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Hmm, still disappointed by the Changeling.

Wish I'd picked up the still-current one while I had the changce.

The LoC/Kairos model is absolutely stunning, but I feel sorry for the guy that has to transport it to a tournament. How would you safely pack a model that splays outward in so many directions?

I think that GW has done a great job creating a more distinct daemon faction with this release of DoT. I've really liked painting those included in ST and think that the aesthetic is interesting.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Hmm, still disappointed by the Changeling.

Wish I'd picked up the still-current one while I had the changce.

The old changeling is still available on the GW website.

Chikout wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Hmm, still disappointed by the Changeling.

Wish I'd picked up the still-current one while I had the changce.

The old changeling is still available on the GW website.

He's listed as 'Temporarily Out of Stock' in several regions, including Australia. I wouldn't expect to see it restocked before he gets replaced by the new plastic model.

I thought I would never be tempted back yo Warhammer Fantasy, but with this release and the additional world building in City of Secrets I think they may have caught me. Will read book and see where we go from there.....

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

Chopxsticks wrote:
The Ogroid Thaumaturge is $41 USD..... What in the Holy Hell....
Also book and dice already sold out =/ so lame

At least that book says "Temporarily out of stock". I was going to get the 40k genestealer cults codex but that one says "no longer available".

GW - doing what it can to discourage people from buying their models.

GSC? Codexes everywhere are being sould out, kind of obviously because a new edition.

Oh man. City of Secrets is great so far......

AoS is moving into a coherent world!

Can't wait to see the next campaign book.

Mac V wrote:
Oh man. City of Secrets is great so far......

AoS is moving into a coherent world!

Can't wait to see the next campaign book.

It's almost as it had been just starting to set the bases for its world!

From TGA:

Point Costs:

Kairos 340 Leader, Behemot, unique
Lord of change 300 Leader, Behemot,
Kairic Acolytes 10-40 140 Battleline
Blue Horrors 10-30 50
Brimstone Horrors 10-30 40
Magister 120 Leader
Tzaangor Enlightened 3-9 160
Tzaangor Shaman 120 Leader
Tzaangors 10-30 180 Battleline

Very interesting.
Fateweaver has more consistent damage output now; his Staff is 2 attacks rather than D6 which is a bummer but his Beaks and Claws are set at 5 attacks and now do 2 Damage each, so all in all I'd say he's better at dealing melee damage than before. A specific nerf to Oracle of Eternity aside, paying +40 points for an extra 4 Wounds, better melee stats and swapping decreasing Beak attacks for slower Movement seems like a fair enough trade to me.
The Lord of Change was definitely mega-buffed with the same positive changes to Fateweaver - Staff gets an extra Attack, Beak and Talons don't get weaker and do 2 Damage, alternative weapon options, +4 Wounds, etc - and getting slower Movement as he gets weaker doesn't seem like a major deal to me. It's also a bit harder to drop his Infernal Gateway spell down which is a big plus. Adding unique spells to the army to (presumably) give Pink Horrors actual use outside of just Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield will make the Lords' Command Ability all the more valuable.
The Acolytes are...interesting. They're best compared to Pink Horrors; the Horrors are slightly slower, are harder to kill, can split (not that you'd want to in Matched Play), shoot better in a unit of 20, are wizards and have much higher Bravery plus the chance to regain models. The Acolytes are instead far better in close combat and have a gimmicky anti-wizard rule. They seem ok but not great.
Horrors are Horrors.

The Magister seems like a decent enough Wizard. He gets a shooting attack unlike most 120-100 point Wizards, has a funny gimmick if he rolls doubles for casting but has a mediocre unique spell. He's ok.
Tzaangor Enlightened obviously need to be mounted on Disks if there is no points difference, they're almost half as good without them. Their special rules are unusual, especially the "you attack me first so I can hit you harder in return" rule but with that and a nearby Tzaangor Shaman they can really pile on the pain for their price. If you round up averages and make use of Guided by the Past I'm pretty sure three of them - providing none die first - should kill 5 Liberators in one round of combat. Nice! Moving 16" is what makes this unit tick compared to something like Kurnoth Hunters that obviously have them beat in the damage dealing and durability departments, though from what I can tell the Enlightened with both their buffs active plus the Disks might actually out-damage Greatsword Hunters on average rolls?
The Tzaangor Shaman looks like a good unit, same cost as other Wizards but moves 16", has 6 Wounds, flies, has surprisingly decent combat stats with the trade-off of another mediocre spell, but the guaranteed ability to cast two spells once per game with a big buff to his casting rolls (superfluous with a nearby Lord of Change though) which is useful with the new spell lores.

Tzaangors are great, straight Battleline Tzaangors are even better. 180 for 10 might seem steep but remember that these things are essentially Liberators with trade-offs. Slightly cheaper for the same unit size, weaker save, lower Bravery but faster pus the ability to run and charge. These really shine if you take them in big units and max out on all the upgrades; a unit of thirty with six mutants, twelve greatblades and eighteen paired savage blades with a nearby Arcanite Hero for support will output 96 Paired Savage Blade attacks at 3+/3+/0 Rend/1 Damage, 48 Savage Greatblade attacks at 4+/3+/-1 Rend/2 Damage and 30 Vicious Beak attacks at 4+/4+/0 Rend/1 Damage; don't forget that the unit leader gets +1 to-hit! All of that, from one unit that costs 540 points (not including a cheap Arcanite Hero), is awesome and will blast through most things in the game provided you can get them all to attack...and that's a unit with 60 5+ save Wounds that can be made immune to Battleshock via Inspiring Presence (or you can just use Destiny Dice to mitigate those) and work super well with Mystic Shield. Against Archaon and not accounting for the Eye of Sheerian (possible it doesn't affect the result at all, likely minimal effect if it does) you're looking at around 14 (PSBs) + 16 (SGBs) + 2-3 (VBs) = 32-33 unsaved wounds in total if they can all attack! Even a basic unit of 10 with a nearby Arcanite Hero is easily out-damaging Liberators while being far more mobile EDIT: 10 Tzaangors with that all important Arcanite Hero within 9" and all available upgrades with Paired Savage Blades being the main weapon of choice will dole out 20 3+/3+/0 Rend/1 Damage attacks, 8 4+/3+/-1 Rend/2 Damage attacks and 10 4+/4+/0 Rend/1 Damage attacks. Also, their mortal wound ability is hilarious; a good Tzeentch army should have at least 4 Wizards by my reckoning in 1500+ points, and each Tzaangor unit near them can use them to start blasting enemies with mortal wounds. It also messes up other wizard-heavy armies thanks to the rule drawing on both enemy and friendly wizards. I'm not sure if going all out and using big units of 30 is necessarily the best idea but they seem pretty damned nasty to me in that configuration, an alternative would be to run several smaller units to fill your Battleline tax and then take a whole bunch of Wizards (Pink Horrors?) and keep them all together to output lots of mortal wounds.

The units themselves seem mostly good to decent and none of them seem like bad picks. The new spell lores will give units like Pink Horrors some much needed freedom to actually cast spells in Matched Play and take full advantage of the many crazy buffs to casting and unbinding that the army gets. The Destiny Dice are going to be really powerful if you know what you're doing and have a good spread of results; according to the GW reps on Twitch, you can use them to affect things like how many mortal wounds a spell does...like the Ogroids' that does D6 mortal wounds. Combine that with a Lord of Change and the Blue Scribes to make it really likely you get the spell off and you're in business. There's a use for any result really; 1s can be used for Battleshock - nasty with Pink Horrors especially - or burned through on unimportant rolls so that you can generate more with spells/artefacts, and there's a lot you can do with 6s in this army. Also according to a blogger that got his book early and has been posting pictures, there are FOUR sets of Artefacts (2 for Daemons, 1 for Arcanites, 1 for Mortals) and three sets of Command Traits (for each sub-faction). Those could affect the army in a big way, especially as it seems like army can really benefit from taking lots of characters with all the powerful spells and stacking buffs they can give each other. Depending on what you can fit in this army should be able to sling mortal wounds around almost as well as Beastclaw Raiders which is damned good.

Mac V wrote:
Oh man. City of Secrets is great so far......

AoS is moving into a coherent world!

Can't wait to see the next campaign book.

See the book is great!

Also I feel this book helps some of the older ones think about it in a few years people can go back and go OH yeah the realms where like that! Or this! It makes you realize how bad things were in context that before sigmar launched his war against chaos with his armies in the very first book they noted in the realm of fire most people don't live until 20 years of age. With the khorne blood bound running around.

It's like the first set of books was setting the backdrop and establishing it and now this phase of books is filling in the bits and adding depth.

Also the city is one of the MAIN cities in Ghur so expect to see more from it in the future. It's like an ostland, reikland etc.

this really gives me hope for what they could do for slaanesh. cmon cow-crab!

Pariah-Miniatures wrote:
this really gives me hope for what they could do for slaanesh. cmon cow-crab!

Well considering tzeentch is responsible for slaanesh's disappearance and then reinforces that in the battletome snippet we have, I suspect slaanesh turn will come at some point.

Unfortunate that they are continuing with one warscroll = one point cost. Wanted to run Tzaangor Enlightened on foot? Too bad! That option may as well not exist in matched play because the disc, a straight upgrade, costs the exact same.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Unfortunate that they are continuing with one warscroll = one point cost. Wanted to run Tzaangor Enlightened on foot? Too bad! That option may as well not exist in matched play because the disc, a straight upgrade, costs the exact same.

Even outside matched play, why would you not take them on discs?

I am very excited for the Tzaangor disc guys. I play Flesh eaters for AoS, but I'm building a 1k Sons army and I'll use them for exalted sorcerers

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Unfortunate that they are continuing with one warscroll = one point cost. Wanted to run Tzaangor Enlightened on foot? Too bad! That option may as well not exist in matched play because the disc, a straight upgrade, costs the exact same.

Even outside matched play, why would you not take them on discs?

The only thing I can think of, and it's a stretch, is that it elevates the model and makes it harder to hide the model from ranged attacks.

I said it was a stretch...

That's exactly the point, if the non-disc option cost less than we would have two notably different ways of running the Enlightened; as basic monstrous infantry or a faster, more elite option. Asking why not take them on discs outside of matched play is kind of like asking why not take 5 bloodthirsters instead of 5 khorne heralds; it kinda misses the whole idea.

If I had time and money I'd jump on these releases. Must stay focused for the inevitable new elf releases.

 shinros wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Ohh, I'm torn between wanting to know but don't want it spoiled until i get mine either..

Oh well, it's one of hundreds of books that have yet to explore the setting. Spoiling it for myself won't hurt in the long run.

Well I can say one thing witch hunters can crucify people.

That's all I will say for now.

Good to know.

Certainly not the worst thing they've ever used, though. I was really impressed in one short story of a corrupt witch hunter using the equivalent of the Greek brass bull, one of the most horrific things to come out of human history.

 shinros wrote:
Also I do like to add if you were on the fence about AOS lore I would say the city of secrets might tip you over. Also if you like it already and you are looking for novel looking at how mortals and the various races live in the cities the novel is for you and how they view stormcast and the various other aspects of the realm and there are some real life issues in the novel like discrimination/racism etc.

I like the warhammer world BUT with more novels like the city of secrets I feel it will surpass whfb.

Also GW can we have an AOS RPG already? I mean after reading the book we need one like seriously.

I second that plea for an AoS rpg! Besides awesome background books and role-play it would be a great way to work in more focus on narrative battles.

Lord Kragan wrote:

Mac V wrote:
Oh man. City of Secrets is great so far......

AoS is moving into a coherent world!

Can't wait to see the next campaign book.

It's almost as it had been just starting to set the bases for its world!

Haha, very true. Though I would have liked it if AoS started during the age of myth and we got to see the glorious mortal empires and magic wonders throughout the realms I certainly can see why they started of in the more classic "legendary army beating back the previously unstoppable darkness"(see: LotR human/elf alliance vs Sauron,WFB Battle for Blackfire pass/twelve battles of Gilles) part of world building to work off of for their new setting and expand it from there.

I'm actually excited to maybe build terrain for the game now.

I generally play historicals. One thing about GW games that has always looked odd to me was the lack of scatter terrain. Odds and ends. Seems there's usually a board with 6 or so pieces of terrain and minis.

With the new book and update to the setting, it'll be easier to come up with some. It just ties the boards together so much nicer.

Lord Kragan wrote:

Mac V wrote:
Oh man. City of Secrets is great so far......

AoS is moving into a coherent world!

Can't wait to see the next campaign book.

It's almost as it had been just starting to set the bases for its world!

Yeah or like someone new is in charge now and noticed the lemon they had produced and decided to pull it back into a coherent setting.

I'm itching to see the arrow disc dudes costs and the battallions. I feel like tzaangor are going to be my go to battleline if I field a decent numbe of wizads. 8-15 mortal wounds on a 4+ depending on if I run 3x10 or 2x10 and 4 wizards is crazy good since they are still solid in cc too.

Overall I'm super excited for this release.

SeanDrake wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

It's almost as it had been just starting to set the bases for its world!

Yeah or like someone new is in charge now and noticed the lemon they had produced and decided to pull it back into a coherent setting.

Yep,
And for me it has lost all appeal, now we know they are writing it just for the sake of it.

They are still hitting it out of the park with some of the latest releases, mind you !

 Rayvon wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

It's almost as it had been just starting to set the bases for its world!

Yeah or like someone new is in charge now and noticed the lemon they had produced and decided to pull it back into a coherent setting.

Yep,
And for me it has lost all appeal, now we know they are writing it just for the sake of it.

They are still hitting it out of the park with some of the latest releases, mind you !

I disagree with sean if you read between the lines in the novel it's still the AOS world some of the stuff in there would never occur in whfb. It's just that they never really explored what goes on in the cities(Since at the fluff start point there were none, chaos reigned supreme with a few hold outs) and in the previous books you clearly see how normal people lived under the age of chaos so if you actually read the previous novels it lends better to the city of secrets in my opinion since you will understand the situation with the reclaimed more.

Even if the native people of the realms no longer have to fear for their lives in sigmar's cities its not all that great either in context of the discrimination and their living standards. Compared to azyerites.

Anyway I updated my lore thread with city of secrets information those who are interested.

SeanDrake wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

Mac V wrote:
Oh man. City of Secrets is great so far......

AoS is moving into a coherent world!

Can't wait to see the next campaign book.

It's almost as it had been just starting to set the bases for its world!

Yeah or like someone new is in charge now and noticed the lemon they had produced and decided to pull it back into a coherent setting.

Could you specify what made it incoherent before and coherent now, based on the previous books you read?

I very much disagree with that "lemon" statement as well.

It implies GW are backstepping from the setting rather than what they've been doing with every novel and battletome which have expanded it and given many interesting insights.

Besides the numerous novels showing the state of the average humans living in the lands occupied by chaos and battletomes showing the grander view of AoS with how the races interact and live we already had a "coherent setting" book with "Daemon of the deep".

So I suppose it would be fair to say AoS was a lemon during it's first few months(there was so much that could've been added) but GW had already by then turned it into a very delightful lemonade.

Yep, 
And for me it has lost all appeal, now we know they are writing it just for the sake of it. 
 

Apologies but what exactly does this mean?

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Unfortunate that they are continuing with one warscroll = one point cost. Wanted to run Tzaangor Enlightened on foot? Too bad! That option may as well not exist in matched play because the disc, a straight upgrade, costs the exact same.

Even outside matched play, why would you not take them on discs?

One potential reason may be if the kit allows you to build 3 disc mounted Skyfires, and IN ADDITION, 3 foot enlightened. Then the kit would be better value as you would get two units for the price of one, and you would have a nice elite choice for a pure tzaangor army.

mhsellwood wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Unfortunate that they are continuing with one warscroll = one point cost. Wanted to run Tzaangor Enlightened on foot? Too bad! That option may as well not exist in matched play because the disc, a straight upgrade, costs the exact same.

Even outside matched play, why would you not take them on discs?

One potential reason may be if the kit allows you to build 3 disc mounted Skyfires, and IN ADDITION, 3 foot enlightened. Then the kit would be better value as you would get two units for the price of one, and you would have a nice elite choice for a pure tzaangor army.

As good as GW is becoming lately, that's an unreasonably optimistic view.

CMLR wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

Chopxsticks wrote:
The Ogroid Thaumaturge is $41 USD..... What in the Holy Hell....
Also book and dice already sold out =/ so lame

At least that book says "Temporarily out of stock". I was going to get the 40k genestealer cults codex but that one says "no longer available".

GW - doing what it can to discourage people from buying their models.

GSC? Codexes everywhere are being sould out, kind of obviously because a new edition.

Question could be said then, why release it in the first place then?

This is one of the reasons why I don't want to buy any books from GW. Who knows how long it can last for. 1 year, 6 months or 10 years? Be nice to know and not feel like a sucker if it's only 6 months shelf life. It's one thing going in knowing the book will not last long, but entirely different going in that you will get 2 years or more of use out of it.

Davor wrote:

CMLR wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

Chopxsticks wrote:
The Ogroid Thaumaturge is $41 USD..... What in the Holy Hell....
Also book and dice already sold out =/ so lame

At least that book says "Temporarily out of stock". I was going to get the 40k genestealer cults codex but that one says "no longer available".

GW - doing what it can to discourage people from buying their models.

GSC? Codexes everywhere are being sould out, kind of obviously because a new edition.

Question could be said then, why release it in the first place then?

This is one of the reasons why I don't want to buy any books from GW. Who knows how long it can last for. 1 year, 6 months or 10 years? Be nice to know and not feel like a sucker if it's only 6 months shelf life. It's one thing going in knowing the book will not last long, but entirely different going in that you will get 2 years or more of use out of it.

It's been like that for 20 years, and codexes being relevant for only 2 years or less is unusual, not the norm.

As for the GSC codex, chances are is because it's going t be reprinted in softback and has nothing to do with the rumoured 8th edition, which is thought to be coming in the summer. I mean, when Fantasy switched to Sigmar, GW didn't remove the army books from the stores until a month or so before hand and you can still get them digitally off the Black Library site.