Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Okay so i was thinking about the twin linked weapons, and the only difference beetwen them and normal versions is that they have 2 barrels.
Shouldnt that be represented by maybe another attack, or +1 to strenght / AP rather than being able to just re-roll failed to hit rolls.

I would think (and not being mathhammer capable i can't back this up) that having 2 shots or 1 shot with a re-roll would be more or less the same chance of hitting?

Praxiss wrote:I would think (and not being mathhammer capable i can't back this up) that having 2 shots or 1 shot with a re-roll would be more or less the same chance of hitting?

No because having 2 shots gives you a chance to get 2 shots out (therefore double damage) rather than only 1 shot where you can only ever get 1 shot (aldough with a higher chance to hit).
2 shots would give weapons on tanks (mainly) like twin linked lassacannon a bit more power.

So yes the chance to hit is higher, but higher damage output.

Praxiss wrote:I would think (and not being mathhammer capable i can't back this up) that having 2 shots or 1 shot with a re-roll would be more or less the same chance of hitting?

Basically yeah, but with 2 shots you have the possibility to hit twice

Lumppu wrote:

Praxiss wrote:I would think (and not being mathhammer capable i can't back this up) that having 2 shots or 1 shot with a re-roll would be more or less the same chance of hitting?

Basically yeah, but with 2 shots you have the possibility to hit twice

Thats what i said

Meh. Tryign to think of 2 comparabel example and the only thign i can thik of is the SM StormBolter vs the CSM TL Bolter.

I find the TL bolter is more reliable, but that is partly due to the fact that it fires twice at 12" to match the damage output form the Stormbolter.

Praxiss wrote:Meh. Tryign to think of 2 comparabel example and the only thign i can thik of is the SM StormBolter vs the CSM TL Bolter.

I find the TL bolter is more reliable, but that is partly due to the fact that it fires twice at 12" to match the damage output form the Stormbolter.

A storm bolter fires twice at up to 24" AFAIK...

Frankly, I've Always felt Twin Linked Weapons should basicly be 2 guns that have to fire as a single weapon, but are slightly cheaper for being 2 strapped together, solely because realisticly, 2 guns would mean the potential for more damage. (Though TL templates are fine as is)

I think that being able to take 'scoped' weapons that get re-rolls to hit (to represent increased accuracy) would make more sense.

I always thought that TL was disappointing, because 2 lascannons strapped together deals the same damage if it hits than a normal lascannon. Maybe TL gives +1 Strength as well like the OP said, and with poison you get rerolls to wound as well. Seems to me like what they did with TL was the lazy option.

Honestly, if TL means you strap 2 barrels together, it should work like this:
Roll to hit with one of them. If a hit is rolled, count it as 2 hits.
The game mechanics for current TL makes no sense. A double barreled rifle should not make you a better marksmen if you couldn't hit jack in the first place.

I mean seriously, you got 2 guns ductaped together. How the hell can one miss and the other one hit? Or rather, why do you get to reroll. We KNOW they don't shoot one barrel at a time and obviously that they don't only shoot one barrel if the first shot hits.

vulkan hestan says no to this rule. Assault 2 meltaguns armywide ...

terranarc wrote:Honestly, if TL means you strap 2 barrels together, it should work like this:
Roll to hit with one of them. If a hit is rolled, count it as 2 hits.
The game mechanics for current TL makes no sense. A double barreled rifle should not make you a better marksmen if you couldn't hit jack in the first place.

I mean seriously, you got 2 guns ductaped together. How the hell can one miss and the other one hit? Or rather, why do you get to reroll. We KNOW they don't shoot one barrel at a time and obviously that they don't only shoot one barrel if the first shot hits.

This is how it used to be in 2nd, I don't know why they made it reroll misses. It was one of the many reasons we skipped 3rd.

my twin linked tesla destructors would love even more hits in addition to tesla...

I mean, they should really change it around. As mentioned above it dosent make sense the way it is now, where does that re-roll come from and why shoot only with one lassacannon if you have two put together.

Dark Haemonculus wrote:vulkan hestan says no to this rule. Assault 2 meltaguns armywide ...

Assault 2 if you can hit. I'm not sure it'd make meltaguns much stronger. For me, it's all about hitting with the melta (since they hit about 10% of the times, inverse scaling with how desperately you need it to hit).
But wait, doesn't it make it mastercrafted? Or does it actually say twin-linked?

HF, Flamers, Meltaguns and MM are TL. TH are MC.

Dark Haemonculus wrote:vulkan hestan says no to this rule. Assault 2 meltaguns armywide ...

FAQ: Space Marines: Vulkan Hestan now makes all melta weapons reroll misses and flamers reroll wounds. SO EASY! If only GW wasn't afraid to use the FAQ for anything other than covering their own butts with something they forget. Let it correct a problem to make armies balanced (CRAZY, right?)

Defiler37 wrote:my twin linked tesla destructors would love even more hits in addition to tesla...

You raise a good point. Necron was written with 6th in mind so it's unlikely we'll see a change to TL rules.

Praxiss wrote:I would think (and not being mathhammer capable i can't back this up) that having 2 shots or 1 shot with a re-roll would be more or less the same chance of hitting?

I think it should be reroll to wound/pen as well.

another one I like is reroll to hit, wound/pen OR damage result. Only one reroll per weapon. This makes twin linked squads kind of difficult to deal with.

Well, we'll find out soon enough *evil laugh*...

Well I cant wait to see the 6 lascanon shots the vendettas get.

So, this has nothing to do with 6th edition, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

terranarc wrote:Honestly, if TL means you strap 2 barrels together, it should work like this:
Roll to hit with one of them. If a hit is rolled, count it as 2 hits.
The game mechanics for current TL makes no sense. A double barreled rifle should not make you a better marksmen if you couldn't hit jack in the first place.

I believe in 3rd edition, this was the twin-linked rule.

First off, I doubt they're going to change twin-linked with 6th Ed. :(

Secondly, yeah, twin-linked getting a re-roll always seemed like a bit of a cop-out to me. Personally I'd like to see the twin-linked rule just go and have each "twin-linked" weapon just have their own rules. For example, a twin-linked lascannon getting Lance or AP 1.

Marik Law wrote:First off, I doubt they're going to change twin-linked with 6th Ed. :(

Secondly, yeah, twin-linked getting a re-roll always seemed like a bit of a cop-out to me. Personally I'd like to see the twin-linked rule just go and have each "twin-linked" weapon just have their own rules. For example, a twin-linked lascannon getting Lance or AP 1.

That might actually make sense for lascannons due to the fact that they are AT weapons and the guns are so close together. The Germans tried to make a tank with two 120mm guns during the cold war with the goal of both shells hitting the same place and increasing penetration. The project was a failure, but the guns weren't anywhere near as close as 99% of twin-linked weapons.

Re-roll to wound (and to-penetrate) instead of to-hit? Fewer upgrades give re-rolls on wound in codexes and it makes more sense that a weapon which sends twice as many shots in the same direction would be more reliable than re-rolling it's chance to hit.

how about if you hit... you hit twice?? So only one to hit but two hits

Personally i think its fine as it is and a lot of effort would have to be put in if you were to change it as it is so widely used.

Seems like too much effort, personally i think its fine as is and does not need changing.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:So, this has nothing to do with 6th edition, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

terranarc wrote:Honestly, if TL means you strap 2 barrels together, it should work like this:
Roll to hit with one of them. If a hit is rolled, count it as 2 hits.
The game mechanics for current TL makes no sense. A double barreled rifle should not make you a better marksmen if you couldn't hit jack in the first place.

I believe in 3rd edition, this was the twin-linked rule.

No, it was as it is now. And how it will stay as well...

The simplest, and most logical fix is Twinlinked weapons have twice the shots / fire twice (however you want to put it)
This gives you the extra damage, and the equivalent accuracy, and it requires no particular effort to change.

Ovion wrote:The simplest, and most logical fix is Twinlinked weapons have twice the shots / fire twice (however you want to put it)
This gives you the extra damage, and the equivalent accuracy, and it requires no particular effort to change.

Perhaps if you hit with the first shot you get to make a second attack (which still needs To Hit as well). If you fail To Hit with the first attack you don't get to roll for the second.

Marik Law wrote:

Ovion wrote:The simplest, and most logical fix is Twinlinked weapons have twice the shots / fire twice (however you want to put it)
This gives you the extra damage, and the equivalent accuracy, and it requires no particular effort to change.

Perhaps if you hit with the first shot you get to make a second attack (which still needs To Hit as well). If you fail To Hit with the first attack you don't get to roll for the second.

Sounds legit.
They would only have to increase the cost a bit.