Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 jonolikespie wrote:
PP have said they are removing fear and changing tough because those two things were too random and unpredictable.

I thought PP were removing Fear to help streamline a rule people often overlooked, and changing tough because everyone &^%ing hated it.

Yeah, but people hated it because it was way to random. I've won games solely because a model made three straight 4+ tough checks. In a game that normally gives plenty of ways to adjust odds, tough nearly always just came down to dumb luck.

 jonolikespie wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

pre-measure is a go
When 40k went to premeasure there was a lot of pushback, but I've now began to find it's a good element to the game. I wonder if PP will add things like random charge ranges into the game.

I really, really hope that PP doesn't ever add random charge ranges. I think that, and random run distances, are two of the most ridiculous things about the current 40K rules. Nobody should ever fail a 3" charge because they were unfortunate enough to roll snakeeyes on the charge distance.

I don't mind random charges in principle. IMO, maneuvering needs element of risk, whether it is due to not knowing exact distance now, or not knowing exact distance you're going to get. However, 2d6 inch charge distance is bit much, it would be better if it was d6+3 or something.

PP have said they are removing fear and changing tough because those two things were too random and unpredictable. I am entirely confident random charges wont be a thing, and I am glad about that.

I would be fine with random charges if that was the result of charging a Terrifying model, for example.

New insider talking about changes to Cryx:
http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-04-28-2016

Bane Thralls have been removed from the game entirely!



Not sure how I feel about most of the Cryx changes, but they do appear to be really balancing things. New Wraith Engine/Machine Wraith combo sounds deadly!

 gunslingerpro wrote:
Bane Thralls have been removed from the game entirely!

Spoiler:

...to be replaced by Bane Warriors, which are the same, but trade Stealth for Ghostly

Not sure how I feel about most of the Cryx changes, but they do appear to be really balancing things. New Wraith Engine/Machine Wraith combo sounds deadly!

Looks mostly good. They needed it, at times it felt like Cryx was playing a different game to everyone else. "Oh, you're playing Warmachine? Too bad, I'm playing Cryx."

Only niggle for me is Scourge is still an utter spell. There (still appears) to be no downside to it. It's just on a hit, not a direct hit; so even if you scatter it still gets you. If you're just clipped by the blast, you're got too. Combined with Denny1's other abilities and spells this just was endgame for so many casters.

Scourge also costs 4 focus for a 3" aoe.

One of the developers is dropping a bunch of spoilers in the thread on their forums.

Some stuff:

*You can intentionally fail charges.
*You can no longer charge friendly models (but you can slam them).
*Speed debuffs no longer prevent charges.
*There's a reduction in the number of upkeep hate abilities and spells outside of Protectorate.
*Venethrax gets "Field Marshal: Counter Charge"

Oh, and spoilers on Revenant crew, Rengrave, and Leviathans.

More info on venethrax.

I love the 6 point arc nodes. With a free focus from that ability everyone is getting, they're like one of the best solo alternatives out there. Losing a point here or there is fine in exchange for that much of a points reduction.

What I like most of all this.

1. heads up. We know about the change and every day more infos are told.
2. This is a refined version of MKII and NOT a totally new thing. Improving your already good idea is the way to go.
3. minion cross pact finally

 malfred wrote:
Scourge also costs 4 focus for a 3" aoe.

Hence why I said it is endgame. Who cares if you've just dropped 4 (or 5 to boost) to drop the caster on their arse, as you're about to assassinate them. It's such a no brainer spell compared with the rest of her spells and feat that I thought it would be reigned in a little too.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 malfred wrote:
Scourge also costs 4 focus for a 3" aoe.

Hence why I said it is endgame. Who cares if you've just dropped 4 (or 5 to boost) to drop the caster on their arse, as you're about to assassinate them. It's such a no brainer spell compared with the rest of her spells and feat that I thought it would be reigned in a little too.

I played a ton of MK2 except for the last year or so and found Scourge to be one of the least reliable ways to set up an assassination. The game is just full of knock down proof casters and other things that grant immunity to it. I've gotten a good number of kills with it against people who just didn't have that sort of stuff in their army, but at any organized event it was very spotty. Maybe it'll be more viable with 3 (6 in mk3 terms) point arc nodes that get a free focus. The problem is that either the caster can't be knocked down or other unknockdownable models will just block the rest of the assassination.

It's an incredibly powerful spell in casual play though. But it's dealt with in even more ways than Kreos1s' feat.

 MattofWar wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 malfred wrote:
Scourge also costs 4 focus for a 3" aoe.

Hence why I said it is endgame. Who cares if you've just dropped 4 (or 5 to boost) to drop the caster on their arse, as you're about to assassinate them. It's such a no brainer spell compared with the rest of her spells and feat that I thought it would be reigned in a little too.

I played a ton of MK2 except for the last year or so and found Scourge to be one of the least reliable ways to set up an assassination. The game is just full of knock down proof casters and other things that grant immunity to it. I've gotten a good number of kills with it against people who just didn't have that sort of stuff in their army, but at any organized event it was very spotty. Maybe it'll be more viable with 3 (6 in mk3 terms) point arc nodes that get a free focus. The problem is that either the caster can't be knocked down or other unknockdownable models will just block the rest of the assassination.

It's an incredibly powerful spell in casual play though. But it's dealt with in even more ways than Kreos1s' feat.

Funny, because everyone in our meta goes against Denny (all of them) a lot. Scourge is used frequently and to great effect.

See; I love these things as you get players coming in from left and right to tell me why I'm apparently wrong (despite experiencing it on the tabletop. Neither of us is wrong. Different metas experience different things. ) and how I have no right to roll my eyes at this spell. It cuts both ways. People moan when I cast Silence of Death. I don't blame them. So, what anti KD tech is there in Khador? Well we have lash from standing in BTB with the mekanick UA and the same from marshalled pirate heavies there's also being an Iron Fang and standing near a Kovnik (but non of our casters are that). So, yeah...

Never change Warmachine community.

Don't know what to tell you about Scourge then. If people haven't figured out how to deal with Knockdown after pKreos has been the Menoth battlebox casters for 10+ years, I guess they just won't learn and Scourge will keep being super awesome against them.

 MattofWar wrote:
Don't know what to tell you about Scourge then. If people haven't figured out how to deal with Knockdown after pKreos has been the Menoth battlebox casters for 10+ years, I guess they just won't learn and Scourge will keep being super awesome against them.

I'm not saying its "overpowered lolz", I'm saying it is an incredibly useful spell and has been used to great effect in our meta; mainly also as it is one of Denny's "backup" spells so people may not know it's full effects (yes, yes, their fault for not reading cards etc.) and are caught with their pants down by it.

My eye rolling was due to it still being on a "hit" and not "directly hit". There is no real downside to this spell. She can throw it out willy nilly (3 especially with all the focus she has to play with) without caring about other things she has loads of other debilitating effects. I know what scourge does, when playing Denny I try to mitigate it as much as possible mainly by killing her arc nodes so she has to come forward if she want to use it.

Different metas experience different things. Something that works for us here might not work elsewhere due to many factors including player experience and familiarity. Talk to our local Trollkin player, and Scourge is nothing against him, Khador however, it is the bane of many a Caster's existence.

I don't disagree with any of that.

I just don't think it's as good as a whole lot of other knock down spells and while it's cool to knock someone down every now and again, I find it's far easier to use Deneghra1's focus on debuffing on her feat turn and getting the assassination regardless of whether or not the caster is knocked down.

Some casters are more vulnerable to knock down than others, but the game has had so many knock down effects for so long, that I don't really take the idea of Scourge being some super strong spell that seriously. With Power Up giving focus all over and the relative cost of a Lancer possibly going down, I think Stryker1's Earthquake spell is going to be a far better knock down threat. And then you have the few casters that just have large control area knock down feats.

Legion insider up: http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-05-02-2016

"Eyeless sight no longer penetrates forests."

Hah - yes!

Signed / Circle

And the Carnivean Chassis has become Speed 5.


The sea levels are rising due to salty legion tears right now.

 .Mikes. wrote:
"Eyeless sight no longer penetrates forests."

Hah - yes!

Signed / Circle

Ah man - that kinda sucks... my main opponent is Circle and I was specifically running the Sacral Vault and planning to include a Mist Speaker for that.

Does it at least remove the cover benefit for being in forests, even if you can't "see through them" as it were?

Doesn't mentiong that, just that it still penetrates clouds and stuff, and cannot be Blinded.

I'd guess not, but that would just be a guess.

...looks like you're going to have to come in and try and force us out

 RiTides wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:
"Eyeless sight no longer penetrates forests."

Hah - yes!

Signed / Circle

Ah man - that kinda sucks... my main opponent is Circle and I was specifically running the Sacral Vault and planning to include a Mist Speaker for that.

Does it at least remove the cover benefit for being in forests, even if you can't "see through them" as it were?

Forests give concealment not cover, Eyeless Site still ignores concealmen (It never ignored cover, though the carnivean did because sprays don't care)

Oh and as a Circle player, I usually stand behind a forest not in it, Unless I'm playig PBaldur, because who wants to walk ;p

Looks like they're getting ready of power attack head lock and weaponlock.

(Hungerford rando post on facebook)

You mean 'rid of'? Any link?

They sound nice on paper but to be honest I haven´t used them in ages. I won´t miss them.

 .Mikes. wrote:
You mean 'rid of'? Any link?

Was on facebook. Now he's posted here:

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?250283-Mk-III-Power-Attacks&p=3496829&viewfull=1#post3496829

The last time I remember seeing anybody talk about weapon locks was with the Minuteman, and that stopped when they errated weapon locks to only be possible on equal or smaller bases.

I kinda like the idea of them. But they're so situational as ot be pretty much completely overlooked, and the massive block of text in the rulebooks explaining them was imposing when I first started out.

I reckon within a month of Mkiii people won't even remember them.

Pushes got used a lot more, at least in my experience. But one of the main places they got used is probably going to change markedly (Synergy based lists) so hopefully it won't be a big loss.