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Just as a warning, I'm about to rant a bit....

Grey Knights = Space Wolves = Blood Angels = Imperial Guard

Well played Necrons and Dark Eldar, I believe, can go in the list above.

Grey Knights are current Marine flavor and no more or less cracked then the last two. I watched players at my club take their 'whatever Marines' , call them counts as Salamanders -> Space Wolves -> Blood Angels -> Grey Knights. They were the same people playing with the same Marines and every one else was bitching the whole way though. I would Like to argue that those old 'broken' lists are still just as powerful, their just not played by those large swaths of power gamers who NEED to play new hot thing. As a small aside, if your a mech guard player and complaining about any other army in the game, go sit in a corner.

I actually want to give some props to Games Workshop, something I rarely do. I honestly believe that we have 6 well balanced current books in the game right now, and I don't know if that has ever happened before. Sure Dark Eldar and Necrons are a bit less forgiving then the marine flavors but they are still good armies, and in the right hands can stand toe to toe with anyone else.

This sounds pretty Corny.

Well played sir, well played.

GK is the weakest codex of all time.
A squad of 10 man terminators with storm shields, TL-Multimeltas and personal teleporters at 50/model could table GK's so easily it's not even funny.

If everything's broken, nothing's broken. =/

Yup, great strategy Games Workshop.

I actually think it is a great strategy. Why not have everything extremely powerful?

Wyrmalla wrote:If everything's broken, nothing's broken. =/

Yup, great strategy Games Workshop.

Um, yes?

Not sure if you're being sarcastic there...

=P I'm noting how its been said that Gray Knights are just as fair as Blood Angels....which in my own experiences are broken as hell. That's not to say they aren't easy to beat, but they aren't a fair army to play against, at least not in the way that things used to be. :/

Grey Knights aren't broken really. People complain about how they have all these great abilities and equipment and so on. But look how much models they have compared to you (of course unless you're Deathwing, bike list, or any others like them). Every army has it's weakness, you just have to find and deal with it.
Like a big one i hear around me is "It's not fair how a small squad of Purifiers can kill my hordes so easily with purifying flame". Easy solution, stop charging your 20 gaunts or slugga boyz in there and just shoot the piss out of them with with your many many hordes guns because they die the same as marines.
People just need to learn to start thinking outside the box with armies and their lists rather than running the same internet list you see over and over again and just hoping for a different result.
Just be creative and try new things in your army and you're bound to find something that works

Grey Knights aren't broken...

...everything else is just underpowered.

I want to see; Tau, Eldar, Nids and orks get better. It drives me nuts to hear people say knights need to get nerfed. Though I do feel bad for nid players against grey knights....

Like a big one i hear around me is "It's not fair how a small squad of Purifiers can kill my hordes so easily with purifying flame". Easy solution, stop charging your 20 gaunts or slugga boyz in there and just shoot the piss out of them with with your many many hordes guns because they die the same as marines.

Because often times with good maneuvering, there's these few issues

1: You cannot often get all 20+ horde shots in

2: A standard shoota horde of 20 will kill on average 2.22 marines with big shootas? 2.44

3. One purifier that manages to get up into assault will kill on average 8.33 models with just his purifying flame.

Sure they die like marines! However unlike marines a single one can cause a drastic pain to a horde.

Not to mention unlike marines, orks aren't good at doing what they are supposed to do, first shoot them with lots of shots, than charge. This weakens the overall power of the shoota mob as they literally have to retreat for once, else they be caught by the purifiers.

Then not all hordes have the ability to put out a lot of shots from a decent range...

I know 20 shoota boyz isnt enough to kill them but who says you cant combined fire with more than a single unit? Focus all your fire at a single unit at a time, taking them out one unit at a time aiming for the deadliest against you first. Just Orks for an example, you have more than just shoota boyz for that. You have Lootas, Looted Wagons, Burna Boyz (who can decimate them given the chance), Warbikers do great against infantry with 3 S5 twin linked shots each.

Im not trying to start any kinda flame war or sound like some "pro" player because trust me im not. Im just saying any army can be beaten given you try new approaches at dealing with it rather than the "competitive" way that people are making standard these days. People will expect the competitive way and know how to deal with it. But use more unorthodox tactics and lists and it will throw them off because it's something new they haven't faced and they actually have to think about what to do against it. It's never to late to teach an old dog new tricks as they say ^_^

Anyone can play with an army that broken and OP, but it takes a real player to win with a balanced codex.

Corny wrote:Just as a warning, I'm about to rant a bit....

Grey Knights = Space Wolves = Blood Angels = Imperial Guard

Well played Necrons and Dark Eldar, I believe, can go in the list above.

Grey Knights are current Marine flavor and no more or less cracked then the last two. I watched players at my club take their 'whatever Marines' , call them counts as Salamanders -> Space Wolves -> Blood Angels -> Grey Knights. They were the same people playing with the same Marines and every one else was bitching the whole way though. I would Like to argue that those old 'broken' lists are still just as powerful, their just not played by those large swaths of power gamers who NEED to play new hot thing. As a small aside, if your a mech guard player and complaining about any other army in the game, go sit in a corner.

I actually want to give some props to Games Workshop, something I rarely do. I honestly believe that we have 6 well balanced current books in the game right now, and I don't know if that has ever happened before. Sure Dark Eldar and Necrons are a bit less forgiving then the marine flavors but they are still good armies, and in the right hands can stand toe to toe with anyone else.

Strong username to how I feel about this thread ratio

Shoot them from range with my horde units?

You mean the zero range on the Genestealers or Hormagaunts?

Or the 12" range on the termagants? Unless I double the cost of the unit that is. And even then a good run roll could catch me.

rigeld2 wrote:Shoot them from range with my horde units?

You mean the zero range on the Genestealers or Hormagaunts?

Or the 12" range on the termagants? Unless I double the cost of the unit that is. And even then a good run roll could catch me.

+1 this.

Or how about I 'shoot' them with my non-existant guns in my 'insert non-tzeentch unit here' horde?
That's of corse, assuming I can even put models on the table and/or get them within their 18" range before the GK's wipe me out.



GK's are OTT plain and simple. Too many hard counters to pretty much everything in the game for little cost. Add to that some utterly broken filth like psycho 'nades, warp quake & fortitude and no game against GK's is all that much fun to play.
Most other armies need to either slightly tailor their list, or outright specifically tailor their list to combat what GK's bring to the table. For example, vs BA's, they're not going to bring their priests because the FnP bonus is negated in combat, while a DoA's army is useless if there's GKSS's or Interceptors running amock. Orks would need to go heavy on the Lootas, kans & wagons to combat a Purifyer spam. Daemons & Tyranids are just fethed!

True, they're not quite on the level of 7th edition Daemons of Chaos, but they're easily the closest thing currently in 40k to that level of derpy'ness!

Playing Grey Knights = playing 40k on 'easy mode'.

Corny wrote:Grey Knights = Space Wolves = Blood Angels = Imperial Guard

This is why 7 out of the top 16 armies at Adepticon were Grey Knights, with no Blood Angels armies making the top bracket

hotsauceman1 wrote:Anyone can play with an army that broken and OP, but it takes a real player to win with a balanced codex.

pretty much this, i now sometimes play with my space marines as blood angels when I want easy mode, I play with my orks when I want more of a challenge and I play my eldar when I'm feeling like playing in omwtfbbqsause hard mode.

the only reason I'd even considering getting myself a greyknights army is 10 termies and draigo can easily fit into my backpack for small low point games but i have 2 squads of sang guard and dante for that (plus 2 sang priests w/jumpacks just in case) so really it'd just be fore upping the points on my little travel army

Experiment 626 wrote: GK's are OTT plain and simple.

Over The Does not necessarily mean Over Powered. Yes some Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights are OTT, so are Dark Eldar and Necrons. All of them have larger than life Characters and Units, but none of them Win the Average Game by them selves.
My few Examples:
My Purifiers have only done so-so, because of three things.
1. They keep eating S10 AP2 Pie
2. They Keep getting Assaulted by Genestealer and on I7 I usually eat about 6-10 Rending Strikes.
3. I made the mistake of showing the other Marine Players What Plasma does to MEQs.
If don’t get saves I die.

I have a 1,300 point 3x Thunder-Lord/Thunder Wolf Death Star [Tell me that is not OTT], loaded up with Storm Shields. I managed to slam thing to the rear of three Ork Trucks loaded up with Choppy Boys. By the end of the Second Turn I had taken them all out, but I only one Thunder Lord Left.

Every Army has a Unit or 10 that are Over Powered in some manner or another. It just takes some thinking to both figure out which of your units are. You also quickly figure out their limitations to. If you can figure out what the other guy have figured out his Strengths and Weakness and exploit them.

All of this reminds me Nids were introduced. They dominated everywhere and everyone were crying about how “Brocken and Over The Top they were. Then the Canadians went “What’s every ones Problem we keep squashing them.

Just look around the Sites and Treads, what do you see.
o Grey Knights Are Overpowered, Help Me Beat them!
o How do I win With Grey Knights!
o How Do I Stop Leaf Blowers!
o How Do I Win With Guard!
o How Do Beat Eldar With My Blood Angels!
o How Do I Keep Blood Angels From Killing My Eldar!
To me this all sounds relatively balanced.

This Warhammer 40,000, with Mecha the size small cities, Maries who can survive getting hit in the chest by 120mm Rounds out of Rail Guns and Killer Robotic Doomsday Robots that can Warp Time and Space. Everything SHOULD be Over the Top.

GK isn't broken? And I'm the queen of England. How is S5 assault 2 "24 BS4 not cheesey? They put out more S5 than a DEVASTATOR SQUAD, granted it's less range, but who cares? They can Deep Strike!! Or an entire army being able to cause instant death in CC? Or being able to make people have one attack per guy....WHEN THEY CHARGED YOU!! Here let me take my LD check for Psychotroke oh wait, it just happens, and I'm helpless to defend against it. Just BAM 1 attack, oh wait I get +d3 attacks for Ragnar, NOPE! for that 5-10pt piece of wargear now I don't. Are you poor GK players getting nullified on "Hammerhand", and having to wound those pesky marines on a 4+ like most standard marines do? It's ok, just take rad grenades, and make a T4 marine T3 (couple with "Hammerhand" and you wound on a 2+ in CC when you don't get null'd) or make a T5 lychguard T4, and since crons can only null what's Targeting them, get off "Hammerhand" while your at it, and wound on a 3+ now...... Most armies have some kind of weakness, GK don't, say all you want about mech guard, but if you get them on the ground, it's all over but the crying, I played leafblower, It has it's disadvantages, like Necron nightfighting? I'm glad I got rid of them now. Moving right along, 20pts per man for a strike squad marine? they are 5 pts more than a grey hunter, can have S5 in CC and shooting, and did I forget to mention? Their a troops choice. GK can have +2 to reserves, S8 autocannons on the cheap, -6" from scatter when you're near those stupid servo skulls, and that's not just for you're men, no, it's for the orbital relay too, which is a S10, ap1 lance, and here's the kicker it's EVERY TURN!! I wouldn't be surprised if they F.A.Q'd in it also counts as a melta hit regardless of range. Even the next cheesiest builds from other dex's pale in comparison, wan't cheap but awesome melee with a bazillion power weapon attacks (3 attacks base, when not even charging), S4 base,(and if you stick a libby with them, do "Might of Titan" and make them S5) WS5 and I-6? take DCA's their 15pts per man, and can be a troops choice, pick up Coteaz, or do "Grand Bull****" and MAKE them a troops choice, it's you're pick of the cheese people, you want Swiss? Yours. You want Provolone? Done. That's just my 10 cents. Bottom line, when you can't even bring an army like Chaos Demons against them, chance's are, your dex is OP. GK=

Anpu42 wrote:2. They Keep getting Assaulted by Genestealer and on I7 I usually eat about 6-10 Rending Strikes.

You weren't standing in cover? Stealers don't have grenades.

Just look around the Sites and Treads, what do you see.
o Grey Knights Are Overpowered, Help Me Beat them!
o How do I win With Grey Knights!
o How Do I Stop Leaf Blowers!
o How Do I Win With Guard!
o How Do Beat Eldar With My Blood Angels!
o How Do I Keep Blood Angels From Killing My Eldar!
To me this all sounds relatively balanced.

There's threads for help with every army against every army. Bad players asking for help isn't an example of balance.

Everything SHOULD be Over the Top.
You can have both a balanced rule set and have it be over the top.

I don't think the Grey Knight codex is any more overpowered than the BA or SW codex. I just object to some of the arguments presented here.
Shoot them more? Really? Avoid CC? Wow, that's life changing advice right there.

bobamus87 wrote:GK isn't broken? And I'm the queen of England. How is S5 assault 2 "24 BS4 not cheesey? They put out more S5 than a DEVASTATOR SQUAD, granted it's less range, but who cares? They can Deep Strike!! Or an entire army being able to cause instant death in CC? Or being able to make people have one attack per guy....WHEN THEY CHARGED YOU!! Here let me take my LD check for Psychotroke oh wait, it just happens, and I'm helpless to defend against it. Just BAM 1 attack, oh wait I get +d3 attacks for Ragnar, NOPE! for that 5-10pt piece of wargear now I don't. Are you poor GK players getting nullified on "Hammerhand", and having to wound those pesky marines on a 4+ like most standard marines do? It's ok, just take rad grenades, and make a T4 marine T3 (couple with "Hammerhand" and you wound on a 2+ in CC when you don't get null'd) or make a T5 lychguard T4, and since crons can only null what's Targeting them, get off "Hammerhand" while your at it, and wound on a 3+ now...... Most armies have some kind of weakness, GK don't, say all you want about mech guard, but if you get them on the ground, it's all over but the crying, I played leafblower, It has it's disadvantages, like Necron nightfighting? I'm glad I got rid of them now. Moving right along, 20pts per man for a strike squad marine? they are 5 pts more than a grey hunter, can have S5 in CC and shooting, and did I forget to mention? Their a troops choice. GK can have +2 to reserves, S8 autocannons on the cheap, -6" from scatter when you're near those stupid servo skulls, and that's not just for you're men, no, it's for the orbital relay too, which is a S10, ap1 lance, and here's the kicker it's EVERY TURN!! I wouldn't be surprised if they F.A.Q'd in it also counts as a melta hit regardless of range. Even the next cheesiest builds from other dex's pale in comparison, wan't cheap but awesome melee with a bazillion power weapon attacks (3 attacks base, when not even charging), S4 base,(and if you stick a libby with them, do "Might of Titan" and make them S5) WS5 and I-6? take DCA's their 15pts per man, and can be a troops choice, pick up Coteaz, or do "Grand Bull****" and MAKE them a troops choice, it's you're pick of the cheese people, you want Swiss? Yours. You want Provolone? Done. That's just my 10 cents. Bottom line, when you can't even bring an army like Chaos Demons against them, chance's are, your dex is OP. GK=

Well, someone's bitter.

I disagree with quite a lot of the things that you're complaining about. For example, S5 Stormbolters (I assume then you mean Psybolt ammo) are largely regarded as a useless upgrade unless you take it on a 10-man squad. Do 6-8 S5 Ap5 shots really worry you that much? It's the Psycannons you need to watch, not the Stormbolters.

Also, very few units in the army can Deep strike; Only terminators (like all marines minus SWs) Interceptors (Like all Jump Infantry) and Strike Squads (Which are never really seen anyway).

Again, Psychotroke Grenades are limited to 3 models in the entire codex, 2 of which are seen as "not worth it" and the other is debatable. (And is actually 15pts)

Grey Knights, believe it or not, do have weaknesses; firstly, they are an incredibly elite army with a general low-model count. Also, they die just as any ordinary marines; AP1,2 and 3 weaponry is the way to go.

Eldar can also have +2 to reserves. It isn't a new phenomenon. In fact, most armies have ways to manipulate their reserve rolls.

Servo-skulls are so easy to get rid of it's almost not worth taking them; just move to within 6" of them. They also don't worl for things like the OSR.

I don't understand where you get the "3 attacks base, when not even charging" from? They only units that can do that is Terminators and Paladins with a Banner. And a model can do it if it has Falchions, but why on earth would anyone take those?

You're complaining about S4 base? Really? Reality check needed I think.

Librarians cannot make anyone WS5, only Paladins and DCult Assassins are WS5.

Only Coteaz can make Death Cults Troops and it's very easy to kill them if you can get them on foot.

I think you'll find that Chaos Daemons are more than capable of making a TAC build which can also give Grey Knights a run for their money, like Jy2's list here:

Fateweaver
Skarbrand

5x Bloodcrushers - Icon, Instrument
6x Fiends - Might
6x Fiends - Might

5x Pink Horrors - Bolt, Changeling
5x Pink Horrors - Bolt
5x Pink Horrors - Bolt
5x Pink Horrors - Bolt
5x Plaguebearers

16x Seekers of Slaanesh - Icon


Iranna.

2. They Keep getting Assaulted by Genestealer and on I7 I usually eat about 6-10 Rending Strikes.

Anpu42 wrote:
Just look around the Sites and Treads, what do you see.
o Grey Knights Are Overpowered, Help Me Beat them!
o How do I win With Grey Knights!
o How Do I Stop Leaf Blowers!
o How Do I Win With Guard!
o How Do Beat Eldar With My Blood Angels!
o How Do I Keep Blood Angels From Killing My Eldar!
To me this all sounds relatively balanced.

Or perhaps some people suck with good armies because GK, BA, SW, and IG are seen as good armies and are the ones that new players flock to because while winning might not be the first priority for a new player it can be the deciding factor between armies.
"I want to play marines, but I hear SW are a very good marine army compared to vanilla marines, so I will choose them."
"I want a small, mobile shooting army with cool tanks and little hand to hand ability, I would choose Tau, but IG are so much better right now."

Anpu42 wrote:

2. They Keep getting Assaulted by Genestealer and on I7 I usually eat about 6-10 Rending Strikes.

You weren't standing in cover? Stealers don't have grenades.

I does not help when they pop out of the Terrain Piece Behind You!

Actually, if you're standing in cover it will always help. And Ymgarl Genestealers (the ones that pop out of a terrain piece) can't strike at i7 ever.

Just look around the Sites and Treads, what do you see.
o Grey Knights Are Overpowered, Help Me Beat them!
o How do I win With Grey Knights!
o How Do I Stop Leaf Blowers!
o How Do I Win With Guard!
o How Do Beat Eldar With My Blood Angels!
o How Do I Keep Blood Angels From Killing My Eldar!
To me this all sounds relatively balanced.
There's threads for help with every army against every army.

Bad players asking for help isn't an example of balance.

I have seen some very experienced players start with the Phrase: I have been Playing my Army A for Years and I just can’t beat Army B now.

Experienced players that can't win with GK, IG, or BA are experienced bad players.

Everything SHOULD be Over the Top.

You can have both a balanced rule set and have it be over the top.
I don't think the Grey Knight codex is any more overpowered than the BA or SW codex. I just object to some of the arguments presented here. Shoot them more? Really? Avoid CC? Wow, that's life changing advice right there.

Nids: The Doom of Malan’ti in a Mynetic Spore, 1+ bad rolls and 1+ units go away or no longer have any combat effectiveness left., NO SAVE, as a free action, and is has a 3++ Save. Yes a S8 Weapon will ID it, but it has to fail its 3++ Save. [This one of the Two thing I have said “This is the closeset thing to a brocken unit I have ever seen!”

You get invuls and stupidly enough cover saves. Yes, if you ignore cover completely Nids get better. You're also a bad player.

Orks: Ork Battle-Wagon Deff-Roller Spam. [This is the Other One]

Um. You get armor saves vs deff rolla hits. And once they hit you the wagons are easier to pen - since they're only av14 on the front

Dark Eldar: Dark Lancer or Disintegrator SPAM
Necron: Gauss Cannon Spam
Guard: Plasma Cannon Spam/Chem Cannon Spam/Plasma Gun SPAM

Gauss Cannon spam doesn't sound very effective tbh. And the others sound average.

All of these have the potential to destroy any Marine Force by the end of the 2nd turn and only the Orks let you have any saves.

Woah - hold up. How the hell is the DoM destroying a marine force in one turn? His soul leech only has a 6" range. If you cluster your units up that close, it's not the Doom that's the issue.

Cover helps quite a bit. It sounds like you just don't use it. I recommend you start.

GK aren't that bad, dragio wing and henchman spam is a problem but the rest of the army isn't a big deal.

TBH SW are much more powerful overall, cheap rules, weapons, units and psychic powers go a long way, longer than GK with force weapon spam.

Just look around the Sites and Treads, what do you see.
o Grey Knights Are Overpowered, Help Me Beat them!
o How do I win With Grey Knights!
o How Do I Stop Leaf Blowers!
o How Do I Win With Guard!
o How Do Beat Eldar With My Blood Angels!
o How Do I Keep Blood Angels From Killing My Eldar!
To me this all sounds relatively balanced.
Or perhaps some people suck with good armies because GK, BA, SW, and IG are seen as good armies and are the ones that new players flock to because while winning might not be the first priority for a new player it can be the deciding factor between armies.
"I want to play marines, but I hear SW are a very good marine army compared to vanilla marines, so I will choose them."
"I want a small, mobile shooting army with cool tanks and little hand to hand ability, I would choose Tau, but IG are so much better right now."

Until about a year ago I would have completely agreed with this. I have been playing my Space Wolves since the 1st Edition/Rouge Trader days and usually won. In fact I am a good tactician as long as I roll at least average I usually win with most games [BattleTech, Star Fleet Battles, Axis and Allies Miniatures]

Then we some new guys joined us. One of them I can not beat him with my Wolves no mater what I used or what he used. This has been forcing me to totally rethink everything, List Building, Fighting Styles ect.
I have considered posting here and asking “What Do I Do?”

As far as the “I like Army A, but Army B is better, I will choose Army B”. We have not had much of that with us. Two of us are planning on building a 2,000 points of the “Latest Army”, but that is so when we get new players we can go “You Want to try Necrons, well here try mine”.


I does not help when they pop out of the Terrain Piece Behind You
Actually, if you're standing in cover it will always help. And Ymgarl Genestealers (the ones that pop out of a terrain piece) can't strike at i7 ever.

When you commented and said about cover and I commented about popping up behind me they were two different incidents [maybe I should have been more clear about that.]

Experienced players that can't win with GK, IG, or BA are experienced bad players.

That why they are asking for advice, to become Good Players.


Nids: The Doom of Malan’ti in a Mynetic Spore, 1+ bad rolls and 1+ units go away or no longer have any combat effectiveness left., NO SAVE, as a free action, and is has a 3++ Save. Yes a S8 Weapon will ID it, but it has to fail its 3++ Save. [This one of the Two thing I have said “This is the closeset thing to a brocken unit I have ever seen!”

You get invuls and stupidly enough cover saves. Yes, if you ignore cover completely Nids get better. You're also a bad player.

No! Sometimes you have to leave Cover.

Orks: Ork Battle-Wagon Deff-Roller Spam. [This is the Other One]
Um. You get armor saves vs deff rolla hits. And once they hit you the wagons are easier to pen - since they're only av14 on the front

Did You Read this Quote?

All of these have the potential to destroy any Marine Force by the end of the 2nd turn and only the Orks let you have any saves.

Dark Eldar: Dark Lancer or Disintegrator SPAM
Necron: Gauss Cannon Spam
Guard: Plasma Cannon Spam/Chem Cannon Spam/Plasma Gun SPAM

Gauss Cannon spam doesn't sound very effective tbh. And the others sound average.

S5, AP3, Assault 2, Marines are wounded on a 3+ and then Die, what’s not effective about that.

Woah - hold up. How the hell is the DoM destroying a marine force in one turn? His soul leech only has a 6" range. If you cluster your units up that close, it's not the Doom that's the issue.

Lets see here [By the way this happened to me]

Nid Turn 2:
Nid Movement:
It lands between 2 Units, 1 Paladin Squad [5 models] and One Purifier Squad [6 Models] and Crowe are all within 6” of it. Everyone was moving and in the open, but behind some hills.

Nid Turn 2 Shooting Phase:
Paladin Squad Roll a 17 for its Moral and takes; That’s 8 Wounds of which 3 with both 5++ and FNP [Like I said with some bad Rolls] are made and the squad takes 5 wounds, Abusing Wound allocation all 5 take 1 wound.
The Purifiers roll a 16, that’s 7 No-Save Wounds; No-more Purifiers.
Crowe Rolls a 17, now he needs to make 8 saves.

Nid Turn 2 Assault Phase: The Genestealer brood slams into the Paladins and they do well except I loose one Paladin in the Assault [I am now down to 2 Paladins] and are locked in Close Combat and Cannot Move.

Next Turn
My Movement:
The Paladins can not Move.

My Shooting Phase:
I roll a 15 and Fail 4 of my 6 5++ Saves [For once I rolled Average].

Cover helps quite a bit. It sounds like you just don't use it. I recommend you start.
Once more Sometimes you just cant find cover.

And a 5++ save is till only a glorified T-Shirt.

I don't quite understand your last post, what with the damaged quote tags and all, but as far as I can tell you're making quite a few tactical errors:

1) Marines are not really destroyed by Doom of Malantai unless you have a terrible list (i.e. a foot list) AND are bunching up. Avoid those and you're golden.

Yes, there are some situations wherein the Doom is good. But he is not really very good on the whole, and so if you can mitigate those situations, then you win. Simples.

2) Cover - cover protects you from assaulters without grenades AND from bullets. Use it. If you can't find it with your only-has-twenty-models GK army, then perhaps you're playing on a board with insufficient terrain.

3) What isn't effective about Gauss Cannon spam is the same thing that isn't effective about Ion Cannon spam for the Tau. Cover saves and 2+ armor. Here's some mathhammer:

To kill 10 Marines in cover on average is 25 Gauss Cannons, or 50 shots. If the Necrons are spending that many points on Gauss Cannons, then your tanks will be VERY VERY VERY Happy, because even Rhinos will be practically immune to his army.