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Ok first of all, what is the best way to fight Thunder Wolves, their hard to wound because of toughness 5 and can all have 3++ saves, and they can charge 24" so you only really get one turn to shoot them. Once their in close combat their a menace to fight, all having a base of 4 that are strength 5 rending. They always rip up my Chaos Marines in close combat and I can barely wound them. They can stand up to everything even dreadnoughts fall before them. I charge them Daemon Princes, Greater Daemons, Berzerkers and even terminators and they always come out on top, Especially when they have a Wolf Lord of a Thunder Wolf mount running with them.

And now second of all what with Grey Knights Paladins and their dam grenade, actually what about every Grey Knight and their bloody grenades. They charge in, or get charged and all start throwing grenades like theirs no tomorrow, you end up being toughness 3, initiative 1 and can't attack before the combats even started. Then there is that bloody Hammer Hand and their strength 7 I mean what the hell, they just cast it a bunch of times and bam we with wound anything on a 2+ and kill anything with an armour value.

Like what the hell how over powered can you get, how can I beat them?

3-9 venoms + 3 razorwings might have a chance.

Whit my little experience I have with them and what my friend said “They dont like str10”

I used 2 Defilers and 1 Vindicator in that match and managed to kill one or two before they charged one of the Defilers. The Defiler was a bit lucky and survived the charge making it possible for me to charge the wolfs with my second Defiler.

Grey knights on the outer hand.... have fun!

To actually kill Thunderwolves S10 pie plates are the obvious solution. They also aren't that good against walkers, sure they have Rending and probably a Thunderhammer, but Dreads and Defilers do ok against them (you probably die eventually, but the don't punch through AV12+ so fast that you won't punch a couple before you drop). Other than the T5/S10 issue the biggest weakness of Thunderwolves is that they aren't fearless. This means that you can use tactics like tank shocking them repeatedly or setting up multicharges which clip the Wolves and mash up another unit to cause them to lose combat badly and possibly break.

Otherwise keep them off your infantry by controlling their movement with vehicles (i.e Rhinos) and using Lash, and generally just shoot the hell out of them. If he is running them all with Storm Shields then that is a seriously expensive unit, you may be able to divert them and tackle the rest of his army anyway.

For the Paladins. First off make sure you are playing the grenade rules correctly, some of them only work if the Paladins charge. In order to get to S7 they would have to have at least 2 characters in the unit, so its basically going to be an entire army in a single unit making it possible to simply out maneuver it in objective games. In general though you don't want to be getting into combat with Paladins unless they are already weakened by shooting or you have a seriously durable unit or some way of delivering massed S8 attacks into the unit (the durability thing is a factor either way, you need to have a chance to swing). In some ways Paladins are easier to deal with than Thunderwolves, they are T4 rather than T5, so you can instant kill them with Meltaguns and Missiles (yes you have to get through the 2+ save, but its still 1 dead guy per failed save). They are also just standard infantry models, they only have a 12" threat range (unlike the Thunderwolves with a 24" threat range) so you can usually avoid ending up in assault fairly well, they do pack some shooting punch I guess but it can only engage a single target so its not too bad.

As with Thunderwolves the fact that they aren't Fearless can be a major weakness. Massed tank shocks is a reasonably reliable way to dealing with them, but that obviously requires a mech army. The main issue for Chaos is that they don't have psychic defense, so have no way to slowing down the combos GK's can put out.

If you can get the charge (hello Land Raider), berzerkers are striking first, hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s, 4 attacks per model, and dont care about the inevitable storm shields. A large squad can force lots of saves on what will certainly be a much smaller TWC squad.
As for Paladins, zerkers aren't the answer. Maybe run away? : )

It depends on your army. It seems you are playing CSMs (good job, love them myself). The standard combo is double lash plus pie plates. But, instead of obliterators, take vindicators. S10 AP2 will force 3++ saves with instakills. Problem is you don't have other in-game options, while MEQ players usually have some psychic hood or something to counter the lash.

Or, you can just smile politely and move on to the next table. That's the thing about playing ridiculous armies - people start avoiding you.

For CSM, your best bets for dealing with thunder cav and paladins are the following;

demon weapon of slanessh
vindicators
dual CCW dreads
obliterators
staying in transports so all they can assault are vehicles
playing reserves

I play TWC vs. Blood Angels and Eldar and they deal with them quite effectively. Both of these strategies can apply to your CSM.

Blood Angels - Tank Shock. Run a tank at them, even an empty Rhino or Razorback and hope they fail Leadership. At Ld 8 it happens quite often. They'll run away 3D6, often off the board. Alternatively the BA player will run a 3 Predator, 3 Baal Predator list and just unload heavy weapons into them. With Obliterators, Defiler and Dreadnoughts you should have enough there to kill them all or at least make them fail Morale and run.

Eldar - Volley of shots. TWC have T5 and can have a 3++, but at only 2W each they're bound to fail some armour save rolls. With CSM just do the same thing with bolters and heavy weapons.


Use TWC Ld8 and 3D6 fall back to your advantage. If you can kill one in the shooting phase and cause them to fail Morale you shouldn't have to worry about them.

My personal favourite solution to Thunderwolf Cavalry is the humble plasma gun. I don't know the Chaos codex very well, but if there's a unit somewhere in your codex that can take a few plasma guns, try it out.

creeping-deth87 wrote:My personal favourite solution to Thunderwolf Cavalry is the humble plasma gun. I don't know the Chaos codex very well, but if there's a unit somewhere in your codex that can take a few plasma guns, try it out.

Obliterators have twin linked plasma guns in addtion to every other gun under the sun, and normally plague marines carry plasma guns in CSM armies. Though chaos normally has other targets for the oblits guns.

Not much you can do about GK except shoot them from outside 24"

As for TWC however, shoot them with all the S5+ weaponry you've got. If there's anything I learned from playing IG for about a year now, simply drowning them in shots will kill them if you pour enough. Think heavy bolters and autocannons. Hell, bolters will do if you're in a pinch and you can focus fire enogh of them.

Just a thought here, I'm concerned about how your opponent is getting so many rad and psychotroke grenades as to be quite this much of a problem. Last I checked, they're available to Brother-Captains, Grand Masters, Ordo Xenos Inquisitors, and Techmarines; nobody takes Techmarines, so it shouldn't be that hard to keep away from the other guy's two HQ choices. Plus you may want to consider that he's blowing an extra thirty points on an HQ model with both...

It shouldn't be that hard to simply avoid the pumped-up Paladin unit and focus your energies on shooting to death the few regular Grey Knights the other guy can still afford after dumping 500+pts into one HQ and his band of Paladins...

Have you tried Abbadon? He's the most beat face character I've seen in the game.
Even if the thunder puppies charge him, Abbadon has between 6-10 STR 8 attacks going on I6 that ignore armor saves. Hes T5, eternal warrior and has a WS of 7.
A few weeks ago, we were talking about how various ICs stacked up. Point for point, Abbadon wrecked every other IC found.
Abbadon costs 275 points. I would not throw him against 600 points of Twolves solo and expect him to win every time. Give him some fearless support and he should deliver.

Paladins are a huge PITA in the 5th edition right now. IMHO your best bet is to stack up with 9 oblits and just pound them with las cannons every round until they are no more.

I play GK and I can tell you what I do not want to face up to, and that is any instant death weapons, they negate the two wounds, armour and the apothecary who is very expensive.

I never take all the grenade options as they are too expensive and make an army list unbalanced (unless I'm playing apocalypse). So if your oponent is using all this fancy and expensive wargear then outmanouver him, deny him the use of these wastefull points and focus all shooting on this unit to wear him down.

So think about usinig defilers, vindicators, meltas, etc and shoot him to pieces. Remember it's OK to ask for rules clarity during a game to ensure your oponent is using the granades correctly.

If you wanna kill them then use your whole army together. i.e bait them with something stupid then shoot and charge your whole army.

Chosen can have lots of plasma guns plus infiltrate so they can shoot TWC early in the contest and possibly even rapid fire. If plasma is your choice, all terminators can have combi-plasma. At only 35 points a model, that is pretty cheap.

Abaddon is a good counter also.

Have you tried Thousand Sons? 4+ invulnerable and force weapon sorcerer. Include a Chaos Lord with daemon weapon and MoS. This beefs things up nicely and is still far fewer points than the TWC.

I once played an opponent with 17 TWC (including two characters) and two GH troop choices. I fielded three blocks of 20 Thousand Sons. One unit also had two Chaos Lords. That is three "hidden" force weapons and two instant kill swords. He cried and cried and cried... The game was a boring, static combat with lots of dice to roll. He lost the war of attrition and I haven't had to face that unbalanced army of his ever again. I just make certain to bring 60 Thousand Sons models (in their handy army case) in case he shows up with that list against whatever list I had intended to run.

Anyhow, try Thousand Sons! Those are the bastards most willing to kill SW anyhow. : )