lie about that. I mean Robert Baratheon loved Lyanna, would he really murder her only child? Possibly, he might view it as an insult. If she was being kept hostage then Raegar might not have bothered making it public knowledge that she had concieved his child; or he may have wanted to keep House Martell sweet. It would be neat, but I'am a bit skeptical, I don't actually know how long Rhaegar kept ahold of Lyanna and if time or position was permitting.
So you're saying that even if Daenyrs does die, the Targarian line could continue through him? Actually. If he Rhaegars son, then that would make Daenyrs his aunt and he would be the rightful King of Westeros... Be a huge plot shift I'll grant you that.
Yeah, "raped".
Spoiler:
If Jon were Rhaegar's child, Robert (or someone else, Tywin most likely) would almost certainly have had him killed as he would have been a threat to his power. There's also a major plot twist in book 5 that makes the speculation largely moot.
I had wondered that. Several characters around Daenyrs have made an effort to describe how intelligent, gallant n noble minded Rhaegar was (whilst side-stepping her father), which seems very at odds with how Robert n Ned described it as I recall.
Just went on the wiki actually. Says she was 'kidnapped' which could mean anything. Also the killings n arrests could probably have been pinned on Aerys rather than Raegar; guess the son was nothing like the father.
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2012/05/14 22:58:53
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
While I haven't yet read books 4 & 5, I don't think Jon is a bastard Targarian.
Spoiler:
The Starks are decended from the First Men, and I think that Jon's mother is also a distant descendant, making him the closest he could possibly be to a 'reborn' version of the First Men. Plus, his warg powers don't exactly scream 'Targarian'. Their abilities to control dragons seems to stem more from their bloodline than anything else
Honestly, I'm hoping that Tyrion & Joura become her two Dragonriders.
Tyrion because he's just 'epic win' and he's pretty much the only honourable Lannister, and Joura because of anyone, he truely loves her and would sacrifice anything for her. (Dany might keep trying to tell herself she has no such interest in him, but then, why does she always have to keep reminding herself if that's true?!)
2012/05/15 00:25:16
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
The rumour was that Robert and Ned stole away Jon before the Lannisters knew that he had survived
Ned, maybe...
Spoiler:
...but not Robert, not considering how much he hates the Targaryens. Remember he was willing to have Dany murdered.
Totalwar1402 wrote:
I had wondered that. Several characters around Daenyrs have made an effort to describe how intelligent, gallant n noble minded Rhaegar was (whilst side-stepping her father), which seems very at odds with how Robert n Ned described it as I recall.
Everyone loved Rhaegar, except Robert and Brandon (Who was ostensibly very much like Robert).
Experiment 626 wrote:While I haven't yet read books 4 & 5, I don't think Jon is a bastard Targarian.
Spoiler:
The Starks are decended from the First Men, and I think that Jon's mother is also a distant descendant, making him the closest he could possibly be to a 'reborn' version of the First Men. Plus, his warg powers don't exactly scream 'Targarian'. Their abilities to control dragons seems to stem more from their bloodline than anything else
Spoiler:
Remember that if Jon is Rhaegar's son Lyana would most likely be his mother, making him as much a Stark as a Targaryen.
Additionally, and I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I'm fairly certain the Targaryens used magic to control their dragons.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/05/15 00:29:55
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/05/15 03:21:37
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Remember that if Jon is Rhaegar's son Lyana would most likely be his mother, making him as much a Stark as a Targaryen.
Additionally, and I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I'm fairly certain the Targaryens used magic to control their dragons.
Spoiler:
The thing I can't get around though is that Ned loved his sister & was devoted to her and absolutely hated what Rhaegar did to her, as his actions directly lead to her death. I don't think Ned's honour & sense of justice would have let him really tollerate Jon if he was the product of a vicious rape. By all acounts, he had a pretty close bond to Jon Snow despite his wife's feelings.
IIRC, the Targaryens can control their dragons because they have dragon's blood, or at least 'trueborn' Targaryens do. Hence why Dany for example can't be burned by fire, because she is in part a dragon.
In the end, I still think Dany has to win the Iron Throne as she is a true dragon, and she would be the best ruler overall out of all the contenders for the throne. Hell, Drogon is said by many to be Balarion the Black reborn, hence linking Dany to Ageon the Conquerer.
2012/05/15 03:43:11
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
The thing I can't get around though is that Ned loved his sister & was devoted to her and absolutely hated what Rhaegar did to her, as his actions directly lead to her death. I don't think Ned's honour & sense of justice would have let him really tollerate Jon if he was the product of a vicious rape. By all acounts, he had a pretty close bond to Jon Snow despite his wife's feelings.
That's the thing...
Spoiler:
...I don't think she was raped. I think she went with Rhaegar willingly, or at least came to appreciate him after having been kidnapped. I also don't think Ned hated Rhaegar, at least not to the degree that Robert and Brandon did, and may well have been aware that she hadn't been kidnapped (this may also be the secret he was keeping). Moreover, even if Jon was the product of rape, I don't think it would jeopardize his relationship with Ned, especially if his dying sister asked him to care for the boy. I mean, this a man that was repulsed by the idea of killing Dany who was much older, a much greater political threat, and a significant personal risk given that refusing to have her assassinated meant going against his friend and king.
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themselves when they see her in obsidian plate armour like Rhaegar, riding Drogan, flanked by two equally massive dragons and over a fleet carrying a foriegn invading army. They people are more likely to run away than they are to bless the return of their rightful queen 
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