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With the new rules coming out. Any one think a CCB will be as effective in 6th as they were in 5th?

Not sure if to take a straight Overlord and just take another annihilation.

Look like they will be getting the chariot rules, allowing them to assault into close combat. Interesting to see how that stacks with the sweep attacks,

Leth wrote:Look like they will be getting the chariot rules, allowing them to assault into close combat. Interesting to see how that stacks with the sweep attacks,

That'd be awesome!

If I can read the rules well, we will badly nerfed...

Sweeping Strikes are possible only during Movement phase, and "Flat Out" will be an additional movement during Shooting Phase, so we will be capable of going 18" and sweep, and then "maybe" go flat out another 6" or so during Shooting phase. Then cover save dropped to a ridiculous 5+, so barges will be completely nerfed...don't know about chariot but I can't remember any rumor about it...

Our best tool is being taken away...so from 8th position codex we'll drop further down...sigh

Nix wrote:Our best tool is being taken away...so from 8th position codex we'll drop further down...sigh

BT, Tau, DA, Eldar, CSM, Orks, Demons, Tyranids, SoB and (arguably) SM would like a word with you about being in a bad position in the Meta...

While GK, BA, SW, IG, DE, SM still wouldn't need any word with us about it...and we are the Newest Codex, you knew that? The moment in which you should be strongest, because from now on everyone else will have a new, better than before codex while you will still keep yours??
IF (and I say IF) we would have gone skyhigh, then we would have had a better time enduring new OP codexes that will be released...with this 6th we'll become weaker and people like Eldars and such will become stronger...and then they'll have nex codexes to become even stronger...

If the ccb is a chariot, it'll still facerape everything it touches. Better yet, chariots can't be locked into cc, so you can charge in, smack stuff, sweep over the unit you were attacking, then charge something else

I'm sure the rules suggest that Chariot is in addition to any other vehicle type. So it coudl be a Fast Skimmer, Chariot.

in which case it has all the stuff a Fast Skimmer has already but you can charge into combat whiel still embarked.

We dont knwo exactly how fast Skimmer will work. they mgiht be getting more movement in the movement phase to counteract the fact that Flat out is now a shooting phase thing.

reposting for relevance-

Chariot: move normally for a vehicle of their type, if skimmer, can also make sweep attacks (3+/4+ depending on speed, chance to deal a melee attack for each attack in profile to a unit that you pass over during movement i.e. can do a melee attack in movement phase then disapear before retaliation)
- shot same as other vehicles
- rider cannot be individually targeted
- can declare a charge – rider is considered to be in base to base with all models in base to base with the chariot, can strike and be struck as such, cannot be locked in combat, can’t do a challenge
- +1 to armour saves of embarked character
- crew is considered part of the chariot, can’t attack, etc (basically ignored)
- Rider is fearless
- can cause “Hammer of wrath” ->impact hit but gets D6 attacks resolved at S6 AP- (as opposed to 1 at user S)

So it appears the CCBarge was the prototype, at least for sweep attacks. Add that to “Hammer of Wrath” and charge attacks, it looks like the CCBarge will continue to be the best conveyance for Overlords, if not the best vehicle IN THE GAME.

Best news? MSS Scarabs, and other special weapons such as Trazyn’s Empathic Obliterator will function while on the CCBarge!!!

awesome! now... Warscythe ap2?? please?

Warscythe is pretty much AP2, remember, it's not listed as a power weapon but a CCW that grants the user +2 S and ignores all armor saves.

We're good.

From the sounds of it, the Warscythe is going to have the rule "Armorbane".
... but can you imagine if it's also got the 5++ save like power weapons, AND is AP2?
It'll be the most broken piece of equipment since [insert GK wargear here].

Nix wrote:Then cover save dropped to a ridiculous 5+, so barges will be completely nerfed...don't know about chariot but I can't remember any rumor about it...

I believe skimmers get a "jink" cover save of 5+, which becomes 4+ when they move flat-out.

Chariot: +1 to armour saves of embarked character

So with weave and Phaser we'll get 1+/3++ That would be so funny if it was true (Only AP1 weapons could hurt em)

skoffs wrote:Best news? MSS Scarabs, and other special weapons such as Trazyn’s Empathic Obliterator will function while on the CCBarge!!!

Exactly!

3 sweep attacks + 3 base + 1 charge (I guess hammer of wraith would replace our charge bonus with something that allows saves so may or may not be worth it depending on what you face)
Oh and the best thing I want to do is give my Barge Lord Furious Charge from Zahndrek for STR8 AP2 attacks at I3 (Because it is silly and causes instant death vs a lot of things instead of a single wound)

King Pariah wrote:Warscythe is pretty much AP2, remember, it's not listed as a power weapon but a CCW that grants the user +2 S and ignores all armor saves.

We're good.

But its not AP2 for rolling on the Damage table, meaning they only kill vehicles on a 6. Thats the big attraction with AP2 now, it can kill vehicles besides Glancing them to death.

Grey Templar wrote:

King Pariah wrote:Warscythe is pretty much AP2, remember, it's not listed as a power weapon but a CCW that grants the user +2 S and ignores all armor saves.

We're good.

But its not AP2 for rolling on the Damage table, meaning they only kill vehicles on a 6. Thats the big attraction with AP2 now, it can kill vehicles besides Glancing them to death.

Oh well, I suppose between now and then we'll just mess vehicles up.

King Pariah wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

King Pariah wrote:Warscythe is pretty much AP2, remember, it's not listed as a power weapon but a CCW that grants the user +2 S and ignores all armor saves.

We're good.

But its not AP2 for rolling on the Damage table, meaning they only kill vehicles on a 6. Thats the big attraction with AP2 now, it can kill vehicles besides Glancing them to death.

Oh well, I suppose between now and then we'll just mess vehicles up.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, I'm pretty sure the WS will end up AP2.

Our best tool is being taken away...so from 8th position codex we'll drop further down...sigh

8th Position? Necrons are significantly higher up in the competitive food chain right now than that. I'd rate them 3-4 on their recent Tournament records.

Necrons are already a borderline top-tier codex pre-6th. They will be a top tier codex, if not the TOP codex, right after 6th's launch. I haven't read anything so far in the rumors that nerfs anything with Necrons,. We only get helped in varying degrees of broken.

Even wraiths got buffed. An already amazing unit is even better than before. Our anti-armor problems are not only solved, but amazing. Triarch Praetorians aren't total crap anymore. Increased army durability with wound allocation. On and on and on.

Anyone note the rule states a +1 to armor saves. How does that work with an Overlord that has SW.
What our 2+ save can get better? lols
And for those of you who fear Necrons being nerfed to all hell.

MSS are still amazing ...
Scarabs got even better with hull points
Wraiths/Destroyers/Jump infantry will supposedly get a I10 attack on the charge
Gaus vs Vehicles got better
Destroyers with Preferred Enemy got Better
Spyders with Repair Arm now restore D3 Hull points as tech priests.
Night Fight now is a set distance for sight and offers cover saves (While Night Vision totally ignores it)
Wound Allocation dosnt affect us nearly as much .... we only care about our Lords/ICs/Crypteks and Hurts our enemies.
New Rapid Fire Rules
Allies can fix alot of problems

Things to fear: New Psychic Powers, Warscythe I1, TEQ,

Am I the only one seeing:

- Power Weapons (Warscythe, Hyperphase Swords, Rod of the Covenant) not affecting Terminators anymore
- 5++ cover save for CCB, instead of 4++ (and it's a GREAT problem)
- 2d6 assault range, and we are not good assaulters (don't count Wraiths in, they are eaten alive by REAL assaulters!); and people can speed on veichles, move and then assault! If 5th was the "assault" edition, this one will be worst!
- Snapshot&Overwatch greatly help low-BS codex, where scaling down to BS1 is not that bad
- Melta has become better against our poor living-metal (Again!)
- I10 attack will be good...but, wait...Wraiths already had their toy to advantage in initiative, and while Pretorian will have a good "first strike"...their weapons will not even make a scratch into Terminators; and if your destroyers end up assaulting...

Only thing I could see being better for our CC are Hyperphase swords enanching the Shields Invulnerable save to 3++ (much needed, you know...terminators cost the same, have the same invulnerable save, better weapons in form of thunder hammers, can deep strike, take a freaking LR as a dedicated transport!)

- Power Weapons (Warscythe, Hyperphase Swords, Rod of the Covenant) not affecting Terminators anymore

The Warscythe is not a powerweapon. Sending Lychguad and Praetorians before was a bad move, why would you do it now? Our answer to Terminators is still the same-Volume of fire.

- 5++ cover save for CCB, instead of 4++ (and it's a GREAT problem)

Ignoring the Chariot buff, You can still move flat out during the Shooting phase, to gain the +1 to jink, making it a 4+
Don't forget the fact that his allows our slower vehicles like the Monolith, and Abarges to gain a 5+ cover save, Just for moving. That's pretty huge, in addition to their high AV.

-

2d6 assault range, and we are not good assaulters (don't count Wraiths in, they are eaten alive by REAL assaulters!); and people can speed on veichles, move and then assault! If 5th was the "assault" edition, this one will be worst!

You need to read up on the Disembark Rules, Only open topped vehicles can "speed" and have passengers disembark and assault. We have things like Over-watch, which will help a great deal with assaults. We are much better off in that respect.

- Snapshot&Overwatch greatly help low-BS codex, where scaling down to BS1 is not that bad

Overwatch is going to be a great help against assaulting armies.

- Melta has become better against our poor living-metal (Again!)

It's almost exactly the same chance of wrecking before, as a 5&6, plus the +1 open topped gave a 50% to wreck it. It's the same thing, at 50% now with the +2 for AP1 and the Open topped +1.

- I10 attack will be good...but, wait...Wraiths already had their toy to advantage in initiative, and while Pretorian will have a good "first strike"...their weapons will not even make a scratch into Terminators; and if your destroyers end up assaulting...

So, Wraiths got even better, with a free attack each, followed up by their regular attacks, and Praetorians may actually be usable now. I don't know why you keep comparing them to terminators, they were never made for fighting Terminators before, this hasn't changed.

Only thing I could see being better for our CC are Hyperphase swords enanching the Shields Invulnerable save to 3++ (much needed, you know...terminators cost the same, have the same invulnerable save, better weapons in form of thunder hammers, can deep strike, take a freaking LR as a dedicated transport!)

If this is the only thing you've seen so far, that you may think is good, then you seriously need to go re-read the news and rumors thread, because there are a lot of significant buffs to the army.

Nix wrote:Am I the only one seeing:

- Power Weapons (Warscythe, Hyperphase Swords, Rod of the Covenant) not affecting Terminators anymore
- 5++ cover save for CCB, instead of 4++ (and it's a GREAT problem)
- 2d6 assault range, and we are not good assaulters (don't count Wraiths in, they are eaten alive by REAL assaulters!); and people can speed on veichles, move and then assault! If 5th was the "assault" edition, this one will be worst!
- Snapshot&Overwatch greatly help low-BS codex, where scaling down to BS1 is not that bad
- Melta has become better against our poor living-metal (Again!)
- I10 attack will be good...but, wait...Wraiths already had their toy to advantage in initiative, and while Pretorian will have a good "first strike"...their weapons will not even make a scratch into Terminators; and if your destroyers end up assaulting...

Only thing I could see being better for our CC are Hyperphase swords enanching the Shields Invulnerable save to 3++ (much needed, you know...terminators cost the same, have the same invulnerable save, better weapons in form of thunder hammers, can deep strike, take a freaking LR as a dedicated transport!)

I think you're looking at some potentially minor negatives many of which are "game wide" changes.

- The Power Weapon situation is game-wide and has impact on a lot of armies. We still have Warscythes, which right now are looking to ignore armor and potentially have a 2d6 pen on vehicles. A lot of armies would kill for that. \
- Again the 5++ cover save is across the board, not Necron specific. Remember the CCB can still elect to place wounds on the Lord to prevent some damage.
- 2d6 assault range is again, game wide. Lots and lots of armies are impacted. Wraiths are amazing, move through cover, and can hold up against most of units. They got better in 6th.
- Snapshot and Overwatch helps us, even at BS 1. If it helps another army more then I'm fine with that. I assume you're talking about Orks, etc.
- If I recall right they get a "free" strike at I10 not a "first strike". So anytime a game gives me free strikes at a SUPER initiative on an already strong unit, I am gonna say that makes them better.

Your reply is very "glass half empty" and you seem to be "terminator obssessed". Terminators will still go down to volumes of fire and the Necron codex has shown even in 5th Edition that it has tools to deal with a 2+ save.

Necrons were good in 5th Edition and many rules have improved them in 6th. People can argue, but time will demonstrate this to be a truth, I am confident.

if not the best vehicle IN THE GAME.

Wow, take it easy. Make no mistake, the CCB has been nerfed in 6th. Being able to move only 12" in the movement phase is a huge change and let's face it that sweeping attack was the best part of the vehicle. About now being able to assault, you're now talking about a WS4 A3 Necron Lord assaulting enemies being somehow insanely scary. If you ever go that close to most armies you're inviting disaster to yourself. It's also just a skimmer with only 2 or 3 hull points and doesn't survive much firepower at all. Because you can only move 12" before you have to sweep something you can't safely sweep from cover to cover anymore.

I'm not saying it's useless by any means, but it's not even the best vehicle in the Necron codex in 6th edition, and not even close to being the best vehicle in the whole game. In the HQ choice department, I rather take a footslogging el-cheapo Overlord now, or Imotekh. There might still be something in the erratas this Saturday, so have to wait untill then to have a more educated opinion.

Therion wrote:

if not the best vehicle IN THE GAME.

Wow, take it easy. Make no mistake, the CCB has been nerfed in 6th. Being able to move only 12" in the movement phase is a huge change and let's face it that sweeping attack was the best part of the vehicle. About now being able to assault, you're now talking about a WS4 A3 Necron Lord assaulting enemies being somehow insanely scary. If you ever go that close to most armies you're inviting disaster to yourself. It's also just a skimmer with only 2 or 3 hull points and doesn't survive much firepower at all. Because you can only move 12" before you have to sweep something you can't safely sweep from cover to cover anymore.

I'm not saying it's useless by any means, but it's not even the best vehicle in the Necron codex in 6th edition, and not even close to being the best vehicle in the whole game. In the HQ choice department, I rather take a footslogging el-cheapo Overlord now, or Imotekh. There might still be something in the erratas this Saturday, so have to wait untill then to have a more educated opinion.

Well, I think depending on if Average squad size changes or not, the Chariot can still be pretty good in close combat. He becomes fearless, and has the impact hits to boot. He can choose to leave combat as well. It seems like a good way to prevent the Barge from getting shot out of the sky, if he comes to close to Metlas from a sweep.

We'll have to see of course, it sounds like it's pretty good on paper, at least at first glance.

Nix wrote:Am I the only one seeing:

- Power Weapons (Warscythe, Hyperphase Swords, Rod of the Covenant) not affecting Terminators anymore
- 5++ cover save for CCB, instead of 4++ (and it's a GREAT problem)
- 2d6 assault range, and we are not good assaulters (don't count Wraiths in, they are eaten alive by REAL assaulters!); and people can speed on veichles, move and then assault! If 5th was the "assault" edition, this one will be worst!
- Snapshot&Overwatch greatly help low-BS codex, where scaling down to BS1 is not that bad
- Melta has become better against our poor living-metal (Again!)
- I10 attack will be good...but, wait...Wraiths already had their toy to advantage in initiative, and while Pretorian will have a good "first strike"...their weapons will not even make a scratch into Terminators; and if your destroyers end up assaulting...

Only thing I could see being better for our CC are Hyperphase swords enanching the Shields Invulnerable save to 3++ (much needed, you know...terminators cost the same, have the same invulnerable save, better weapons in form of thunder hammers, can deep strike, take a freaking LR as a dedicated transport!)

- Also note that War Scythes aren't listed in the book as power weapons. They arent listed at all ... if we go off what our codex says we arent power weapons only that we ignore saves. ( We had one at our store)
- The cover save is still 4++ if you flat out but in general everyone got that nerf .... you can cry along side everyone else.
- Everyone got the random assault problem ... (My wraiths have owned vs Th/SS termies,Thunderwolf Cav, Deamons, GKs, Nids, ect)
- Vehicles got nerfed for everyone ... ours actually come out ahead compared to everyone else with the Arks at 4 HP and gaining a 5++ jinx save (Skimmers).
- And now you get to rapid fire when you are charged ... thats better then not rapid firing when you get charged. (Note you can still shoot before going into overwatch)

Overall we are changing as much as everyone else. Terminators are damn near invincible now deal with it ... Quantity over Quality. To boost that we have longer ranged shots and some stuff to slow them down. Ci tan are awesome now when properly loaded out. Its almost better to give SW to our lords then the Phase Shifter now ... so our squads can have a 2+ unbeatable bad arse that cant be targeted who has MSS awesomeness. Bring on the challenges ...

Yep, I understand that most of the changes are game-wide, and I didn't notice our weapons weren't "power weapons", maybe this will matter, maybe not, we will see.

I didn't understand that flat out improved our Jink to 4++, I'm a little more confident now...

I wonder with this snapshot thing, is it troops only? Because with Destroyers having preferred enemy (everything!) and getting assaulted but still hitting on 2s because of PE... Do you really want to assault that?

If the Warscythe stays as it is and gets marked down as Ap2.....we suddenly get S7+2D6...+1 on the damage table!!

Sweet, CCBs still rock.

Great Deceiver wrote:I wonder with this snapshot thing, is it troops only? Because with Destroyers having preferred enemy (everything!) and getting assaulted but still hitting on 2s because of PE... Do you really want to assault that?

Prefered enemy is either reroll hits in shooting/cc, or (I've heard) its reroll 1's to hit/shoot in cc.

Now, triarch stalkers just got far better. Twin link something so when it charges, twin linked overwatch. Combine that with tesla (as you need 6's to hit anyway)......... Tesla just got far better!

And Canoptek Spyders if you take that beamer.