A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)

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**Totalwar1402**

You know, its so confusing even to the reader about where everyone stands and so grey that I don't know how poor Danny's going to be able to tell friend from foe. But I hope she doesn't make up with the Boltons and Freys because they're both massive

As Cato the Elder said of Carthage; the Freys and Boltons must be destroyed!

In fairness I do believe they are the least ambiguous and grey of all the houses; including the Lannisters and even the Greyjoys to a lesser extent. They knowingly and deliberately try to be evil and even by the standards of the medieval period have commited unforgivable acts of barbarism. They've certainly done little to endear themselves to the readers; at least this one at any rate.

**Tibbsy**

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Spoiler:

Catelyn Stark is still half-alive thanks to the sacrifice of Beric Dondarion.
the hound is dead I think and somebody has appropriated his armour.

Spoiler:

**Hlaine Larkin mk2**

Tibbsy wrote:
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Spoiler:

Catelyn Stark is still half-alive thanks to the sacrifice of Beric Dondarion.
the hound is dead I think and somebody has appropriated his armour.

Spoiler:

I forgot about Catelyn You are right there...

It was Rorge who stole the Hound's helmet, then Brienne killed him, and it was taken by one of Thoros' band (I forget the name of the individual)

The catelyn thing has had about 10 lines from the epilogue of book 3 to book 5 so it escapes quite easily as it seems inconsiderable in the grand scheme of things

**dogma**

Totalwar1402 wrote:Went on the wiki and...about Visrys little secret

Spoiler:

As long as the family is back in power she has no reason to resent Aegon.

Spoiler:

**Orlanth**

Danaerys is not immune to fire except for a specific event, she is however heat resistant, able to take hotter baths etc.

Some people are genuinely like that, up to and including fakirs who walk on coals. A lot has to do with technique and mental attitude, fire can still burn those Indian dudes though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Spoiler:

Catelyn Stark is still half-alive thanks to the sacrifice of Beric Dondarion.
the hound is dead I think and somebody has appropriated his armour.

Spoiler:

**Hazardous Harry**

Orlanth wrote:

Spoiler:

The hound is alive, but he is living as a penitent monk, for now.

My reaction when I read that bit.

Spoiler:

**Tibbsy**

Hazardous Harry wrote:
Orlanth wrote:

Spoiler:

The hound is alive, but he is living as a penitent monk, for now.

My reaction when I read that bit.

Spoiler:

Pic is broken dude

Spoiler:

**Hazardous Harry**

Tibbsy wrote:

Pic is broken dude

Strange, it's showing up fine on my end. You didn't miss much, only a shocked Bruce Lee.

**sirlynchmob**

ok slightly off topic, tonights show really bugged me for:

Spoiler:

**Totalwar1402**

sirlynchmob wrote:ok slightly off topic, tonights show really bugged me for:

Spoiler:

WTF, why did they have Cat release the king slayer before she found out her boys were deadish. It really cheapens the motives for her releasing him. Would it have been to much trouble to have her receive word that theon had killed her boys? well kind of

Spoiler:

**d-usa**

Totalwar1402 wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:ok slightly off topic, tonights show really bugged me for:

Spoiler:

WTF, why did they have Cat release the king slayer before she found out her boys were deadish. It really cheapens the motives for her releasing him. Would it have been to much trouble to have her receive word that theon had killed her boys? well kind of

Spoiler:

Its because its a much more dramatic cliffhanger to have ended that episode when you see the kids bodies. I suppose they should have released Jamie next episode but they were probably pushed for time.

They have two more episodes.

Spoiler:

**Hlaine Larkin mk2**

d-usa wrote:
Totalwar1402 wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:ok slightly off topic, tonights show really bugged me for:

Spoiler:

WTF, why did they have Cat release the king slayer before she found out her boys were deadish. It really cheapens the motives for her releasing him. Would it have been to much trouble to have her receive word that theon had killed her boys? well kind of

Spoiler:

Its because its a much more dramatic cliffhanger to have ended that episode when you see the kids bodies. I suppose they should have released Jamie next episode but they were probably pushed for time.

They have two more episodes.

Spoiler:

My guess is that the next episode will focus the majority of the action on the siege of Kings Landing and the battle involved in that. From the previews it looks like that episode probably ate up the majority of the budged as well

The last episode will most likely focus on Danny getting her dragons back.

With those being the main points of the next two episodes they can spend a little time building the dynamic between Jamie and Brien, the dynamic between Rob and his new lady, John Snow and the wildlings, and the Stark boys in the dungeon.

My prediction for cliff hangers will be:

-Tyrion getting lost in battle. (I think him killing his dad would be a better cliffhanger, but I don't think the time is there to develop that plot)
-Danny being reunited with her dragons.
-John Snow making his kill.
-The Others attacking the Night's Watch.
-At least a confrontation at Winterfell, although I don't think it will be burned this season.

that'd be shooting themsleves in the foot if they wrapped all that in 2 episodes, the Tyrion one will definitely not be done till S3 at the earliest.

And Dany's stroyline has gone to hell, most likely she won't get her dragons becuase of the writing in this season

**Orlanth**

sirlynchmob wrote:ok slightly off topic, tonights show really bugged me for:

Spoiler:

WTF, why did they have Cat release the king slayer before she found out her boys were deadish. It really cheapens the motives for her releasing him. Would it have been to much trouble to have her receive word that theon had killed her boys? well kind of

Ravens only travel so fast and the telephone system between Winterfell and Robbs camp is somewhat lacking. One event can easily post date the other by a few days. Remember this series really ignores/speeds up travel times, Westeros is vast.

**sirlynchmob**

Orlanth wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:ok slightly off topic, tonights show really bugged me for:

Spoiler:

WTF, why did they have Cat release the king slayer before she found out her boys were deadish. It really cheapens the motives for her releasing him. Would it have been to much trouble to have her receive word that theon had killed her boys? well kind of

Ravens only travel so fast and the telephone system between Winterfell and Robbs camp is somewhat lacking. One event can easily post date the other by a few days. Remember this series really ignores/speeds up travel times, Westeros is vast.

Spoiler:

**Experiment 626**

d-usa wrote:

Spoiler:

My guess is that the next episode will focus the majority of the action on the siege of Kings Landing and the battle involved in that. From the previews it looks like that episode probably ate up the majority of the budged as well

The last episode will most likely focus on Danny getting her dragons back.

With those being the main points of the next two episodes they can spend a little time building the dynamic between Jamie and Brien, the dynamic between Rob and his new lady, John Snow and the wildlings, and the Stark boys in the dungeon.

My prediction for cliff hangers will be:

-Tyrion getting lost in battle. (I think him killing his dad would be a better cliffhanger, but I don't think the time is there to develop that plot)
-Danny being reunited with her dragons.
-John Snow making his kill.
-The Others attacking the Night's Watch.
-At least a confrontation at Winterfell, although I don't think it will be burned this season.

Spoiler:

At least, that's my personal prediction!

On another note; (don't click this unless you really want a huge spoiler!!!)

Spoiler:

**Totalwar1402**

Wouldn't they try to condense Storm of Swords into one season?

**Hlaine Larkin mk2**

Experiment 626 wrote:
d-usa wrote:

Spoiler:

My guess is that the next episode will focus the majority of the action on the siege of Kings Landing and the battle involved in that. From the previews it looks like that episode probably ate up the majority of the budged as well

The last episode will most likely focus on Danny getting her dragons back.

With those being the main points of the next two episodes they can spend a little time building the dynamic between Jamie and Brien, the dynamic between Rob and his new lady, John Snow and the wildlings, and the Stark boys in the dungeon.

My prediction for cliff hangers will be:

-Tyrion getting lost in battle. (I think him killing his dad would be a better cliffhanger, but I don't think the time is there to develop that plot)
-Danny being reunited with her dragons.
-John Snow making his kill.
-The Others attacking the Night's Watch.
-At least a confrontation at Winterfell, although I don't think it will be burned this season.

Spoiler:

Next episode is pretty much the entirety of the Blackwater campaign. My bet is they leave it off with Ser Mandon taking aim at Tyrion's head!

The season ender, "Valar Morgulis", I think will incorperate;
a) Dany's journy through the House of the Undying & Drogon going ape nuts!
b) Snow vs Half-Hand and his 'betrayal' of the Watch
c) Arya recieving the iron coin from Jaquen Hagar and learning of the words she'll need later on 'Valar Morgulis' (kinda a givaway I think due to the episode's title! )
d) Winterfell being attacked by the Bastard of Bolten, maybe even going so far as having that sniviling little coward Theon being dragged before the Bastard of Bolten!
e) The final scene being the confrontation between Chet & Samwell and then hearing the three blasts of the horn signifying an attack by 'The Others'.

At least, that's my personal prediction!

On another note; (don't click this unless you really want a huge spoiler!!!)

Spoiler:

Season 3 I bet will end with Joffry's death and Cersi demanding Tyrion be arrested!

Season 4 will end with the 'Red Wedding'

S4 would be too late for that particular event, both will be at the end of S3

**Experiment 626**

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
Experiment 626 wrote:
d-usa wrote:

Spoiler:

My guess is that the next episode will focus the majority of the action on the siege of Kings Landing and the battle involved in that. From the previews it looks like that episode probably ate up the majority of the budged as well

The last episode will most likely focus on Danny getting her dragons back.

With those being the main points of the next two episodes they can spend a little time building the dynamic between Jamie and Brien, the dynamic between Rob and his new lady, John Snow and the wildlings, and the Stark boys in the dungeon.

My prediction for cliff hangers will be:

-Tyrion getting lost in battle. (I think him killing his dad would be a better cliffhanger, but I don't think the time is there to develop that plot)
-Danny being reunited with her dragons.
-John Snow making his kill.
-The Others attacking the Night's Watch.
-At least a confrontation at Winterfell, although I don't think it will be burned this season.

Spoiler:

Next episode is pretty much the entirety of the Blackwater campaign. My bet is they leave it off with Ser Mandon taking aim at Tyrion's head!

The season ender, "Valar Morgulis", I think will incorperate;
a) Dany's journy through the House of the Undying & Drogon going ape nuts!
b) Snow vs Half-Hand and his 'betrayal' of the Watch
c) Arya recieving the iron coin from Jaquen Hagar and learning of the words she'll need later on 'Valar Morgulis' (kinda a givaway I think due to the episode's title! )
d) Winterfell being attacked by the Bastard of Bolten, maybe even going so far as having that sniviling little coward Theon being dragged before the Bastard of Bolten!
e) The final scene being the confrontation between Chet & Samwell and then hearing the three blasts of the horn signifying an attack by 'The Others'.

At least, that's my personal prediction!

On another note; (don't click this unless you really want a huge spoiler!!!)

Spoiler:

Season 3 I bet will end with Joffry's death and Cersi demanding Tyrion be arrested!

Season 4 will end with the 'Red Wedding'

S4 would be too late for that particular event, both will be at the end of S3

HBO has already said that they are going to do A Storm of Swords as two seasons, simply because there's far too much to even think of condensing into just a single 10 episode season.
Hell, if they tried, they'd end up butchering the book and turning it into some pile of steaming crap like what happened to The Deathly Hallows part 2!

I'm betting that instead of filming A Feast for Crows on it's own, the series producers will just insert those relevent elements into books three & five while dedicating 2 seasons to each respective book.
Book 4 on it's own is just far too boring to be a stand alone season.

**Hlaine Larkin mk2**

I know but the wedding happens like half way through book 3 so would be a better end to S3 as Robb doesn't have too much stuff anway

**biccat**

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:I know but the wedding happens like half way through book 3 so would be a better end to S3 as Robb doesn't have too much stuff anway

Spoiler:

**Hlaine Larkin mk2**

Spoiler:

**Tibbsy**

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Spoiler:

Started reading aDoD again and a though crossed my mind........

Could Coldhands be Benjin Stark?

Discuss

Spoiler:

**Hlaine Larkin mk2**

Tibbsy wrote:
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Spoiler:

Started reading aDoD again and a though crossed my mind........

Could Coldhands be Benjin Stark?

Discuss

Spoiler:

I always thought it might have been whilst I was reading it, I think it's hinted at.. But really, Bran would have recognised him wouldn't he? Or did he keep his face covered, I can't remember...

Spoiler:

**Orlanth**

sirlynchmob wrote:

Spoiler:

true, but thats not the point I was going for. cat only decided to release the kingslayer in the book because she had found out bran and rickon were dead. so she was with her last son and her two daughters were being held captive, that emotional turmoil led to her releasing him. to just up and release him while she still thinks her boys are fine just seems out of character for her.

It simplified the reasons, Cat also did what she did because she didn't trust the Karstarks to stay their hand.

**Grakmar**

What do we know about Coldhands:

Spoiler:

And, what can we deduce?

Spoiler:

Coldhands is/was a member of the Watch, and he is (un)dead. He's not exactly a wight, but he's incredibly similar to them.

How, exactly, he retained intelligence is an unanswered question. Perhaps he's being controlled or been granted a gift by an outside force through magical means. Perhaps the Children have an opposite to the Other's Wights and Coldhands is just one of them. And, perhaps Coldhands is a wight that was warged into, either by another warger or by himself (possibly warging into a familiar in the middle).

Benjen is the obvious candidate, except for numbers 4, 12, and 15. He's not quite old enough to be attached to the ancient knowledge and references. Benjen is almost too obvious, and could well be a red herring. He's been mentioned too many times to never be seen again, but that doesn't mean he's Coldhands. There's also the problem of the eyes (number 11). Benjen had blue eyes when alive. But, perhaps Sam meant that Coldhands doesn't have the unearthly blue that the wights have, even though he had natural blue eyes.

Brynden Rivers, aka Bloodraven, is another candidate. Although he's the three-eyed-crow, it's possible he's warging into multiple people at once. He's been dead ~100 years, so he qualifies for the old references. The main point against him is that he's already helping Bran through 1 vehicle, why would he need another? Bran and Co. wouldn't know his face, but it could be that he's just hiding it due to decay or injuries making him really unpleasant to look at.

A miscellaneous long-dead Stark is another possibility. He'd be ancient, and could have been a member of the watch, so most issues are covered. Starks are known to be wargers, so they all seem likely candidates. And, Bran would be able to recognize him due to seeing his statue in the crypt. The main strike against this is that Coldhand's identity has been a mystery for quite a while, and this seems like a cop-out (unless it turns out to be someone specific we've heard about... Bran the Builder?)

The Night's King has also been mentioned. He was a member of the Watch and ended up working with the Others. He even married one of them and gave her his soul. Perhaps he was granted a gift of retained intelligence, and over the years decided to work against the Others? (Unless the Children are in league with the Others...) But, this doesn't explain hiding his face. And, he lived in a time when the Others were more understood, so his body probably would have been burned once they knew he was working with the Others.

And, finally, there's the possibility that Coldhands isn't anyone special. He's just an unnamed member of the Night's Watch. This does fit almost everything (other than the face-hiding, but that could just be due to cosmetic reasons), but it would be a very, very disappointing answer to the mystery that's been building for a few books now.