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I really like what Defiance is doing too. Kind of a breath of fresh air from what I'm used to. They'd definitely make great models for a couple different systems. I check in on this thread from time to time. I'm eagerly waiting to pick up a squad of this or that to paint up and display.

It is also very cool that we have someone from the company making regular feedback and that we get to see WIPs and factory shots of moulds and stuff.

FINALLY!!

The mold is almost done. These are the cavities and all they need now is to cut the runners for the plastics and they can start churning this things out. There should be a test cast tomorrow.

http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/mold-cavities-all-finished


About time.

In case you're wondering, this will be a modular mold; for future sets, they can take pieces of the mold and transfer them to others. For instance, the USMC heavy weapon set with need a couple of gun arms so, instead of cutting a new cavity in a mold, they can simple take a piece from this one and slot it in. It should lower costs a bit and make for faster set production.


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MightyGodzilla wrote:
It is also very cool that we have someone from the company making regular feedback and that we get to see WIPs and factory shots of moulds and stuff.

If you're talking about me, I'm just a playtester. I'm not getting paid for this (though there was some talk a while back about free soldiers. I'm gonna have to cash that in for the Bugs ).

I really like what Defiance is doing, taking people's money and missing stated deadlines for production. /sarcasm

Really, I'm glad I didn't pre-order because I'd be royally POd.

The customer always runs a risk when they pre-order. Production delays can and do happen. They don't look good on the company, but it sounds like it's one of their subs who're at fault (I hope they have penalties worked into the contract with them).

Good on them to have someone posting updates so we can see that our money isn't being well spent on hookers and booze. Instead it's being frivolously spent on things like molds.

the problem is that the subs were "learning as they go" (taken from the warseer discussion) which leads me to belive that with preorders already out, DFG chose an inexperienced mold making team to do their initial release.

The new supposed release date is March 5th, due to an essential component not being in stock from their toolmaker's supplier.

And apparently they knew a week ago and forgot to mention it.

Whitey Blackman wrote:
Good on them to have someone posting updates so we can see that our money isn't being well spent on hookers and booze. Instead it's being frivolously spent on things like molds.

How dare they buy molds instead of hookers and booze!

That said, it's good to hear things are getting on track. Sounds like they're choosing to invest in a relatively new production company, which could be spun later as a benefit to them since they'd have close ties and be able to work things a bit differently than other companies out there which are either casting in-house(which is expensive as all get out) or having to wait in line for an established, well-known production company.

They better get a better website person though
The website webstore claims the minis are already out and in stock

http://defiancegames.com/index.php/shop#ecwid:category=1831024&mode=product&product=7831674

I agree that the delays are mounting and it is rather annoying. I can forgive them as they are a new company and are dealing with other newer companies from the sound of it. So all is good as long as they keep people posted and the delay story doesnt get repeated enough to just sound like things are not as advertised. Once that happens then the I will look elsewhere for my toys.

kenshin620 wrote:They better get a better website person though
The website webstore claims the minis are already out and in stock

http://defiancegames.com/index.php/shop#ecwid:category=1831024&mode=product&product=7831674

Strange. It shows up as "in stock" for me.

Shows as in stock for me as well, but I'm pretty disinclined to order anything since their website surely doesn't show any finished frames. But who knows at this point.

I'm still kind of interested, but the delays have tempered my interest somewhat. I wouldn't have a problem with the delays if they would have been a little more up-front about the fact their release date was tenuous, and not set in stone. I think people don't might waiting if they know beforehand they will be doing so.

lord marcus wrote:the problem is that the subs were "learning as they go" (taken from the warseer discussion) which leads me to belive that with preorders already out, DFG chose an inexperienced mold making team to do their initial release.

Yeah, it was getting a little heated over there on WS. I won't buy anything from DFG ( and I really like the look of the USMC hard suits and German Heer.) until I see other stores with them in stock.

I just hope that this doesn't turn into WGF re-dux =o[

Ouze wrote:Shows as in stock for me as well, but I'm pretty disinclined to order anything since their website surely doesn't show any finished frames. But who knows at this point.

I'm still kind of interested, but the delays have tempered my interest somewhat. I wouldn't have a problem with the delays if they would have been a little more up-front about the fact their release date was tenuous, and not set in stone. I think people don't might waiting if they know beforehand they will be doing so.

The problem is that, well, the release date WAS set in stone. The toolmaker guaranteed that the molds would be ready by Christmas, so a release date of January 16th was set.

I think, though, the real lesson here is to hold off on preorders until you actually have plastic in hand . . .


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lord marcus wrote:the problem is that the subs were "learning as they go" (taken from the warseer discussion) which leads me to belive that with preorders already out, DFG chose an inexperienced mold making team to do their initial release.

Actually, no. Defiance has been working with this toolmaker for several months. The preorder was set because they were assured that the mold would be ready. It wasn't a case of "get preorders to finance the mold, then find somebody to cut it." The mold has, believe it or not, already been paid for and has been in the works for several months at various stages (renders, sorting out software incompatibilities, figuring out how to cut it with equipment on hand, etc).




Edit: as a side note, this is the first forum I've seen that automatically appends stuff to a previous post and I really, REALLY like it!

Xeno wrote:

The problem is that, well, the release date WAS set in stone. The toolmaker guaranteed that the molds would be ready by Christmas, so a release date of January 16th was set.

I think, though, the real lesson here is to hold off on preorders until you actually have plastic in hand . . .

I lurk on here and am eagerly anticipating the Germans from this company. When I saw Xeno's post I couldn't resist:

Contracts Law- "time is of the essence clause"

A time is of the essence clause is inserted into a valid bilateral contract to ensure performance by a certain date. Failure of one party to perform by the date stipulated in the contract will entitle the non-breaching party to liquidated damages up to and including the full price of the completed contract. Or, a damages amount foreseeable to both and expressly noted at formation.

Here, it appears DFG made a bilateral contract (an agreement between it and the caster) to have the models ready by January 16th. Failure of this condition entitles DFG to the full cost of what the contract would have been if completed by the date specified. In other words, all the delayed pre-orders which are being complained of above, if they were to result in loss of business for DFG, would be recoverable. This is only if DFG wants to pursue some kind of legal injunction to compel the casting guys to move faster. My guess is since they are a new company they don't want to roil the waters too much so they will hold off.

Of course, this means everyone who placed pre-orders will have to wait....

I plan to hold off until the Heer; if the kit is half as awesome as I think it will be I'll invest in an army of them.

3D print of the Bug parts, specifically the lower and upper body, arms and legs, and heads. I have no idea what the oval-thing is, but I'm going to speculate it's a Bug Egg. My unfounded assumption is that each sprue will have two bugs plus two of each arm, leg, and head.

The mold for these should be ready in a week or two, according to Tony, but no guarantees. This particular mold will be a plastic-resin spin cast mold, so none of the problems with the previous mold as far as cost or serious delays (hopefully). Defiance has been experimenting with a couple of plastic mixtures which have been bearing fruit, so they'll be taking a different tack. Ideally, this'll mean cheap molds and faster turnaround times on sets. They'll be able to flesh out ranges much, much faster since they won't have to wait for tooling and, ideally, might even be able to do casting in house.

Also, that's a German rifle on there. I'm not sure if the Germans will be spin-cast as well. They are still tweaking the Germans and I'll see if I can get them to include a loose rifle on the sprue (I'm a fan of them myself -- very useful for conversions and scenery). I can't make any guarantees, though.

Looks good so far but they need to invest in a tub of devlan mud so you can actually see the details

A bit of an update

Still no definite dates

The Marines continue to move along in tooling - we received a message from the toolmaker that he was cutting runners (i.e. the place where the plastic flows to get to the parts) and the ejector pin holes (the bits that push the injected frame off the mold) - so far so good.

In the meantime, as we mentioned we have been looking at additional manufacturing methods to get the plastic flowing FASTER. The Bug parts went into this tooling process late last week and we MAY actually see some test shots in the next few days. If that's the case, and all goes well, I'll be sure to post them ASAP.

Tim Barry - sculptor extraordinaire - has been hard at work making some revisions to the Germans to take advantage of the new plastic production process. We're adding some details, trying to get closer to the concept artwork, and adding some parts (we have more mold room to take advantage of - so we are adding some head options, some alternate arms, and adding in a shortened carbine version of the venerable G-54 assault rifle!) Once he has gotten to a point he is happywith them, I'll post up some renders for everyone to check out!

The Germans will follow immediately behind the Bugs and Marines - we'll then start previewing the next sets.

That's it for this short Tuesday update - keep an eye out here and on Facebook for more images and news later this week!

I need both of those German guns as separate items. They are too cool to pass up as weapons for my other guys. I hope they give us the option to buy them separately.

I agree 100% that they need to have some of those guns alone on a sprue. They are awesome.

Unfortunately, there's no chance at all of a separate gun sprue. It's a matter of simple economics: it costs somewhere in the neighborhood of several thousand dollars to make a plastic mold. It's cheaper to do a resin mold, but something like that is probably a ways off. I'm going to keep harping at Tony et al about including a separate rifle on the sprue, though. This might or might not be more reasonable: Tony mentioned in the news post that the German sprue will probably be a little larger than the Marine sprue, meaning more room for options and accessories.

Another option, though, is separate rifles for the Vralk set (which is currently in the very early concept stages) as the plan is the have options for them to be armed with US and German weapons along with traditional medieval-tech weapons.

Maybe once they get their production hiccups out of the way and really start producing stuff they could do some 3D prints/resin for gun sprues or something like that.. If there's a demand I bet they'd find a way for me personally I'm waiting to see the all ze germans. Think I like those mockups better than the USMC stuff.

3D prints is, I think, a good option. I'd actually like to see Defiance produce an accessory set for each force -- loose weapons, pouches, backpacks, etc. I know I've bought plenty of Cadian bits specifically for conversions and to bulk up my WF Shock Troops. In my opinion, a soldier NOT laden down with massive quantities of gear looks downright unnatural.

I plan to add Defiance Games parts to my webshop once they are eventually released for those who just want certain parts. Those guns do look pretty awesome don't they.

DFG wrote:In the meantime, as we mentioned we have been looking at additional manufacturing methods to get the plastic flowing FASTER.

They would do well to remember that wargamers care not from whom the plastic flows, only that it does.

Can't wait to get to sample their stuff!

For those interested in loose weapons, this was just posted over on the DG Facebook page:

Defiance Games wrote:A quick follow up on loose weapons - based on the responses here and through email that they're a "must have" product. Two more questions for you:
1. For something like the Germans - where you have the standard G-54, G-54 with underslung GL, G-54 carbine, and the SSW - do you want a mix or want all of the same in a blister?
2. Is 10 a good # for a blister?
Thanks again!

Apparently, the process they are going to use for sets moving forward makes it cost-effective to produce small sets like this. The potential price point is 10 for $5, with probably a mix of weapon variations.

Considering they're going on 2 months behind schedule to produce ANYTHING, I'd hold off on dripping praise all over them and preparing to hand out your money.

I was excited until the same sort of issues this group put people through when they ran WGF started creeping up. Now I'm in a "wait and see if it actually happens" mode.

agnosto wrote:Considering they're going on 2 months behind schedule to produce ANYTHING, I'd hold off on dripping praise all over them and preparing to hand out your money.

I was excited until the same sort of issues this group put people through when they ran WGF started creeping up. Now I'm in a "wait and see if it actually happens" mode.

Unfortunately that was the fault of the guys producing the sprues, not Defiance Games themselves, as well as the new techniques for moulding allowing them to create better sprues and detail.

After all, wouldn't you rather have much better quality, and more for your money? At least Defiance Games are providing regular news on the goings on.

winnertakesall wrote:

agnosto wrote:I was excited until the same sort of issues this group put people through when they ran WGF started creeping up. Now I'm in a "wait and see if it actually happens" mode.

Unfortunately that was the fault of the guys producing the sprues, not Defiance Games themselves...

I believe that was Agnosto's point: that's what they said last time. I certainly hope that everything goes smoothly from this point, that we get the first USMC kit on Monday as promised and I finally get an all-girl kit some time in the next few months, but when someone uses the same excuse twice in a row, it's worth keeping the possibility in mind that it might not be a coincidence.