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2019/05/27 17:27:41
Subject: Re:Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
When i mix harlies with craftworld i go pure firepower. 3 starweavers with 5 man fusion troupes in them, a warlord shadoeseer with jump out after vehicle moves trait, troupe master with additional movement relic, and 6 bikes with haywire cannons and zephyrglaives.
With the left over points i focus on things craftworld could do better at a cheaper price. 20 man guardian blob to deep strike in (that puts out a ton of firepower at 12"), dire avengers for cheap objective grabbing, swooping hawks for additional chaff clearing for cheap, banshees for deep stike and charge (bel-tan gives court of the young king for an additional 2" to your charge, totally worth it), and of course psycic support from farseers and warlocks. Add a small squad of dark reapers in for a bit of additional support if you can afford it, call it a day.
This is the list i've come up with, and I really couldn't fit everything I wanted! Anyways, here it is:
Eldar Battalion:
Asurmen
Farseer
3x5 dire avenger squads
3x6 swooping hawks (including the exarch with the str 5 gun and the power sword)
2 fire prisms
Harlequin Battalion:
Troupe master with power sword
Shadowseer
2x5 troops where 4 guys will have a special weapon
a 9 strong troupe where 5 have special weapons
5 skyweavers with glaives and haywire
2 star weavers
Overall the list looks fun, but kinda...meh. In my head there are like 20-30 harlies, plus 20 to 30 dire avengers, with 30 swooping hawks.
But it doesn't fit.
I'll tinker around with it it. I wanted 2 fire prisms for some ranged anti tank. The avengers and swooping hawks provide decent anti infantry, and the harlies can fight.
Obviously its not optimal, but it was a thought.
2019/05/27 20:42:29
Subject: Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
Why are you doing a 9 troupe squad? That just seems like a waste to me, you have to dedicate the shadowseer to them just to make them fast enough to keep up with the starweavers and even then they could easily get blown away by las gun / bolter fire. I find my harliquens are next to unstoppable until they get out of the starweaver.
Even if you are set on cc harlies (which can be amazing) i would still do 2x5 and 1x6 and 3 weavers (room in the other 2 are for your chrs).
2019/05/28 00:57:23
Subject: Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
Azuza001 wrote: Why are you doing a 9 troupe squad? That just seems like a waste to me, you have to dedicate the shadowseer to them just to make them fast enough to keep up with the starweavers and even then they could easily get blown away by las gun / bolter fire. I find my harliquens are next to unstoppable until they get out of the starweaver.
Even if you are set on cc harlies (which can be amazing) i would still do 2x5 and 1x6 and 3 weavers (room in the other 2 are for your chrs).
Well if playing ITC you just deploy in Magic boxes, you can also DS them for later in game to keep them protected, having 1 larger squad isnt a bad thing and works well in some game modes.
I imagine this is a foolish question but can Troupes work on foot?
I've been considering adding a small(Ynnari) Harlequin detachment to my DE army, but for reasons of fluff I really don't want them to be in a transport.
I can include a Shadowseer for the -1 to wound aura if it helps.
2019/06/02 02:07:38
Subject: Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: I imagine this is a foolish question but can Troupes work on foot?
I've been considering adding a small(Ynnari) Harlequin detachment to my DE army, but for reasons of fluff I really don't want them to be in a transport.
I can include a Shadowseer for the -1 to wound aura if it helps.
Depends on their role.
I can say 'a' foot troupe can work. Usually a larger group (10-12), buffed with a Shadowseer for negatives to hit and wound, plus Twilight Pathways. Multiple units like this do not work well due to restrictions on psychic powers. You have to be smart on how you use them and not be afraid to just hide the unit out of LOS until the right time though, even with buffs they'll get shot to hell by small arms fire. And don't load too many upgrades on them, keep them cheap-ish, too many players double the cost of single wound Harlequins by taking too many upgrades. A barebones Player is an ok value for the points (13), a 27 point Player with a Carress and Fusion may not be if the army is full of them; the 27pt Player dies just as easily as the 13pt Player, so be sure to have ablative wounds before you have to remove the expensive guys.
Also when running Mono-Quins it can 'work' to have a couple smaller units with minimal upgrades to sit in the backfield for objectives while everything else does their thing. Not exactly the best unit for the job, but if you want to be considered a Harlequin player (rather than Aeldari soup player) in the ITC, then it's all you've got.
All that said, why Ynarri? Compared to the Harlequin strats and everything, Ynarri is a pretty lame duck. I guess if it's for fluff then sure, otherwise Codex Quins win out.
Sometimes, you just gotta take something cause the model is freakin cool...
2019/06/02 19:05:54
Subject: Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
I can say 'a' foot troupe can work. Usually a larger group (10-12), buffed with a Shadowseer for negatives to hit and wound, plus Twilight Pathways. Multiple units like this do not work well due to restrictions on psychic powers.
Ah, not looking good for my idea then.
As I mentioned, I was hoping to use Ynnari, so no Twilight Pathways or other Harlequin spells, I fear.
In terms of the Troup, I was hoping to use 3 small units (rather than 1 large one) in order to fill out a Battalion.
Their role was a mix of things:
- Fluff (they'd be refluffed as daemons but that's a story for another time )
- CPs via the Battalion
- Attacking weaker enemies, tying up vehicles, maybe trying to steal an enemy objective
- Providing more teleportation options/locations for the Yncarne
Creeping Dementia wrote: And don't load too many upgrades on them, keep them cheap-ish, too many players double the cost of single wound Harlequins by taking too many upgrades. A barebones Player is an ok value for the points (13), a 27 point Player with a Carress and Fusion may not be if the army is full of them; the 27pt Player dies just as easily as the 13pt Player, so be sure to have ablative wounds before you have to remove the expensive guys.
Regarding upgrades, the idea I had was that each 5-man squad would have a single leader model who'd carry a Fusion Pistol and a Caress, whilst the rest of the squad would be left naked.
Also when running Mono-Quins it can 'work' to have a couple smaller units with minimal upgrades to sit in the backfield for objectives while everything else does their thing. Not exactly the best unit for the job, but if you want to be considered a Harlequin player (rather than Aeldari soup player) in the ITC, then it's all you've got.
Nah, it's okay. I was only intending to use Harlequins to supplement a larger DE force.
Creeping Dementia wrote: All that said, why Ynarri? Compared to the Harlequin strats and everything, Ynarri is a pretty lame duck. I guess if it's for fluff then sure, otherwise Codex Quins win out.
Flavour and nothing else. The Ynnari powers and such especially are just much closer to the theme I was going for.
Regardless, it seems like this was a bad idea. Thanks for all your help.
2019/07/05 07:24:51
Subject: Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
The 3 upgraded squads all have starweavers, the standard squads either sit on objectives or deep strike.
I know troupes aren't the most competitive but I do love em, plus I find harlies so CP hungry I need 2 battalions.
I'm wondering if there's a more efficient way of running them though? I'm considering upgrading a 4th squad and getting another starweaver, or maybe mix them up and have a couple naked guys in each unit, for ablative wounds?
I'm not running soaring spite for drivebys btw, usually frozen stars or silent shroud. The rest of the army is the usual stuff, plus 12 skyweavers.
So how would you run this many troupes?
2019/07/05 15:55:45
Subject: Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
I run mine either only Melee weapons or only Fusion pistols, IMO making them dedicated to 1 role is better, and you dont lose as much if they die. 4/1 is a great option and it makes them less than 100pts per 5. I used to do 4//4/1 but they tend to die quicker it feels and i lose more much easier, its a 28pts difference, over 6 units thats 168pts. so now you have more points for other units as well. Given with also have Skyweavers, we dont really need that much FP for anti-tank, they are mostly for IG tanks and back up damage i feel.
With that said, i guess it depends more on if you take 6 or 12 skyweavers, i took 6 at a local tournament with only 4 FP's and i went 2-1 with a change to take 1st (i lost to bad dice rolls, the whole event even said so, i roled over 80% my dice as 1-'s he was rolling 80% as 5-6's, he rolled box cars for his 2d6 shots 4 out of 5 times, the other 2 knights rolled a 9 or 10 every turn, i lost my -2/3++ skyweavers in 1 turn due to not making a save, and i still adid very good against him)... but the point is i didnt need that many FP's. I feel FP's are a bit over rated.
Im honestly thinking about taking only 2x4 (or 2x5) FP's in stead of 3x4, b.c my TM's also has them.
I always run mine as 5x fusion pistols which is over kill but if I want it dead it has to be dead). Or I run them 5x embrace if I'm going close combat.
2019/07/08 07:17:00
Subject: Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
Yeh I know, that would be cool, it's just the points.
I need 6 troupe squads to make up the 2 battalions so I'd have to start dropping skyweavers to get the points and I'm already down to 10.
Maybe if I went with 9 skyweavers, 3x3, I might be able to squeeze in 1 squad of 10 or 12 troupes.
My meta is quite knight and tank heavy ATM so I feel 9 is the minimum I'd be comfortable with really.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On a side note, has anyone had any success with suit of hidden knives?
I have a regular opponent who runs a lot of wolfen and thunder wolves, all with storm shields and hammers, and they're a nightmare to deal with in combat.
Problem is, to pull it off you really need to cast the 2 psychic powers to get up to -3 to hit, but you have to commit before you roll for them so it's risky.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/10 07:08:29
2019/07/10 07:18:05
Subject: Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
530pts of Troupes, you can make it 28pts cheaper by doing 4 weapons per rather than 5.
I've found the extra troupes with no weapons are still very viable, use them for wrapping, objectives, stopping OW when starweavers/skyweavers cant. I also dont use my troupes as much as my Skyweavers and characters tho.
My 2x6 Skyweavers are now 6 HWC and only 3 Zephyr Glaives, making them 288pts over 306 and honestly 3 of them is enough, they are not there for melee dps anyways. I dont believe skyweavers should be in smaller units.
I was taking less troupes (1 battalion) and 2 DJ's, i like the DJ, they are fine at what they do, but +5 CP to replace them with troupes is a win for me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/10 07:18:22
I only play Soaring spite, mostly b.c i love the movement abilities of it, i dont need more attacks on my troupes as i play more of a touch and go style, hordes dont give me a problem either (like nids or Orks) i actually do better against them oddly, get a unit down to 15ish and the troupes will finish it off easily.
I always take 6 Bikes, they are IMO too good not to max them out.
I really miss of Ynnari b.c i could mix the traits for stratagems, having a Vanguard Ynnari detachment for DJ's, Yvarine, Solitaire and 1 of my unit of Skyweavers was my go to every game.
But with that gone now, i'll most likely only do Soaring Spite, like i said i only like it b.c i need the movement and still be at 100% output, i relay on the 22" movements to win my games.
Amishprn86 wrote: I really miss of Ynnari b.c i could mix the traits for stratagems, having a Vanguard Ynnari detachment for DJ's, Yvarine, Solitaire and 1 of my unit of Skyweavers was my go to every game.
But with that gone now, i'll most likely only do Soaring Spite, like i said i only like it b.c i need the movement and still be at 100% output, i relay on the 22" movements to win my games.
I agree. The sweet 3++ durability with no negative modifiers to hit is so key. In my competitive list, I typically run 2 squads of 6 bikes. 1 squad I play cagey and keep them at max range to plink at armor or screens early on and then fire and fade out of LOS or in a position that will compromise my opponent's board control if they want to get at them. The other squad is typically PB'd with the 3++ and I will often use the LFR for -2 to hit.
In addition to those two units, I will have 2 squads of 3 Talos so there's a lot of tough, hard to remove units on the board that forces difficult decisions. If you go after the bikes, the Talos typically blender the opponent and get stronger as the game goes on due to PfP. If you go after the Talos, the bikes are typically wreaking havoc all over the place capping objectives and removing big threats.
Chief Filthy Casual at GDFC
https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com
I've been doing pure harlequins lately. I've done 2 events, 5th and 4th, but i was 2-1 both events. Do to how it works having the most points i'm on top table everytime then i always get unlucky for top tables (Matchups i can win easily, but i always had bad deployment map, dont go first, etc..)
Doing a 3rd this weekend, this time tho i'm taking out the 2 DJ's, 3 Voidweavers, and 3 Starweavers (I was playing with 12 vehicles, its very fun) for 2 battalions and 2x6 bikes. Tho i play 12 vehicles and 6 characters really well (its what im used to, i won an event at the start of 8th vs Stormraven spam doing that very same thing, but it was 9 voidweavers, cant do that anymore), i wont be able to get a practice game in before, so IDK how well i will do with 2x6 skyweavers, only 4 starweavers and 4 characters vs 6.
I know quite the right place, but how do Ynarri Quins stack up against pathways? Seems like the Bikes, Troupes (CC) and Troupe Master with Hungering Blade has some potential. Especially the re-roll 1's to hit for Bikes
2019/07/25 15:34:27
Subject: Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
Ynnari quins is the same as Aeldari Quins, the other 2 main factions can do what we do but better, that doesnt mean we still cant do it and do it well.
Yes Ynnari focus on melee and bikes/characters are the best uses for Ynnari, so you for sure want a TM with Hungering Blade and some Bikes.
Some combos for characters
TM with Hungering Blade with Warden of Souls (take stratagemf or 2nd WL trait for this) +1 attack and Str while under Soulburst, giving you +4 str and +1 attack, (Str 7, 6 attacks) this is really good.
Shadowseer with Lord of Rebirth and Mirrorgave (your actual WL) This makes him -1 to be hit, -1 to be wound, 5++ and regains 1 wound, snipers wont be able to kill him most likely. Very hard to kill.
Another thing you can do is Corag Hai's Locket, you have to finish off a unit, but a TM with a Caress and WL traitWarden of Souls means you are S6 -2 re-roll wounds 6 attacks hitting on 2+, you can easily kill a 5 man unit to gain +1 attack and movement, add a FP and try to get the last wound off on a unit within 6" to try to double tap the relic.
To note: I dont like Ynnari Harlequins at all, most of the "good" stratagems we already do, we can advance + charge, we can fallback and charge or shoot and charge, we can re-roll wounds already do to the TM's aura. Ynnarid oesnt give us anything other than fight first and +1 to hit with the removal of better stratagems and powers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/25 15:39:20
Shadowseer with Lord of Rebirth and Mirrorgave (your actual WL)
This makes him -1 to be hit, -1 to be wound, 5++ and regains 1 wound, snipers wont be able to kill him most likely. Very hard to kill.
Out of interest, would you send him into melee at all, or are his defence purely as protection from Snipers and the like?
To note: I dont like Ynnari Harlequins at all, most of the "good" stratagems we already do, we can advance + charge, we can fallback and charge or shoot and charge, we can re-roll wounds already do to the TM's aura. Ynnarid oesnt give us anything other than fight first and +1 to hit with the removal of better stratagems and powers.
It really saddens me that Ynnari have 0 movement abilities, in spite of mobility supposedly being one of their core skills.
That said, the thing I dislike most about Ynnari Harlequins is the same thing I dislike about every bloody Ynnari army - the mandatory Ynnari character. If I want a Troupe Master (to make use of the Hungering Blade) and a Shadowseer (as Warlord and for support spells), then I'm limited to a Battalion or a Supreme Command Detachment. The former requires me to take 3 troop choices, none of which I actually want, and the latter locks me out of the all-important Skyweavers.
2019/07/28 11:43:45
Subject: Re:Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
Quick question (apologies if I've been a bit thick here)
I'm going to be fighting a couple of Chaos armies soon and was thinking of taking the Midnight Sorrow Nemesis of the Damned Warlord trait (6 to hit causes two hits and +1 to hit against Chaos).
Do those two powers stack? I.E - if I roll a 5 against chaos does it cause two hits due to the plus 1?
Thanks guys
2019/07/29 11:34:52
Subject: Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
I saw a comment online which said since the last FAQ we can't do a second Prismatic Blur after advancing with Twilight Pathways any more. I couldn't see this in our FAQ or the main one, have I just missed it?
Edit: TopperHarley, yes they stack, because it's not 'unmodified rolls of 6', it's just '6+', so agsinst Chaos 5s becomes 6s and score 2 hits, and 6s become 7s and also score 2 hits.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/29 11:37:25
2019/07/29 13:01:30
Subject: Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!
Twilight Pathways wrote: I saw a comment online which said since the last FAQ we can't do a second Prismatic Blur after advancing with Twilight Pathways any more. I couldn't see this in our FAQ or the main one, have I just missed it?
Edit: TopperHarley, yes they stack, because it's not 'unmodified rolls of 6', it's just '6+', so agsinst Chaos 5s becomes 6s and score 2 hits, and 6s become 7s and also score 2 hits.
Q: Are you able to Advance or Fall Back in a different phase
when moving ‘as if it were the Movement phase’ through an
ability, Relic, Stratagem etc.?
A: Unless stated otherwise, yes. Note that if you do
Advance, and the unit has already Advanced this turn,
you should roll the dice again to see how much further
the unit moves (i.e. do not use the same roll made when
the unit first Advanced this turn).
Twilight Pathways wrote: I saw a comment online which said since the last FAQ we can't do a second Prismatic Blur after advancing with Twilight Pathways any more. I couldn't see this in our FAQ or the main one, have I just missed it?
Edit: TopperHarley, yes they stack, because it's not 'unmodified rolls of 6', it's just '6+', so agsinst Chaos 5s becomes 6s and score 2 hits, and 6s become 7s and also score 2 hits.
Q: Are you able to Advance or Fall Back in a different phase
when moving ‘as if it were the Movement phase’ through an
ability, Relic, Stratagem etc.?
A: Unless stated otherwise, yes. Note that if you do
Advance, and the unit has already Advanced this turn,
you should roll the dice again to see how much further
the unit moves (i.e. do not use the same roll made when
the unit first Advanced this turn).
I believe this entry in the big FAQ disallows that as the stratagems must be used in a specific phase.
Q: When a rule allows a model or unit to take an action (move,
shoot, charge, fight or attempt to manifest a psychic power)
outside of the normal turn sequence, and that rule explicitly
mentions to make that action as if it were a different phase of the
turn structure to the current one, e.g. ‘That unit can shoot as if it
were the Shooting phase’, do rules that are normally used during
that phase (in the example this would be the Shooting phase) take
effect? Is the same true of Overwatch attacks?
A: With the exception of Stratagems, all rules (e.g.
abilities, Warlord Traits, psychic powers etc.) that would
apply in a specific phase apply to actions that are taking
place ‘as if it were that phase’. However, if a Stratagem
specifies that it must be used in a specific phase, then
it can only be used in that phase (e.g. you cannot use a
Stratagem that says ‘Use this Stratagem in the Shooting
phase’ to affect a unit that is Shooting ‘as if it were
the Shooting phase’). For the purposes of this FAQ,
Overwatch attacks are not considered to be attacks made
as if it were your Shooting phase.
Chief Filthy Casual at GDFC
https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com
Ladies and gentlemen, our tables are going to soon be flush with primaris and space marine models. Can we take this opportunity to discuss the best load outs for troupes and general tactics against them?
My personal favourite was using cegorach's rose on a solitaire. Incredible primaris blender, but never survives the next shooting phase.
Fighting against primaris, kisses or caress? The troupe master is key I think, but as a support character for the buff aura
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
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