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just a heads up, this is not a GW hate thread

So I play games up in Madison Wisconsin most of the year. There, 40k DOMINATES the local meta with I would say about 80% of the wargammers playing 40K and Fantasy and LOTR getting little representation

Then i came home to Saint Louis and here Fantasy and LOTR seem to be dominating 40k in the number of players and product sold at my local GW.

So this made me wonder, on the scale of all of GW's sales, which is the biggest seller(i imagine 40k) and by how much?

If I recall correctly, on a national basis, the US has more 40k sales, but Europe has more Fantasy sales. At least I believe that's the case, but I could be all kinds of wrong.

I'm pretty certain that UK is 40k too, although you do sometimes find pockets of LOTR resistance, which I do enjoy as I now get to play games of that as well.

Wasn't it Rick Priestly who said that Space Marines outsell all of Fantasy?

Yea 40k is by in large the greatest seller, were as fantasy comes in 2nd and LOTR in third. As for the actual numbers, I know people theorize about it, but I don't think GW has ever released their actual sales numbers. Just how much they are making off crappy finecast + price increases.

That makes sense.

Space Marines > Fantasy > Rest of 40k > Other Games GW Advertises > Other Games GW doesn't care about

Where do you play, dajobe? We've got a nice little WFB group going at Game Nite on Thursdays...

The only game nite that I know of is in STL and I havent been there yet because I completely forgot about it until now...but up until this point my STL gaming has taken place at the new GW store

The last figures I heard, were.

GW plc core games.(Appx break down of sales 2009.)

40k 50% of sales.

Lotr 30% of sales

WHFB 20% of sales.

Lotr has lots more 'out side' gaming support.(EG not played in GW B&M stores.)

Make of that what you will...

Source?

Lanrak wrote:The last figures I heard, were.

GW plc core games.(Appx break down of sales 2009.)

40k 50% of sales.

Lotr 30% of sales

WHFB 20% of sales.

Lotr has lots more 'out side' gaming support.(EG not played in GW B&M stores.)

Make of that what you will...

Like 12thRonin said, source?

Someone posted some sales figures for USA here on Dakka last year, where 40k came first, then came warmachine, then hordes and then WHFB, LoTR wasn't even in the top 10, AFAIR.

Over here in Europe, WHFB used to sell more than 40K, but 8th edition changed that.

Bit of an interesting aside.

I worked for GW during the time which has since been known as the Bursting of the LoTR bubble. I don't want to go into detail, and make issue with a company who for the most part were a good employer, and also the fact that it is some years ago now but it was a pretty bleak period in terms of the company losing sales. But, during one of the annual staff meetings we were all presented with sales figures for the various games. And, the graph we were presented with pretty much supported that above quote; 40k sold most, followed by LoTR and then WFB. The general consensus was 'well they aren't coming from my store'.

Is it genuine? We have no way of knowing - if GW presumably knew that the Hobbit film was coming some years ago, then that would have been cause to keep even a product line that had poor sales. It's a shame, because I actually think the LoTR models are some of the best the company has ever produced. But, I can't shake the feeling that I would love the company to do a 'revolving' policy of a 3rd core game, as they used to, switching between the various specialist games every now and again. All the old favourites (BFG, Mordheim, BB, Epic etc.) while perhaps using that big pool of design talent they have to try and make something new, rather than just "previous codex/army book, +0.1 edition" which they have been doing for the past 5 years +. I can live in hope in any case, I'm trying to envisage anything that would make me want to step inside a GW store again

Pacific wrote:The general consensus was 'well they aren't coming from my store'.

As a long term player of LotR from 2001 to date and former Mod at TheLastAlliance.com (at the time in question the largest LotR discussion group/forum), I would concur. Generally speaking (with the very occasional, notable exception) GW stores were *horrible* places for LotR gamers in the early noughties. The general hostility to new ideas and people of the dominant 40k crowd was bigoted and thoroughly nasty. That included many, many of the staff who would be outright patronising and mocking, let alone the mouth-breathing fethers who couldn't bear the continued existence of a game that they in their ignorance blamed for the malaise 40k struck in the late 3rd/early 4th edition period. The thought of actually gaming in that environment was repugnant to me and very many of the other folks I spoke to online at that period. The phenomenon was even more noticeable in the US than in the UK and Europe.

My understanding (anecdotally from many conversations online) was that the vast majority of LotR players either bought online, or if they absolutely had to, just made very quick forays into the stores to buy stuff and then ran back out as quickly as possible.

Certainly there was/is much less crossover than one would expect between LotR players and 40k/WFB players - due initially to this perceived hostility, and also due to the significant stylistic differences between LotR and the other two core systems - many folks liked the "realistic" style of LotR and its straight-forward and intuitive rules, and disliked the "cartoony" and much more complicated rules of 40k/WFB. Also there is a huge component of LotR collectors who are simply that and really aren't that interested gaming.

Simply put, LotR sales and gamers were (and still probably are) totally invisible to store staff and other in-store gamers. Doesn't mean they don't or didn't exist.

Think of this: GW had no compulsion of squatting beloved titles like BloodBowl and GorkaMorka and so forth. If LotR didn't sell well do you really think they would keep it going? Forthcoming expected Hobbit-bubble or not? Seriously?

In any case, once the Hobbit-bubble has burst ,in maybe 2 years time (I would expect post the 2nd film DVD release, so that makes it Christmas 2014) then we will see how long their interest in the product line continues. The first bubble was supported largely by the TV advertising and the good deals available with the BGiMe partwork. That isn't going to be available this time around and of course we now have the wonders of Finecast to spoil things as well, so likely the bubble will not be as big nor last as long this time around. If the LotR line continues much beyond 2014 (or at least y/e May 2015) then we will really see what the ground level support for the game is. And to be honest by that stage it will have survived for 13 years, so surely would be justified as no longer a "new" game, even to the most diehard of 40k players?

In the United States, definantly 40k.