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13) Necron Warriors have the same basic statline they had before except they now have a 4+ save. Now before you go crazy, also note that their points cost is 12 points, which is a 1/3 price drop (down from 18 points). That means you get 1/3 more Warrior models in the army for the same amount of points...it also makes losing an entire unit due to sweeping advance, not nearly as painful.

I know a lot of cynical people will hate this and accuse GW from simply making the change to sell more Warrior models, and you could be right. But personally I was always hoping they were going to make Necron Warriors not quite as tough and dump the points cost on them, so you could really take a ton of them...given in my mind they are supposed to be more like a shambling horde of undead robots than some sort of small elite force of super-warriors (but that could just be me).

So this change alone totally changes the army from out of the 'MEQ' umbrella and makes their base statline unique in the game (which is good, IMHO).

Your darned right! They needed to be cheaper but now they die to heavy bolters?

14) Immortals have lost their T5 (down to T4), but keep their 3+ save. However, their points cost has dropped to 17 pts a model, which is an 11 point drop (more than 1/3 a drop from the previous cost of 28 pts)!

So immortals are essentially *old* necron warriors but will be probably be on large bases and cost £20.50 for 5 I'm guessing which is SUXXOR!

15) All units in the army benefit from the new WBB rule, not just the units that were formerly classified as 'Necrons' in the current codex (even Scarabs!). So although you're only getting a 5+ save in many cases, you're still getting it on some of the more expensive stuff in the army as well (and there are some pricey new units to counterbalance the relatively cheap Warriors and Immortals). Also the vehicle that can add models back into the unit is also able to use this ability on any unit.


15) Rez Orb is still in the game and boosts the new WBB rule to a 4+ instead of a 5+, but only affects the unit it is in. I have a strong suspicion that this is an upgrade that Crypteks can take (I'll confirm if I find out), so I'd imagine you can get quite a few units in the game getting the 4+ bonus save if you want to pay the points to take them for your Crypteks and then split those Crypteks off to lead units.

Is WBB still negated by power weapons or ID? As if it is then the whole thing seems sucky.

16) Veil of Darkness is now definitely something Crypteks can take (so you can have a bunch of 'em in the army), but it no longer allows a unit to be pulled out of combat (and neither does the Monolith), except in the case of the Veil carried by one of the named Lords.

YAY maneouverability!

17) In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power. They're naturally still a really mean Monstrous Creature who rocks in combat, but you can also purchase a bunch of different abilities. These abilities are in line with a lot of the things we've seen in the last few codexes, things like: messing around with Deep Striking enemy units, making enemies moving through terrain differently, and allowing the Necron player to change some of his deployment, etc. So it sounds like you have a lot of different options with the C'Tan that really mess with the enemy army and/or supplement your own. And they are not one per army (so you can have 3 if you want to use up all your Elites on them, although it sounds like the other Elites choices are pretty awesome as well).

Sounds reasonable - like a 'bound' C'Tan
g run down in combat, and it looks like that will remain a big Achilles heel.

20) Scarabs sound great. They are cheap, have the new WBB rule, move like beasts and have an ability that erodes enemy armor when they get into combat with it. Any non-vehicle model they wound, but don't kill, has its armor save turned to a dash (i.e. nothing) for the rest of the game. If they hit a vehicle, on a 4+ the vehicle loses a point of armor value on ALL facings, and if any facing is reduced to zero, then the vehicle is destroyed (I'm not sure if this ability kicks in for each hit they get on the vehicle, or just once no matter how many hits they cause). There are some items in the army that also have a similar ability to erode armor, including one of the C'Tan powers.

So it sounds like Scarabs may play a major role in most Necron armies!

Good - they need it. Also FYI OLD scarabs (the ones with no bases) used to latch on and either eat armor or else detonate and blow through the armour (like flying bombs!) so that seems feasable.

21) Overall, CC is definitely still the weak point of the army, but it looks like they've got a lot of different places they can take special rules to slow down or screw with approaching enemy, including some of the C'Tan powers, but also some of the different gear they can take. But they also have some different potential counter-assault units, which mainly come out of the Elites section (besides the new Walker, the C'Tan and the flayed ones in Elites there are 3 OTHER brand new units in there as well, for a grand total of 6 Elites choices). The Flayed ones are, being consistent, cheaper than they were and now have 3 Attacks base (but their save is now 4+ as with standard Warriors). One of the other new Elite units is also CC oriented, but is very pricey points wise (but is S5/T5/3+save). This unit can wield a Warscythe, but they are not called Pariahs (no idea if that's what Pariahs have 'turned into' or not).

Another new Elites choice is a sniper style unit that can Deep Strike into play normally or it can choose to immediately Deep Strike immediately after the opponent brings an enemy unit on from Reserves, and they have some nasty additional damage ability against one nominated unit...obviously we need more info to know how useful this will really be, but the concept of countering an opponent's Reserve deployment immediately sounds interesting at least.

The last new Elites choice is an Elite Jump Infantry unit with very close range shooting and some decent CC ability (and are also S5/T5/3+save).

Sounds like GW nerfing the old stuff and 'making' us buy new stuff.

22) Fast Attack has 4 choices...Wraiths, Tomb Blades (jetbikes), Scarabs & Destroyers.

Cool

Wow, this sounds like hot stuff. A player in our gaming group has bought a few old necron models off me and it looks like he has a lot of cool new toys to play with. Looking forward to hearing more.

Im going to guess, he only problem with all these new units, is the new units will be hardasses, and the units that all necron players have plenty of, are going to be ehhh. But at least the codex will have variety in it. Thats cool, as now Ill have something to build on. The crypteks sound pretty sweet. Possibly being able to split from the Lord, and VOD multiple units at a time around? Im down with that idea

Thanks for the additional info Yak! Much appreciated.

I admit, it doesn't sound too optimistic to me and I get the feeling that - like the Nids - there'll be certain 'must-take' units, but I'm withholding my decision/opinion until there's more information such as all the things that affect WBB etc. I'm not too optimistic about this release actually, but I'm happy to wait and see and see what happens.
12pts base warrior's pretty good though.

Cheers Yak.

*braces for inevitable cries of their army being ruined*

Dunno about the fluff... but scarabs sound uber awesome now (loved em before, but now they sound amazing!)

Phototoxin wrote:
Is WBB still negated by power weapons or ID? As if it is then the whole thing seems sucky.

No the replacement rule for WBB is only negated if the unit is wiped out or falls back. Power Weapons, Instant Death, etc, now do not prevent it.

This update sounds great so far, it sounds like the Res orb is going to end up being a 4+ invul for the most part.

Scarabs sound Amazing, I Imagine we'll see those fielded in massive amounts.

While the 4+ kind of sucks, it's so much cheaper, I think I can deal with that, for sure, esp with a res orb.

It kind of sucks not being able to pull units out of combat anymore, but if we can take some extra punch in each unit, and with careful playing it should be too much of a problem.

Overall, I'm getting more and more excited!

Thank you so much Yak! You've really done all of us Necron Players a sevice!

A year ago, I said that next time the necrons were updated I would get them.

This thread is making me so happy.

My thoughts...

yakface wrote:

Okay continuing on here with some nice stuff:


All units in the army benefit from the new WBB rule, not just the units that were formerly classified as 'Necrons' in the current codex

That's a biggie IMHO; although they're not as tough, there could still be a whole lot more regeneration happening and to be able to do this to expensive units as well as base units is a massive boost. (see below)

Also the vehicle that can add models back into the unit is also able to use this ability on any unit.

15) Rez Orb is still in the game and boosts the new WBB rule to a 4+ instead of a 5+, but only affects the unit it is in. I have a strong suspicion that this is an upgrade that Crypteks can take (I'll confirm if I find out), so I'd imagine you can get quite a few units in the game getting the 4+ bonus save

As above, this sounds pretty damn big. Although the nerf to the individual RO is a big loss, to be able to take it on a wide variety of units (Crypteks potentially) and the bonuses that the vehicles and Tomb Spyders provide could mean that you have Necron units reappearing all over the place, which IMHO would more than compensate for the 4+/5+ saves.

16) Veil of Darkness is now definitely something Crypteks can take (so you can have a bunch of 'em in the army), but it no longer allows a unit to be pulled out of combat (and neither does the Monolith), except in the case of the Veil carried by one of the named Lords.

So improved manoeuvrability but still vulnerable to CC sounds about right and fairly balanced in a vacuum.

17) In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons

Whuh?

18) Some of those six new vehicles include flyers (not sure how many), which can move at cruising speed and fire all their weapons.

Sounds pretty potent and adds further weight to the 'Wartorn Skies' rumour and fits with the current movement in recent Codices. Could also add some quite potent firepower and speed which is much needed.

19) Besides a few units that are Fearless (Wraiths, Tomb Spyders and Scarabs), the army doesn't have any sort of blanket immunity to morale.

This worries me a bit as this is also one of the big problems with the GK it seems and neither can really be pictured legging it from battle. Then again, I wonder how this will work alongside WBB/regeneration and is more reasonable with the reduced cost.

20) Scarabs sound great. They are cheap, have the new WBB rule, move like beasts and have an ability that erodes enemy armor ...There are some items in the army that also have a similar ability to erode armor, including one of the C'Tan powers.

That sounds like a seriously deadly way to improve the Necrons anti-armour as well as encouraging cohesion and coordinated play rather than point and click. Sounds good to me.
With Scarabs and Warriors being cheaper I can really imagine a horde of metal skinned dudes advancing, as the fluff typically suggests; this would also help GW sell more models...

21) Overall, CC is definitely still the weak point of the army, but it looks like they've got a lot of different places they can take special rules to slow down or screw with approaching enemy, including some of the C'Tan powers, but also some of the different gear they can take

That sounds very interesting. I wonder if these are available on Crypteks who are looking like becoming the heart and soul of the force.

Lot of potential here for the army to go either way IMHO; obviously people are going to focus on the negative, but once we get more information this could be a really powerful and durable force. Or not...


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yakface wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:
Is WBB still negated by power weapons or ID? As if it is then the whole thing seems sucky.

No the replacement rule for WBB is only negated if the unit is wiped out or falls back. Power Weapons, Instant Death, etc, now do not prevent it.

Wowza. That's a pretty damn big boost IMHO. Nice.

the 4+/5+ give them the same save against AP5-6 as Marines. 1/2 as good of a save vs. AP4 in the open. Same vs. AP4 if in cover. And better by 1/3 against AP1-3 in the open and in cover. Sounds resilient enough to me honestly.

Regarding the rest of the rumors this is the kind of thing that would finally end me not collecting Necrons. Largest turn off (i love the models) right now is the lack of character and variety in the army. Looks like this is gonna get fixed! And I'm always down to add another Xenos army

Big fan of Crons not being an MEQ army. Not sure if I like the sound of the back story on the C'tan changing. The C'tan being killed off by the Necron's sounds about as weird as the Eldar rising up and trying to kill off Khaine. Unless if this has to do with the Necrons regaining some of their lost personality and realizing both that the C'tan are greatly weakened from their past wars among themselves, and want to get revenge on them for turning their entire race into mindless automatons. If this is the case, then Kudos to GW for advancing the story of a race. Either way it sounds a bit far fetched, but I'll buy it either way.

Any eta on the release date?

Chamleoneyes wrote:Big fan of Crons not being an MEQ army. Not sure if I like the sound of the back story on the C'tan changing. The C'tan being killed off by the Necron's sounds about as weird as the Eldar rising up and trying to kill off Khaine. Unless if this has to do with the Necrons regaining some of their lost personality and realizing both that the C'tan are greatly weakened from their past wars among themselves, and want to get revenge on them for turning their entire race into mindless automatons. If this is the case, then Kudos to GW for advancing the story of a race. Either way it sounds a bit far fetched, but I'll buy it either way.

At one point the Eldar did try to kill Khaine long ago (eldarnesh I think the guys name that tried to) but I am just teasing, this new fluff intrigues me and confuses me but I supose we have to understand that its a snippet and I shall wait till I can put it into context. Not being a MEQ army is amazing in many ways fully acceptable with that points change. I am generally pleased by the sounds of these changes they sound cool! Thanks Yak I hope you have more to share in the future.

I may have to get a Necron army started.

yakface wrote:

Okay continuing on here with some nice stuff:


stuff......

There is some good, bad, and downright ugly things in there...just have to see how everything plays out.

Hopefully my Necrons will still be usable until I can reformat the army to include some of these new units.

Yak, where do we place this rumour that was posted a few months ago.

New fast attack unit
Look kinda like flayed ones
They have an 18” charge with their special ability
Think jump infantry with special rules
5 per box

Is this the Elite Jump infantry or the FA jetbikes?

Quite a while back it was said WBB could only be negated by Ap1, ap2 and S9+, is there nothing that can negate it now unless the unit is destroyed or falling back?

Warriors being cheaper sounds amazing to me, even with a slight armor tweak, taking about a whole squad more for the same cost as 2 now makes me giddy. Immortals losing t5 makes me a little sad as that was their iconic thing but not having to fear instant death now? Big plus!

C'tan being killed off? Well I was expecting something Wardy to happen and actually...I enjoy that idea. Deicide is a great story maker.

So my dudes are T4 4+ Sv and transports all 'round. So I'm playing a mech vet army again?

yakface wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:
Is WBB still negated by power weapons or ID? As if it is then the whole thing seems sucky.

No the replacement rule for WBB is only negated if the unit is wiped out or falls back. Power Weapons, Instant Death, etc, now do not prevent it.

Ok, this and the option of unit by unit rez orbs have restored my faith in the possibilities of this new codex.

Admittedly the rez orbs will most likely be expensive, i'm also guessing the Cryteks (assuming they are the ones that carry them) will be on foot, thus making the basic and now cheap warriors more survivable and still valuable.


Just waiting on info on the nitty-gritty. Weapon stats etc. Are flayers now assault instead of rapid fire? Do Wraiths have power wapons or are they at least an option.



But at least now i'm not dreading this codex coming out. Looks like i need to hit ebay for more scarabs though!

Thanks Yak!

OH GODS! GW you sneaky monkeys! Warrior boxes have 3 scarabs. Warriors got cheaper, you want to buy more. Scarabs got crazy awesome, you want to buy warrior boxes to get them. Unload all the old Warrior boxes before the new ones ship in the 2nd wave with the supposed color rods. Rinse repeat.

Sarge wrote:So my dudes are T4 4+ Sv and transports all 'round. So I'm playing a mech vet army again?

What, your Mech Vets are all T4, have WBB, Gauss Weapons, disintegrating armour? Can they teleport and actually possess some counter-assault too?

I am TOTALLY gonna go load up on Battle Forces this weekend. Warriors sound a bit better than Immortals given their numbers now.

Just Dave wrote:

Sarge wrote:So my dudes are T4 4+ Sv and transports all 'round. So I'm playing a mech vet army again?

What, your Mech Vets are all T4, have WBB, Gauss Weapons, disintegrating armour? Can they teleport and actually possess some counter-assault too?

Indeed I like how of all the information offered here they pick a few non specific parts and ignore all the flavour! tut tut

Hulksmash wrote:the 4+ [on top of 5++] gives them the same save against AP5-6 as Marines. 1/2 as good of a save vs. AP4 in the open. Same vs. AP4 if in cover. And better by 1/3 against AP1-3 in the open and in cover. Sounds resilient enough to me honestly.

[Small edit] My thoughts exactly...you could pretty much look at them as deamons that have guns, are more resiliant against shooting, are cheaper...and can ride around in metal boxes. The only question remaining is can they load up on special weapons?


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Phototoxin wrote:Sounds like GW nerfing the old stuff and 'making' us buy new stuff.

Certainly doesn't sound like that is the case for scarabs. They were already the best swarm unit in the game...now they look even more powerful.

A lot to process here. I'm not sure I'm thrilled with the new hordey direction of things but that could just be my perceptions.

I hope the first wave of models consists of mostly new stuff so we are not in a position where we have to wait to field all the cool new units in the codex.

I'm anxiously crossing my fingers for in incoming announcement somewhere around May 15th if they are going to be an August release.

The other concern that has already been brought up is the amount of counters it sound like a necron player will need to keep track of.

The rumored "marker" that the new MC will be able to throw and the scarab armor erosion can be painful to manage. I can't quite come up with a model that would allow you to easily keep track of the reduced armor value 4 tanks at a time.

Thanks for the updates Yakface

Just Dave wrote:

Sarge wrote:So my dudes are T4 4+ Sv and transports all 'round. So I'm playing a mech vet army again?

What, your Mech Vets are all T4, have WBB, Gauss Weapons, disintegrating armour? Can they teleport and actually possess some counter-assault too?

You forgott skimmers . Though it is a bit to early to tell whether they can pull off a 5th ed. mech list yet as we don't know what the special weapon options are for the transports or embarked infantry.

Hark fellow necron players! To Ebay!!!!

Chamleoneyes wrote:I wonder, if this "C'tan as elites" rumor is true, i wonder if the elite slot would be generic C'tan, and then there would be special character C'tan's like Nightbringer or Deciver. Or would Nightbringer and Deciver be totally dropped from the book. Much like how back in the day the only death company dread for BA was Moriar the chosen, but he is gone now and replaced with generic Death Co Dread.

My assumption is that it would be more like how I've heard the Assassins are handled in C:GK. 'Ctan' is an 0-1 option in elites, and when selected you choose to take one of the C'Tan options for Nightbringer, Deceiver, etc.

@Yakface: Can you also get some solid rumours about Necron miniatures?