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Have tourney coming up, wondering peoples opinion against GK, I know it depends on what is run, it is an 1850 list.. last tourney someone ran a dreigo wing, so know I will have to deal with it
Someone will like likely run palidins and psyfleman dreads too...
Dreigo wing would be best to shoot or swarm with multiple boy squads, is my guess
with the palis I am guessing mech bw rushing at dreads and palis and kill them with numbers..
Any advice helpful,
thanks

As usual with Ork the solution is assault the shooty ones and shoot the assault ones. Paladins will destroy you in close combat but will die to volume of fire. Depends on you build as well.
Your main problem will actually be purifier spam.

it all really depends on the build you are facing.



Paladins:
Depending on how they are built, you might be able to face them in combat. If the unit does not have a warding stave, they will only get a 4++ save vs the PK [and even then only if they have swords and not halberds or hammers] While the paladins have really good attacks, there are not all that many of them. Boys might be able to put on some hurt and the PK could ID a dude here or there. However, if there is a warding stave and an IC with the fancy grenades, you might not do well. Also, they will eat up the nobs with their force weapons, so only boys would be able to fight them with any kind of efficiency.

the issue with shooting them dead is you have limited AP2 or S8 firepower. Against less than that the paladins have 2W, 2+ and wound allocation. They are tough to take down with massed shoota fire alone.

Also, remember 20 boys+PK Nob (~160 pts) = 3 Paladins (~160 pts)


Purifiers:
you MUST shoot them dead, you have no good options for combat. Nobs run at them? they will get a lot of Force weapons to the face. Boys run at them? Cleansing flame and massive combat resolution will eat your unit.

A small or weakened unit could be dealt with by Nobs with minimal losses, but even 1 purifier will kill a lot of boys.
Also, be very careful of multiple assaults, they will eat you alive.



Henchmen:
None of the assault based henchmen have assault grenades. If they have to assault through cover they will be striking after your orks. The ONLY way around this is with a land raider crusader or redeemer. An IC will give the unit Defensive, Rad, Psychostroke, and Psyc-out grenades. An IC WILL NOT give the unit assault grenades, only the IC will benefit from assault grenades.

With T3 and usually less than amazing saves, you will want to hug cover and shoot the unit (even if it is with slugga boys) and force them to charge you so you can hit first and probably take out most of the unit.

Against any of the shooty henchmen, you can eat them in combat with no problems. Did you know that Gretchin hit Jokaeros on a 3+?



Strike Squad [also interceptors and puragtions]:
Can you beat up a tactical squad in combat? well then you can probably beat up these guys too. They will ignore your 6+ save and be S5, but overall they will simply not have enough attacks to really matter.

==================================================


Many times GK players will not cast their numerous psy powers at the right time during each turn or phase. Here are the big ones for you to remember:


-Quicksilver is the start of the GK MOVEMENT phase.
-Might of Titan is the start of the GK ASSAULT phase [before assault moves are made, NOT castable on the ork's turn]
-Hammerhand is at the start of ANY COMBAT [after assault moves are made, can be cast on either turn]
-Shrouding is the start of ORK SHOOTING phase.
-Sanctuary is the Start of the ORK ASSAULT phase [before assault moves are made]



The big one for you is might of titan. You can charge a unit with Killa Kans/Dreads, and he has to wait for his turn to cast might of titan. This gives you a chance to deal damage and break the unit, before the GK player can do a lot of damage in return.

Bacms wrote:As usual with Ork the solution is assault the shooty ones and shoot the assault ones. Paladins will destroy you in close combat but will die to volume of fire.

Actually, they don't. You need 72 wounds to cause a single casualty to a unit of five paladins with apothecary, that's 216 shootas shooting or 30 perfect burna hits.

svendrex wrote:Purifiers:
you MUST shoot them dead, you have no good options for combat. Nobs run at them? they will get a lot of Force weapons to the face.

In my experience, 7-8 nobz will win combat against a full unit of purifiers more often than not. They will not be able to take on another unit of purifiers, but the one they get the charge on will be dead. Have them punch henchmen or strike squads afterwards, or pick a fight with a psyflemen.
You need to deal wounds in order to instant-kill nobz, wounding and hitting on 4+, 5++ cybork, and the fact that anyone getting a pretty upgrade will not be wielding a NFW minimizes the instant deathes they can cause.

Awesome advice otherwise!

One thing to add: I know you are fielding Thrakka, chose wisely which enemy unit you want to get rid of. Against GK he is pretty much you wildcard for eliminating any one unit of purifiers, terminators, small paladin squads or cc henchmen. Very few of those will survive two rounds of S10 attacks with a 2++ save. Make sure he does that alone, anything else might cause him to lose combat and suffer fearless wounds.

BW rush is great against GK all the deff rollas decimate the paladins, from the D6 attacks to the ld check. Fill them with boys and assault what's left, only having psycannons they can only pen you on 6's or in close combat. If you play right, because they aren't mobile.

If you face purifiers or strike squads shoot the rhinos with your lootas and buggies, ram if necisarry, you want to keep your BW's up as long as possible because you want to ram the squads and shoot them with shootas from inside the BW's. Buggies could be good too because of all the AP3. Against strike squads don't be scared their just regular marines with special bolters, charge the crap out of them, just be careful with nobs.

Paladins are fearless though, so they don't care about their ld. They really don't like deff rollas though, 2d6 or even 3d6 S10 hits are bound to crush one or two paladins.

Buggies also can't ram (or tank shock for that matter).

When you're talking about a 2+ armor save and FNP with 2 wounds per model, you really have no other option than strength 8 AP2 or higher.

Boyz are a bad idea if he has FNP. If not, they just might be a mediocre idea.

Maybe time to use Ghazhkull Thraka.

Thanks for all the advice, I have been lucky so far in tourneys that I have not had to face GK, but I know it is only a matter of time... I practices with one GK, but he ran regular termies, and assasins and inquisitors and they fell pretty fast to cc and the deffrollas helped a lot. I am more worried about dreigo, palidins and purfiers.

TedNugent wrote:When you're talking about a 2+ armor save and FNP with 2 wounds per model, you really have no other option than strength 8 AP2 or higher.

You realize we're talking about orks here, right?

The only weapon that fits that profile is more likely to kill its wielder than a paladin.

Jidmah wrote:Paladins are fearless though, so they don't care about their ld. They really don't like deff rollas though, 2d6 or even 3d6 S10 hits are bound to crush one or two paladins.

Buggies also can't ram (or tank shock for that matter).

Paladins are NOT fearless

Purifiers are fearless
Draigo [who might be joined to the paladins] is fearless

Jidmah wrote:Paladins are fearless though, so they don't care about their ld. They really don't like deff rollas though, 2d6 or even 3d6 S10 hits are bound to crush one or two paladins.

Buggies also can't ram (or tank shock for that matter).

Purifiers are fearless. Paladins are NOT fearless and can be tank shocked + escorted off table.

Apothecare isn't autopick for 5 man Paladin squads. You can get 1.4 extra paladins for his upgrade cost and paladins generally get hit by enough S8 or AP2 shooting that it's debatable is he worth the points in such small squads.

Ghaz will be able to really put hurt on paladin squad.

Bite me, looks like I have to go dreadsock somebody. And tank shock his paladins with nine trukks next game.

Jidmah wrote:

TedNugent wrote:When you're talking about a 2+ armor save and FNP with 2 wounds per model, you really have no other option than strength 8 AP2 or higher.

You realize we're talking about orks here, right?

The only weapon that fits that profile is more likely to kill its wielder than a paladin.

Do you realize that Killa Kanz can get AP2 S8 for 5 points more per model than a Rokkit?

Do you realize that anything with a Power Klaw is Strength 8 and ignores armor saves/FNP?

Do you realize that all Dreadnoughts in the Ork codex have Strength 10 Power Weapons?

The rokkits, big gunz, kannons are only ap 3 so except for pk, don't really have anything that fits that bill except for unreliable Zzap gunz, Shock attack gun and a weirdboy

Jidmah wrote:Paladins are fearless though, .

Are you sure about that?

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:The rokkits, big gunz, kannons are only ap 3 so except for pk, don't really have anything that fits that bill except for unreliable Zzap gunz, Shock attack gun and a weirdboy

Except for what I already mentioned specifically.

Dreadnought close combat weapons which Killa Kanz and Deff Dreads have, Kustom Mega Blasta which can be put on Killa Kans for 20 pts a piece (with BS3).

throwing in ghaz in a tourney is a great plan he's a beast and will make paladins dissappear. they can only have one wound per allocation round on the warding staff in most instanced and ghaz will likely drop them in the round. there won't be much left after he finishes but as said it only works on the waagh when he gets the 2++

rokkit buggies x9 are a good purifier solution. if he has pallies in a land raider deffrolla the raider and ghaz charges the insides

TedNugent wrote:

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:The rokkits, big gunz, kannons are only ap 3 so except for pk, don't really have anything that fits that bill except for unreliable Zzap gunz, Shock attack gun and a weirdboy

Except for what I already mentioned specifically.

Dreadnought close combat weapons which Killa Kanz and Deff Dreads have, Kustom Mega Blasta which can be put on Killa Kans for 20 pts a piece (with BS3).

Okay sorry did not see that earlier, but went back and found it sorry.

But the concern I have, the deffdreads okay in cc, but the killa khans at ws 2 aren't going to do as well, but forgot about the mega blasta though....

Kustom megablastas on kanz might be a good way to deal with paladins str8 ap2 a bit more expensive than rokkits but bs3 and gets hot doesnt effect it

I could make a list with Ghazy, big mek with kff, burnas, 3 boyz squads 2 at 30, 1 at 12, gretchin 19, 3 squads of 3 killa kahn with kustom mega blasta, 1 deff dred with 2 mega blastas, the boys have 3 to 1 rokkit launchas...

Dont bother giving the deffdread a kmb its not worth it with his BS. Give him DCCW or Scorchas

I've always found the Shokk Attack Gun a good alternative.

Though I use it anyways regardless since I've always liked it.

The hard thing with big meks is that they take up a HQ slot, there are a lot HQs in the ork codex that are good. I just find the shokk attack gun unreliable

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:The hard thing with big meks is that they take up a HQ slot, there are a lot HQs in the ork codex that are good. I just find the shokk attack gun unreliable

I know it can be, but the day you roll a double six against a paladin group will be the most glorious thing you ever see.

I agree 100%... I would love to see that

Played against a very static "shoot" style of grey knights once. He had three rifleman dreads with psy ammo. He basically put everything on the back 6 inches of his deployment, and, I was at the 12 inch mark. He had a handfull of servitors with heavy bolters and a few chimeras. Basically he was shooting up my boy mobs before they could get across the board.

The vindicare was a pain to deal with too. He did take out some of the killa kans with it.

Best unit for me was a group of 10 kammandos with Snikrot. Grazkull Thraka with them to take care of those back line dreads shooting me apart. Took either the third or fourth turn for them to come in, but, once they did, they took care of alot of business and all fire power shifted on them, so, the remaining Kans (4 or 5), and half the boys got into it.

I have thought about snikrot, I have played him once with Mad Doc who gave them all cybork bodies, on the turn they came in they took out a vendetta and a leman russ tank, then proceeded to take out a chimera and veterans, at the end of the game snikrot and mad doc were all that were left, but they did a lot of damage.
So did you run a khan wall with big mek then too? Question how do you protect your whole khan wall with the kff as they have to be within 6" to get the cover save with 3 x3 kahns and a deff dread I do not see how they would ffit... thanks for the comments.

TedNugent wrote:

Jidmah wrote:

TedNugent wrote:When you're talking about a 2+ armor save and FNP with 2 wounds per model, you really have no other option than strength 8 AP2 or higher.

You realize we're talking about orks here, right?

The only weapon that fits that profile is more likely to kill its wielder than a paladin.

Do you realize that Killa Kanz can get AP2 S8 for 5 points more per model than a Rokkit?

Do you realize that anything with a Power Klaw is Strength 8 and ignores armor saves/FNP?

Do you realize that all Dreadnoughts in the Ork codex have Strength 10 Power Weapons?

I wasn't aware that close combat weapons have AP values now. Especially considering that GK get better invulnerable saves in close combat, those are entirely different things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:The hard thing with big meks is that they take up a HQ slot, there are a lot HQs in the ork codex that are good. I just find the shokk attack gun unreliable

I know it can be, but the day you roll a double six against a paladin group will be the most glorious thing you ever see.

You don't need box cars. Rolling a strength of 8-10 means 5++ or death for every paladin

You don't need box cars. Rolling a strength of 8-10 means 5++ or death for every paladin

Box cars would mean no 5++ or Draigo 3++ to begin with, draigo and them would just go back to the warp with a small poof.

Blowing away 60% of any given paladin unit in one shot is just as much going to win you the game as removing them completely from the table, believe me