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2012/05/16 15:09:42
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
I can't remember if it was only in the TV show, but wasn't she completely fine when she touched the smouldering hot eggs? And ESPECIALLY the case in the final book would imply that Dany is immune from fire permanently, not just during the dragon's birth.
sebster wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Its a known fact that Aussies are genetically disposed towards crime, we intentionally set them up that way.
But only awesome crimes like bushranging and, if I understand the song correctly, sheep stealing and suicide.
2012/05/16 15:15:49
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hazardous Harry wrote:I can't remember if it was only in the TV show, but wasn't she completely fine when she touched the smouldering hot eggs? And ESPECIALLY the case in the final book would imply that Dany is immune from fire permanently, not just during the dragon's birth.
Hazardous Harry wrote:I can't remember if it was only in the TV show, but wasn't she completely fine when she touched the smouldering hot eggs? And ESPECIALLY the case in the final book would imply that Dany is immune from fire permanently, not just during the dragon's birth.
The egg scene was TV show only.
Still, the latest book has...
Spoiler:
Her hair all burnt off again, but herself pretty much untouched.
sebster wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Its a known fact that Aussies are genetically disposed towards crime, we intentionally set them up that way.
But only awesome crimes like bushranging and, if I understand the song correctly, sheep stealing and suicide.
2012/05/16 15:21:56
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hazardous Harry wrote:I can't remember if it was only in the TV show, but wasn't she completely fine when she touched the smouldering hot eggs? And ESPECIALLY the case in the final book would imply that Dany is immune from fire permanently, not just during the dragon's birth.
The egg scene was TV show only.
Still, the latest book has...
Spoiler:
Her hair all burnt off again, but herself pretty much untouched.
Yup. There's something going on with Dany and fire. But, what or why isn't entirely clear at this point.
Pointing to other characters that aren't immune to fire and claiming they aren't Targaryen isn't valid.
Hazardous Harry wrote:
I'd disagree, given that R'hollor is one of the few dieties that actually seems to communicate with his followers. Perhaps the two are simply misinterpreting the same vision?
I'll all say is...
Spoiler:
...that Thoros seemed awfully dumbstruck when he was able to bring Berric back to life.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/16 15:24:09
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2012/05/16 15:34:12
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Mirri Maz Duur never cursed Dany with never having children again. The quote is:
A Game of Thrones wrote:"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."
That's not exactly a curse. It's more of a prophecy
Spoilers for ADWD:
Spoiler:
Sun rising in the west and setting is Quentyn (with a Sun for a sigil) coming from the west and dying in the east.
Seas going dry refers to the Dothraki sea being in a bad drought.
The mountains blowing in the wind refers to the pyramids her dragons are turning to ash.
And, she either had a really heavy period or a miscarriage. So, her womb has quickened once again.
The only remaining piece is that she needs to bear a living child, and then Khal Drogo will return.
Mirri Maz Duur never cursed Dany with never having children again. The quote is:
A Game of Thrones wrote:"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."
That's not exactly a curse. It's more of a prophecy
Spoilers for ADWD:
Spoiler:
Sun rising in the west and setting is Quentyn (with a Sun for a sigil) coming from the west and dying in the east.
Seas going dry refers to the Dothraki sea being in a bad drought.
The mountains blowing in the wind refers to the pyramids her dragons are turning to ash.
And, she either had a really heavy period or a miscarriage. So, her womb has quickened once again.
The only remaining piece is that she needs to bear a living child, and then Khal Drogo will return.
Well that seals it then. Dany is going to have another kid at some point.
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2012/05/17 07:32:01
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hazardous Harry wrote:That is sort of simplifying it, Queen Elizabeth was adamant about ensuring England would remain a Protestant nation. That might have been her lasting legacy, certainly it's outlasted the dynasty of James.
Well yeah it's simplifying things, thought it'd be a bit much to write a 15,000 word essay on Elizabeth just to make a comparison to a fantasy book series.
I don't know how you think her desire to keep England a protestant nation changes anything I said. Point is despite having no children, Elizabeth showed plenty of resolve to maintain her power, because there are plenty of reasons to want the throne other than to leave it to your children (and wanting England to be a protestant nation is one such example).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grakmar wrote:The egg scene was TV show only.
It's been forever since I read the first book and now the books and series are all mixed up in my head, so can anyone me... when Viserys is killed by Drogo with molten gold, Daenyrs in the series gives a line that no true Targaryen would die by fire, or something to that effect. I kind of remember it being the book, it's definitely in the series, but now with what people are saying here I'm left wondering if that line was only in the series?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 10:09:09
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2012/05/17 12:48:28
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hazardous Harry wrote:That is sort of simplifying it, Queen Elizabeth was adamant about ensuring England would remain a Protestant nation. That might have been her lasting legacy, certainly it's outlasted the dynasty of James.
Well yeah it's simplifying things, thought it'd be a bit much to write a 15,000 word essay on Elizabeth just to make a comparison to a fantasy book series.
I don't know how you think her desire to keep England a protestant nation changes anything I said. Point is despite having no children, Elizabeth showed plenty of resolve to maintain her power, because there are plenty of reasons to want the throne other than to leave it to your children (and wanting England to be a protestant nation is one such example).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grakmar wrote:The egg scene was TV show only.
It's been forever since I read the first book and now the books and series are all mixed up in my head, so can anyone me... when Viserys is killed by Drogo with molten gold, Daenyrs in the series gives a line that no true Targaryen would die by fire, or something to that effect. I kind of remember it being the book, it's definitely in the series, but now with what people are saying here I'm left wondering if that line was only in the series?
She says he didn't have "The Blood of The Dragon".
I'm gonna go out on limb and say that's a magical manifestation in Targaryen Blood from old Volantis
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2012/05/17 15:26:00
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
I always felt that was her more coming to terms with the fact that he had abused her all those years. She says something along the lines of "he was no dragon". It's more about putting her childhood fears behind. Or at least that's the way I read it. I guess it could have been more direct....
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2012/05/17 23:19:05
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
BTW am I the only one who thinks the Dragons in the books are ridiculously cute. I especially liked the bit where Viserys tried to climb onto Danerys shoulder even though he was too large.
By a Dance with Dragons are they basically as big as the Dragons of Skyrim?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 23:25:53
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2012/05/18 00:14:24
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Totalwar1402 wrote:BTW am I the only one who thinks the Dragons in the books are ridiculously cute. I especially liked the bit where Viserys tried to climb onto Danerys shoulder even though he was too large.
By a Dance with Dragons are they basically as big as the Dragons of Skyrim?
Two of them are still pretty small, which may be due to their captivity, but they're certainly large enough to snatch up sheep and...
Spoiler:
small children
However the largest of them (the name escapes me) is certainly at least as big as that by the end.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/18 00:14:52
sebster wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Its a known fact that Aussies are genetically disposed towards crime, we intentionally set them up that way.
But only awesome crimes like bushranging and, if I understand the song correctly, sheep stealing and suicide.
2012/05/18 00:20:17
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Totalwar1402 wrote:BTW am I the only one who thinks the Dragons in the books are ridiculously cute. I especially liked the bit where Viserys tried to climb onto Danerys shoulder even though he was too large.
By a Dance with Dragons are they basically as big as the Dragons of Skyrim?
Two of them are still pretty small, which may be due to their captivity, but they're certainly large enough to snatch up sheep and...
Spoiler:
small children
However the largest of them (the name escapes me) is certainly at least as big as that by the end.
Drogon.
AKA Alduin
That can't have been easy for Danny. I suppose nothings ever easy with GRR Martin's story is it.
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2012/05/18 02:06:11
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Hulksmash wrote:I always felt that was her more coming to terms with the fact that he had abused her all those years. She says something along the lines of "he was no dragon". It's more about putting her childhood fears behind. Or at least that's the way I read it. I guess it could have been more direct....
Thanks. I took it that she wasn't just moving past him because of his abuse of her, but also because she was, at that point, married to a man of real strength and real will, and this made her see how weak her brother really was.
He was a bastard who abused her, but worse than that he was a weak bastard who could never have reclaimed his birthright.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2012/05/18 12:46:47
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
BTW its probably nothing, but about Jon Snows parentage
Spoiler:
I was reading the first book and theres a bit where Ned dreams of Lyanna saying 'Promise me' and Ned mentions that she wears a garland of pale blue flowers. Now I think I also remember Melisandre, that witch with Stannis making a prophecy of a blue rose growing out of the wall. I don't know, maybe theres some kind of metaphor about blue roses and Jon Snow coming of age at the Wall.
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2012/05/18 13:04:46
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Totalwar1402 wrote:BTW its probably nothing, but about Jon Snows parentage
Spoiler:
I was reading the first book and theres a bit where Ned dreams of Lyanna saying 'Promise me' and Ned mentions that she wears a garland of pale blue flowers. Now I think I also remember Melisandre, that witch with Stannis making a prophecy of a blue rose growing out of the wall. I don't know, maybe theres some kind of metaphor about blue roses and Jon Snow coming of age at the Wall.
The actual prophecy comes from Dany's time at the House of the Undying. It's one of her visions.
It says:
Spoiler:
A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.
My analysis:
Spoiler:
The Blue Flower is linked to both Lyanna Stark and the tale of Bael the Bard. Bael eloped with a Stark and had a child with her. The wall is clearly referring to Jon. So, it indicated Jon is linked to Lyanna, and her running off with someone (Rhaegar is most likely).
In terms of it growing from the wall... I assume that is going to be pretty literal. Link it with Bran's vision, where "He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him." I think it's fairly clear that Jon is going to be placed in an ice cell in the wall, before he is reborn as Azor Ahai.
I don't know, its very interesting as a development in Visyrs character and explains why hes acted with a purpose thats never been disclosed till now; he is devoted to serving the Targarians. But I don't like how Aegon's invasion of Westeros has kind of stolen Danerys thunder. I mean the last five or six books were building up to her getting to Westeros, which is still going to be a while with her stuck with the Dothraki again and then another Targarian does in a few chapters what she hasn't been able to do this whole time? Kinda makes the character irrelevent after a very lengthy development. I mean, what, shes going to sort out things on the slaver coast and with the Dothraki then goes West to find her, nephew , on the Iron Throne and is just going to end up marrying this bloke. Sure she'd be bringing the dragons to Westeros but for me the dynastic struggle has always taken precedence over all other plotlines and that development makes Dany have no bearing on this; as Rhaegars son, Aegon has the better claim than a woman. From what I read on the wiki I can't imagine a situation where Aegon wouldn't marry Danny and has no intention of fighting her, he only invaded so that he could approach her as an equal; whilst Danny herself would probably be overjoyed to be with another Targarian. As long as the family is back in power she has no reason to resent Aegon.
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2012/05/18 16:04:44
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning.
Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.
Grakmar wrote:No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning.
Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.
.
Spoiler:
So you're saying Varys is a warlock and his whole plot was to put puppet Targarians onto the throne and control the dragons.
BTW I'am guessing
Kraken=Greyjoy (Theon?)
dark flame/suns son=Stannis or Melisandre
lion=Cersei and Jamie Lannister (can't imagine why Tyrion would try to betray Daenerys)
Griffon=Is that House Martell or Tyrell?
No idea who the rest are...
So basically, because everyone whos left in Westeros in power is a jerk and an idiot they'll try to hack off the woman with three dragons for no reason? Has everyone completely forgotten in that universe what the last three big dragons did? The woman has a sword, giving her a reason to use it is suicide. All they have to do is side with Aegon and rely on Danny's good nature. Unless they're tools and think Danny will try to seize power anyway so try to assasinate her; again.
Personally I want to see Daenerys destroy the Boltons and the Freys. But the way things are going, I imagine the story will be pretty much over by the time Daenerys gets to Westeros. The only ones she'd need vengence against are Jamie and Stannis; the latter only partly.
I honestly don't know who would or wouldn't be counted as a friend by Daenyrs anymore. Most of the factions are ran by self-interested jerks, most of the honourable members like Tyrion and Jamie are marginalized whilst others like the Boltons and Freys are evil scum who deserve to be slaughtered. I'am actually a bit more forgiving of Petyre Baelish and I think he'll want to get revenge on the Freys for what they did to Catelyn; he'd also want Harrenhal off the Boltons I imagine. Theon Greyjoys no Bolton or Frey, but he burnt kids alive.
edit-Just went on a prophecy site. So, are you saying he isn't really Aegon; or are you saying they brought him back to life like Catelyn? Mummers Dragon implies a false dragon ac to that site.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/18 16:41:49
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2012/05/18 16:46:27
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Sun's Son could be house Martell I think since their House Symbol is a Sun
Spoiler:
I also think Dany will feel with the news of the invasion of westeros and discovering Victarion and his ships she will sail to westeros to finish the invasion, and of course Varys will slit a few throats: a pity, Tommen was nowhere near as evil or sadistic as his brother
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/18 16:49:08
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2012/05/18 16:48:48
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Grakmar wrote:No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning.
Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.
.
Spoiler:
So you're saying Varys is a warlock and his whole plot was to put puppet Targarians onto the throne and control the dragons.
BTW I'am guessing
Kraken=Greyjoy (Theon?)
dark flame/suns son=Stannis or Melisandre
lion=Cersei and Jamie Lannister (can't imagine why Tyrion would try to betray Daenerys)
Griffon=Is that House Martell or Tyrell?
No idea who the rest are...
So basically, because everyone whos left in Westeros in power is a jerk and an idiot they'll try to hack off the woman with three dragons for no reason? Has everyone completely forgotten in that universe what the last three big dragons did? The woman has a sword, giving her a reason to use it is suicide. All they have to do is side with Aegon and rely on Danny's good nature. Unless they're tools and think Danny will try to seize power anyway so try to assasinate her; again.
Personally I want to see Daenerys destroy the Boltons and the Freys. But the way things are going, I imagine the story will be pretty much over by the time Daenerys gets to Westeros. The only ones she'd need vengence against are Jamie and Stannis; the latter only partly.
I honestly don't know who would or wouldn't be counted as a friend by Daenyrs anymore. Most of the factions are ran by self-interested jerks, most of the honourable members like Tyrion and Jamie are marginalized whilst others like the Boltons and Freys are evil scum who deserve to be slaughtered. I'am actually a bit more forgiving of Petyre Baelish and I think he'll want to get revenge on the Freys for what they did to Catelyn; he'd also want Harrenhal off the Boltons I imagine. Theon Greyjoys no Bolton or Frey, but he burnt kids alive.
edit-Just went on a prophecy site. So, are you saying he isn't really Aegon; or are you saying they brought him back to life like Catelyn? Mummers Dragon implies a false dragon ac to that site.
Spoiler:
The sun's son is Quentyn Martell, the Griffon is Jon Connington, and the Mummers Dragon is, I assume, Aegon.
2012/05/18 16:48:55
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
I think Petyr Baelish might bring the Vale into the fight. He is the lesser evil to the Boltons and Freys who will always go with the sure winner; they'd abandon Lannister along with the Tyrells. He would also scheme against Varys so backing the other Targarian would make sense. The Lannisters also denied what was promised him at Harrenhal.
Jamie Lannister. If Cersei n her children die he could use his brother Tyrion to ask a Royal Pardon. Granted, he is top of the Scrolls of Vengence but still he seems to be getting more sympathetic as a character and if Varys Aegon puppet wants him and his family dead. Its a big maybe I suppose.
Those out of power
Sansa Stark-its hard to see why Danny wouldn't sympathise with Sansa. There are quite a lot of parrallels. Same goes for Arya though shes walking a very different path with those assasians.
The Greyjoys; Theon and Asha. I might be wrong, but hasn't the one you mentioned earlier usurped their fathers control of the Iron Islands. Plus a Targarian could genuinely acknowledge them as rulers of the Iron Islands.
Are there any Tulleys left?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/18 17:18:43
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2012/05/18 17:17:42
Subject: Re:A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
Totalwar1402 wrote:So who can she trust and might join her?
Spoiler:
I think Petyr Baelish might bring the Vale into the fight. He is the lesser evil to the Boltons and Freys who will always go with the sure winner; they'd abandon Lannister along with the Tyrells. He would also scheme against Varys so backing the other Targarian would make sense. The Lannisters also denied what was promised him at Harrenhal.
Jamie Lannister. If Cersei n her children die he could use his brother Tyrion to ask a Royal Pardon. Granted, he is top of the Scrolls of Vengence but still he seems to be getting more sympathetic as a character and if Varys Aegon puppet wants him and his family dead. Its a big maybe I suppose.
I really like Jaime's character developmental as he becomes a proper character instead of the whole 1 dimensional character from books 1&2 and actually seems like a genuinely kind person.
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2012/05/18 17:20:03
Subject: A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)
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I especially liked the bit where Viserys tried to climb onto Danerys shoulder even though he was too large.
, on the Iron Throne and is just going to end up marrying this bloke. Sure she'd be bringing the dragons to Westeros but for me the dynastic struggle has always taken precedence over all other plotlines and that development makes Dany have no bearing on this; as Rhaegars son, Aegon has the better claim than a woman. From what I read on the wiki I can't imagine a situation where Aegon wouldn't marry Danny and has no intention of fighting her, he only invaded so that he could approach her as an equal; whilst Danny herself would probably be overjoyed to be with another Targarian. As long as the family is back in power she has no reason to resent Aegon.
