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An interesting idea for a Necron Transport would be to have a fluff reason for an 'undersized' transport. I.E. it's a 'transport' that stores the transported Necrons in some sort of teleport buffer matrix... So a relatively tiny but tough vehicle can float over to objectives and start warping in squads of Necrons.

So it's a Wraith Dart?

...I'm sold.

I have to say, I love the sound of the new scarabs

Anyone think the new Necron Jetbike unit coudl be some sort of homage to these old boys?

TBH these all sound like major improvements.

i get the feeling the tomb blade jetbikes will somehow be reaver jetbike rip offs.

Warriors going from a 3+ save to a 4+ save isnt that bad honestly. Considering the cost reduction they are getting and the new WBB thats a large buff. Most of the fire necrons took was either ignoring WBB by being ap 1-2 or double strength, which the new WBB reportedly ignores and they still get their save, albiet at 5+ instead of 4+.

Considering you are paying 33% less per model (from 18 to 12) they are also arguably tougher against small arms fire with the 4+ save over the 3+ save pointwise. You are going to fail on average 16% more wounds but considering you spent 33% less points if you look at the unit as a pool of points you are actually losing less points than if they were 18pts and 3+ save against small arms.

Overall the rumors make the necron army sound very strong. With the rumored loss of army wide phaseout gone and not being squad based in a way this will make 3 monolith builds stronger as it takes out the weakness of being able to make the monolithes disappear by killing necron units, of course in objective based games you can't claim anything still if you just have monoliths left but....you will probably see more 3 monolith armies :(

I predict this codex will suffer from what the nid codex does to some extent. There will be a lot of really good things in elites and fast attack but in some way they will be very specialized. Many people will build armies based around repeats of elite and fast attack slots then have min troops, just because the elites and fast attacks will be that good. This will probably make the army seem weak because it will be meant to be played as a semi hordish robot undead army and people will buy them as elite small armies.

yakface wrote:17) In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power.

I'm okay with the second half, but I'm pissed beyond words at that first part. If they kill off the C'tan whats happens to nearly all Necron fluff? The servitude to ensalver gods? The beasts that are the C'tan, just 'die'? That's bs. Absolute bs. I hope that isn't the route Necrons are going to take.

The other changes here I can live with, disappointed with some of it, but it's bearable. The C'tan dying is absurd. First Pariahs, now the C'tan. What exactly is this Ward cretin hoping to do here? *NERD RAGE*

EDIT: Pardon thy 'language'.

So what I'm wondering is how is Ward going to explain the Outsider and Void Dragon 'deaths' if one is floating away in a Dyson sphere and the other is locked on Mars.

Wait..Void Dragon dying, Mars loses tech. 40k story advancement!?!?!?!?!

Kurgash wrote:So what I'm wondering is how is Ward going to explain the Outsider and Void Dragon 'deaths' if one is floating away in a Dyson sphere and the other is locked on Mars.

Wait..Void Dragon dying, Mars loses tech. 40k story advancement!?!?!?!?!

Perhaps the tech on Mars is actually made by Jokaero, which is why GK can take them?

Again I shall stress that its merely a snippet of what the fluff and so we don't really know the true context, we have been given chunks of the army list and so can start to form some kind of idea of that but fluff wise we have next to no information so I wouldn't jump the gun yet!

Ward killing off gods? Illogical? No!!!

samrtk wrote:

yakface wrote:17) In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power.

I'm okay with the second half, but I'm pissed beyond words at that first part. If they kill off the C'tan whats happens to nearly all Necron fluff? The servitude to ensalver gods? The beasts that are the C'tan, just 'die'? That's bs. Absolute bs. I hope that isn't the route Necrons are going to take.

The other changes here I can live with, disappointed with some of it, but it's bearable. The C'tan dying is absurd. First Pariahs, now the C'tan. What exactly is this Ward cretin hoping to do here? *NERD RAGE*

I read it as something similar what happened to Khaine: formerly powerful being shattered to multitude of smaller fragments.

Personally I always thought that C'Tan on the battlefield was pretty stupid. They are supposed to be nearly godlike beings, why would they bother going to fight with some Guardsmen?

I would have much preferred a 700 point Forgeworld model for Apocalypse rather than a weakened "shard" in the Codex. Could have been stupidly awesome, but alack and alas, if these rumours are true.

If these rumors pan out, I'm deffinately selling off my necrons, SO not the direction I wanted the army to go in. Immortals changes are especially disheartening (they should get MORE badass and expensive, not chumpified!) and the changes in fluff sound just dreadful. I'll wait for the full codex before doing anything of course, rumors are rumors after all, but holy cow, GW is just absolutely destroying their current incarnation.

Just Dave wrote:

Sarge wrote:So my dudes are T4 4+ Sv and transports all 'round. So I'm playing a mech vet army again?

What, your Mech Vets are all T4, have WBB, Gauss Weapons, disintegrating armour? Can they teleport and actually possess some counter-assault too?

In short, no. Obviuosly. But from what I've read here they are certainly mored based on transportation by armored units than by teleporting, hence my comment.

Scarey Nerd wrote:I would have much preferred a 700 point Forgeworld model for Apocalypse rather than a weakened "shard" in the Codex. Could have been stupidly awesome, but alack and alas, if these rumours are true.

And who's to say there won't be a 700 point Forge World C'Tan model for Apocalypse?

Just because there's a 'weakened shard' in the Codex doesn't mean there can't be something bigger.

Look at the Bloodthirster in the generic Daemon Codex versus An'ggrath the Unbound from IA: Apocalypse.

I personally like the idea of a 'shard' being in the Codex. C'Tan by themselves being on the battlefield, in their full strength, just never really made much sense to me. It would be like if the Avatar of Khaine in the Eldar Codex were his full might manifested.

Kanluwen wrote:

Scarey Nerd wrote:I would have much preferred a 700 point Forgeworld model for Apocalypse rather than a weakened "shard" in the Codex. Could have been stupidly awesome, but alack and alas, if these rumours are true.

And who's to say there won't be a 700 point Forge World C'Tan model for Apocalypse?

Just because there's a 'weakened shard' in the Codex doesn't mean there can't be something bigger.

Look at the Bloodthirster in the generic Daemon Codex versus An'ggrath the Unbound from IA: Apocalypse.

I personally like the idea of a 'shard' being in the Codex. C'Tan by themselves being on the battlefield, in their full strength, just never really made much sense to me. It would be like if the Avatar of Khaine in the Eldar Codex were his full might manifested.

That would be fine...but the Necrons "killing off" the C'tan kind of negates an actual C'tan appearing in Apoc, although you are right in that there is no reason stopping them from creating a greater deamon level "shard". I just think it's rediculous on the surface for the Necrons to be killing off the C'tan. I expected the C'tan to go away from the dex in their current form, but I expected more of an abandonment scenario. Again though, the devil is in the details, so who knows. Maybe Ward pulled it off with out it being too far fetched...



...no, really...




...I'm serious.

I have to say that i dislike most of this.

Dont meen to be a naysayer but it seems like we are now heading for space marines in robot costumes.

i mean just el like they just took all the feeling of my necron army and ripped it out and replaced it with stuff that mite be named other and look other but will work as all other marine armies does.


seriously sad to see it possibly play out this way.

regards
Ogard

@Osgard

Seriously? They've become far less MEQ like based on the newest batch of rumors from Yak. But hey, don't let me get in the way of the whine train

Hulksmash wrote:@Osgard

Seriously? They've become far less MEQ like based on the newest batch of rumors from Yak. But hey, don't let me get in the way of the whine train

yup, now they might have something different to bring to the table.

I look forward (very excited btw) to this new codex.

Sarge wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Sarge wrote:So my dudes are T4 4+ Sv and transports all 'round. So I'm playing a mech vet army again?

What, your Mech Vets are all T4, have WBB, Gauss Weapons, disintegrating armour? Can they teleport and actually possess some counter-assault too?

In short, no. Obviuosly. But from what I've read here they are certainly mored based on transportation by armored units than by teleporting, hence my comment.

But a 4+ and potential (but no-where near as dedicated) transports mean that you're playing mech vet?! That's 2 similarities. That's it.

Ogard wrote:I have to say that i dislike most of this.

Dont meen to be a naysayer but it seems like we are now heading for space marines in robot costumes.

i mean just el like they just took all the feeling of my necron army and ripped it out and replaced it with stuff that mite be named other and look other but will work as all other marine armies does.


seriously sad to see it possibly play out this way.

regards
Ogard

They're getting less MeQ if anything. To me at least it looks like they're creating a whole new playstyle for Necrons, with units being recycled and coming back to life as well as being able to teleport/ actually move in safety and have heavy hitters dotted within the army. It sounds like their own playable IMHO and the 4+ is a symbol of this...

Mar wrote:Again I shall stress that its merely a snippet of what the fluff and so we don't really know the true context, we have been given chunks of the army list and so can start to form some kind of idea of that but fluff wise we have next to no information so I wouldn't jump the gun yet!

Exactly. I'm liking Mar judging by what has been said in this thread.

Pretty happy about the new rumors, yes I am sad my Immortals are not quite as good per model, but I am also glad that we are not marines! (well i guess immortals basically are...)

Lowering cost and giving some good CC support will go a long way to making them more playable.

Not being able to pull out of CC makes me sad, but it is just one tactic that will have to change.

Come to think of it, from the sounds of this book...

It might not actually be a bad Blood Pact 'counts as' basis!

blaktoof wrote:TBH these all sound like major improvements.

i get the feeling the tomb blade jetbikes will somehow be reaver jetbike rip offs.

Warriors going from a 3+ save to a 4+ save isnt that bad honestly. Considering the cost reduction they are getting and the new WBB thats a large buff. Most of the fire necrons took was either ignoring WBB by being ap 1-2 or double strength, which the new WBB reportedly ignores and they still get their save, albiet at 5+ instead of 4+.

Considering you are paying 33% less per model (from 18 to 12) they are also arguably tougher against small arms fire with the 4+ save over the 3+ save pointwise. You are going to fail on average 16% more wounds but considering you spent 33% less points if you look at the unit as a pool of points you are actually losing less points than if they were 18pts and 3+ save against small arms.

Overall the rumors make the necron army sound very strong. With the rumored loss of army wide phaseout gone and not being squad based in a way this will make 3 monolith builds stronger as it takes out the weakness of being able to make the monolithes disappear by killing necron units, of course in objective based games you can't claim anything still if you just have monoliths left but....you will probably see more 3 monolith armies :(

I predict this codex will suffer from what the nid codex does to some extent. There will be a lot of really good things in elites and fast attack but in some way they will be very specialized. Many people will build armies based around repeats of elite and fast attack slots then have min troops, just because the elites and fast attacks will be that good. This will probably make the army seem weak because it will be meant to be played as a semi hordish robot undead army and people will buy them as elite small armies.

AP 1-2 didn't negate WBB.

yakface wrote: One of the other new Elite units is also CC oriented, but is very pricey points wise (but is S5/T5/3+save). This unit can wield a Warscythe, but they are not called Pariahs (no idea if that's what Pariahs have 'turned into' or not).

Well clearly Warscythe's are still in, I'm wondering if they'll have the same effect...

I doubt it (judging by the C'tan phase knife), but I really do hope so, even as a non-Necron player.

necrons, a 4+ save?? Man, they better make that a heck of a codex or I will travel to Nottingham personally and kill the guy who wrote it XD I only hope that Necrons, will still be Necrons but pls c'tan, don't let them have a 4+ save -.- that's sooo not necron!

Just Dave wrote:

yakface wrote: One of the other new Elite units is also CC oriented, but is very pricey points wise (but is S5/T5/3+save). This unit can wield a Warscythe, but they are not called Pariahs (no idea if that's what Pariahs have 'turned into' or not).

Well clearly Warscythe's are still in, I'm wondering if they'll have the same effect...

I doubt it (judging by the C'tan phase knife), but I really do hope so, even as a non-Necron player.

Honestly, as long as it at least counts as a power weapon, I'll be happy. That's something else that the necron army has severely lacked.

And I don't count tomb spyders because seriously, WS2 sucks and is highly unreliable. the tomb stalker is at least a step in the right direction.

RutgerMan wrote:necrons, a 4+ save?? Man, they better make that a heck of a codex or I will travel to Nottingham personally and kill the guy who wrote it XD I only hope that Necrons, will still be Necrons but pls c'tan, don't let them have a 4+ save -.- that's sooo not necron!

Let the sky keep falling!

A great many vocal Necron players for a long time have demanded they "stop being lumped in with Marines just because we have a 3+ save".

You don't anymore. You're now equivalent to the Tau or Marine Scouts with their 4+ save or Stormtroopers from the Guard Codex. It's the "Carapace" level of save. Not really anything to be upset about when that's your basic save for your Troops choices which are supposed to be receiving points drops and various upgrades to them alone, not to mention the army being overhauled.

Immortals are supposed to be retaining the 3+ save to represent their role as 'elite' troops.

I'm hoping Warscythes remain the way they are, I think it really adds that extra punch we need.

I'm curious if the Quantum shielding is going to be something like this:

Vehicle starts with AV 12, Open topped Quantum shielding adds the +2 armor, and the effects from living metal until it's first Pen/Glance, at that point it reverts to just a plain Av 12 Open topped.

I think that would be pretty balanced in a sense, and would really add some nice durability to the Vehicles, without being overly strong.

Well, they are still close to MEQ;

AP 5/6
Necrons: 33% die
Marines: 33% die

AP 4
Necrons: 66% die
Marines: 33% die

AP 3
Necrons: 66% die
Marines: 100% die

AP 2
Necrons: 66% die
Marines: 100% die

AP 1
Necrons: 66% die
Marines: 100% die


So Heavy Bolters/PsyCannons/Heavy Flamers are going to hurt them pretty bad. Some conclusions;

With cover saves added, Necrons are consistently more durable than Vanilla Marines.
Without cover saves, they are only less survivable at the AP 4 level.
In hand to hand, Necrons are consistently more durable than Vanilla Marines.



So....I don't think they will be 'easy' to drop.

In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power.

Wait, what?

I hope this is in regards to the other C'Tan that were killed way in the past (absorbed mostly by the Nightbringer in the previous fluff IIRC) and not the 4 we know to still exist. Or something a bit more dramatic and cool then simply the Necrons killed them (something the Old ones themselves failed to do...)