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Forgive me if this is already a full thread in it's own right - I made a cursory look through the list to see if it was and didn't see it.

So with 6th Ed. now more or less open knowledge (though without having gone through the true crucible of thousands of games across the world where people will TRULY find out what rules are broken and which aren't that bad), I want to know how it should affect my main army, NECRONS [NOTE: I have been trying to keep up with the 190-odd page rumor thread, but it grows by 10 pages every several hours that I have the chance to check. I can't keep up ]

In general I am interested in what people who kno more than me, and have been following the developments more closely (in relation to the 'Crons) think about how this changes things for the ANCIENT-SPACE-MUMMY-ROBOTS-FROM-SPACE. A couple of specific points which interest me:

1.) Viability of the "Scarab Farm" build? I've built up a large amount of Scarab bases, and Canoptek Spyders, and am wondering if this is still a good tactic.

2.) Flyers good? Bad? Somewhere in-between? I can't make heads or tails of what people are saying in the rumors thread about flyers. Are they the new awesome? Are they worthless points sinks? Should I bother buying the new Necron flyer hybrid kit? (I think I will anyway, cause I like it, but should I bother fielding it?) Is the transport or the gunship version more worthwhile?

3.) What units/tactics/wargear that was not so good before 6th are now worth taking a second look at? Monolith? Destroyers?

4.) Conversely, what units/tactics/wargear that was must-have before 6th are now NOT worth taking at all?

5.) Any other stray thoughts and comments

And, of course, if anyone has already had the chance to play a proper games with their 'Crons under the new ruleset, that would be fabulous information to hear!

Thanks Dakka!

-C6

I'll throw in my two cents.
scarabs get a better assault range, but overwatch is going to kill a base or two. I say still viable (unless everyone stops taking their tanks)

Necron scythes? If they become fliers they are going to be really hard to hit. And no worries about killing the transported unit when the scythe gets shot down thanks to our special rule! I say go for it

Triarch praetorians, so many points, so useless, but now they might do something! Jump infantry get a free I10 attack on the charge. We won't attack last for once!

sempiternal weave: now in cc only thing that can get past your 2+ armor will be powerfists or THs, unstoppable Overlord!

Tanks might be easier to kill. Hull pts.
This is both good and bad. Our gauss weapons = awesome, but our tanks might be easier to kill

other comments: start with an open mind. Everything is going to change, so you need to be ready to change your game.

Moronic Nonsense wrote:I'll throw in my two cents.
scarabs get a better assault range, but overwatch is going to kill a base or two. I say still viable (unless everyone stops taking their tanks)

Necron scythes? If they become fliers they are going to be really hard to hit. And no worries about killing the transported unit when the scythe gets shot down thanks to our special rule! I say go for it

Triarch praetorians, so many points, so useless, but now they might do something! Jump infantry get a free I10 attack on the charge. We won't attack last for once!

sempiternal weave: now in cc only thing that can get past your 2+ armor will be powerfists or THs, unstoppable Overlord!

Tanks might be easier to kill. Hull pts.
This is both good and bad. Our gauss weapons = awesome, but our tanks might be easier to kill

other comments: start with an open mind. Everything is going to change, so you need to be ready to change your game.

Praetorians really are going to shine with that I10 strike when they have the Voidblades and pistol. I'd steer clear of the Rod of the Covenant still. Though with Wraiths getting even beefier in this edition, I still see these guys taking a back seat.

Like you'd run a DLord with Rez Orb and Warscythe, and Praetorians armed with Pistols/Blades (so that you get the 4+ RP). These guys would excel at killing vehicles and MCs, but as far as being anti-troop and "best all around", Wraiths are still the go to.

Just really frustrating they make a unit like Praetorians, then make Wraiths. They are similiar in a lot of ways, but Wraiths are just simply better assault units and cost less. Praetorians could have been amazing if their INIT was just higher.

Scarabs take a bit of a hit as they no longer have stealth (it was removed from the Swarms USR). Still, won't be hard to get them cover, and you can use nightfighting to improve that cover...and if you really still need them to have stealth, you can always take Zandrekh.

With the rulebook in hand, I've been able to do a cursory read through, and here are some of my thoughts.

Keep in mind, any of this could change, when we get our updated FAQS

-Our flyers are going to be a big deal. They are going to be very hard to take down, and the Destructor now functions as both an Anti-infantry weapon and a very good Anti-tank weapon, thanks to the Hull point rules, and the removal of the -1 for AP - Weapons. I suspect we'll see them zooming all the time. Nightscythes also don't have to worry about their cargo dying, thanks to their special rule.

-Warscythes are AP2, so they will now be doing +1 on the Vehicle Damage chart.

-Catacomb Command Barges got a bit of a nerf, since you can't move over 12' in the movement phase. However, if they get the Chariot rule, it will be fairly evened out.

-With Gauss fire being able to remove a Hull point on a 6, regardless of the vehicles armor, and the buff to preferred enemy in shooting, I think we'll be seeing a lot less scarabs, and more Destroyers. They will be dual-purpose Anti-tank and Anti-infantry. With the Buff to Rapidfire weapons, I think we'll be seeing more Gauss Immortals as well.

-Wraiths and Praetorians got a small buff, with the Hammer of Wrath. Keep in mind, it's AP- and with your unmodified strength. I'm not sure if rending will affect this or not. Power weapons do not, for sure.

-Ghost Arks, Doomsday Arks, and Monoliths have 4 Hull points, everything else has 3. With the Blast weapon rules now, for vehicles, Doomsday Arks can work as Anti-tank weapons. However, I honestly think we'll be seeing mostly 2-3 Doomscythes as the Heavy support choice now.

-Monolith can fire it's Particle whip, and Snap fire the Arrays.

-Overlords are going to be much tougher in Close combat, the Weave is now a must take. There are very few things a Decked-out overlord is going to fear, mainly TH/SS termies.

-Eldritch Lances, got better, with the AP2 +1, Voltaic Staves got MUCH better, with the 4 shot Haywire effect.

-All of our skimmers now will get a jink (5+) cover save, just for moving.

-New Nightfighting rules, I believe benefit us a lot. It's a bit hard to tell right now of course. Acute sense also, no longer affects that units Night-fighting vision, it's just for outflanking now.


The Downsides

-Loosing combat, and morale remains the same, it will still be our Achilles heel.

-Our vehicles (Except flyers) Are a lot easier to hit in Melee combat. With a lot of our weapons being 24' this is something to keep in mind.

-Our open topped vehicles still have the +1 damage on the Pen chart.

-Hull points are a mixed bag. On the brightside, it's pretty hard to even glance AV13, so we should be alright in that department. However, we are a lot more vulnerable to AP2 Lances, than we were before.

-2D6 Charge distance, is going to be interesting. Overwatch will help a great deal in this regard. A unit may only overwatch once each turn, it's not one overwatch per turn. Will help thin down Orks and what not.

-Lychguard are really in a bad spot now. They didn't seem to gain any buffs. Even Praetorians got a little love.

-C'tan got some of the buffs that MCs did, however, it still suffers from it's low Base armor save.


Here are some things I think we'll be seeing.

-Less Scarabs & more Destroyers
-Veiling Crypteks, with rapidfire warriors, and likely a Voltaic Stave cryptek
-Flyers, everywhere
-Two Solar pulses will still be in almost every list
-Praetorians with RoC, may actually see a little use now.

Sasori wrote:With the rulebook in hand, I've been able to do a cursory read through, and here are some of my thoughts.

<snip>

-Catacomb Command Barges got a bit of a nerf, since you can't move over 12' in the movement phase. However, if they get the Chariot rule, it will be fairly evened out.

I don't have my copy of the rulebook (had it delivered to the local GW shop, so I get to wait....) but, don't fast skimmers get 18" flat out, (sweeping attacks here) -- and then during shooting phase -- turbo boost for another 12" to get outta dodge? (30" total movement).

Sasori wrote:

-All of our skimmers now will get a jink (5+) cover save, just for moving.

Monoliths are skimmers, so they get Jink. AV 14 + Jink + Living metal makes them far more durable than Land Raiders!
+ Overwatch with the Door to Kansas on units that charge the Monolith

Also:

Spyders are MC's so are AP2 in combat + smash + Hammer of Wrath
I am also wondering with the huge boost to psychic powers (some of those look wicked) whether gloom prisms are going to be helpful...

One huge bonus for scarabs and wraiths is that you don't take fearless saves anymore. At least thats what i read online and hope to be true, feel free to confirm this if anyone happens to know for sure.

Any buffs to Triarch Stalkers in CC?

The lack of a ++ save for a Destroyer Lord is a tad less bad now that a +2 save is really good. I can see a few of them getting more popular. Already mentioned in several posts now, but warscythes are just too awesome now

I don't have my copy of the rulebook (had it delivered to the local GW shop, so I get to wait....) but, don't fast skimmers get 18" flat out, (sweeping attacks here) -- and then during shooting phase -- turbo boost for another 12" to get outta dodge? (30" total movement).

No, not as far as I can tell. The Maximum you can move in the Movement phase on anything (Except flyers and swooping MCs) is 12'. Skimmers can move another 12' in the shooting phase (Flat out) and Fast skimmers may flat out up to 18' in the Shooting phase.

Wow, thanks for the detailed replies and ideas guys! Looks like 6th Edition, insofar as we understand it at this point, will not change my Necron army dramatically. Probably the only changes I'll make are:

-Somewhat fewer Scarabs/Spyders spawning Scarabs
-Definitely including a transport Flyer
-Probably including at least one of the Heavy Support Flyer
-Definitely giving Lord/Overlord Sempiternal Weave

Things in my army which won't change much, but sound like will be more competitive than before:

-Units of Warriors (I have about 20-30)
-Units of Gauss Immortals
-A bunch of Crypteks. Going to have to look closer at gear loadouts, but sounds like some new nastiness is available there. I'd already planned on including a number of these guys, just hadn't decided how to equip them yet.
-Wraiths

Is the Triarch Stalker nerfed at all by all these new vehicle rule changes? I had hoped to fit at least one into my list, because I like the model.

And what about Tomb Blades? I haven't read a single mention of them anywhere, but I originally hadn't planned to field them, so I'm not that familiar with their rules, and how the changes will affect them on the tabletop.

Thanks again!

-C6

catharsix wrote:Wow, thanks for the detailed replies and ideas guys! Looks like 6th Edition, insofar as we understand it at this point, will not change my Necron army dramatically. Probably the only changes I'll make are:

-Somewhat fewer Scarabs/Spyders spawning Scarabs
-Definitely including a transport Flyer
-Probably including at least one of the Heavy Support Flyer
-Definitely giving Lord/Overlord Sempiternal Weave

Things in my army which won't change much, but sound like will be more competitive than before:

-Units of Warriors (I have about 20-30)
-Units of Gauss Immortals
-A bunch of Crypteks. Going to have to look closer at gear loadouts, but sounds like some new nastiness is available there. I'd already planned on including a number of these guys, just hadn't decided how to equip them yet.
-Wraiths

Is the Triarch Stalker nerfed at all by all these new vehicle rule changes? I had hoped to fit at least one into my list, because I like the model.

And what about Tomb Blades? I haven't read a single mention of them anywhere, but I originally hadn't planned to field them, so I'm not that familiar with their rules, and how the changes will affect them on the tabletop.

Thanks again!

-C6

Tomblades are going to suffer from the same problem they had in 5th, the other options are just better. They aren't bad, the other options are just better. a small group of 5 with Gauss blasters, can strip some hullpoints pretty quickly. Destroyers are better though, in my opinion, as they can function as Anti-tank and Anti-Infantry. I'll probably be taking 1-2 squads of Destroyers now.

The Triarch Stalker is really in the same position it was in before. Didn't really get buffed or nerfed.

A really solid anti-tank unit, will be a veiling group of Warriors (10) With a Stormtek. Statistically, this should kill any tank in the game, by means of stripping Hull points. As long as you are within 12'

I think that Ghost Arks got better simply because they can move 12" and the Warriors inside can still shoot. That brings back a lot of flexiblity that they were missing. Jink just makes that even better...

Deathmarks can now move and shoot, and on top of that they get to allocate their wounds on 6's to hit.

Sasori you mention warscythes are ap2, what page is that on?

SiegeCommander wrote:Deathmarks can now move and shoot, and on top of that they get to allocate their wounds on 6's to hit.

Sasori you mention warscythes are ap2, what page is that on?

They ignore armorsaves, as mentioned in our Codex. Which means, they Are AP2, as they are not power weapons, and follow their own special rules.

EDIT: I'm going to go ahead and say, this is a bit of an assumption on my part. I doubt however, that it would be given an AP value of less than two, as it ignores armor saves. Unless they just don't want it to get that +1 on the vehicle damage chart.

It seems Warscyth LG got a buff over Sword and Board LG, as a strong anti term unit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Scarabs completely ignore cover now right? Seems pretty awesome.

Can you clarify the Jump Infantry re-roll on the charge? I've seen the chart, which seems to imply 12" move +2d6" w/re-roll assault, but I've seen some one claim that they can't get the 12" move AND the re-roll on the assault, one or the other (on foot or using packs).

Also, don't jetbikes get an automatic 5+, 4+ while turbo CS? With Shadowlooms (and night fighting) this seems to be the Tomb Blades advantage over Destroyers, more maneuverability and survivability. Destroyers are very solid now though, no question.

With pre-measuring and the changes to Night Fighting, 2 SPs + 3x3HDs is gonna be pretty nasty (T5, 3+ cover save, RP). Jump around at 35" of your target and lay waist to some face. Same here for Heavy Gauss Stalkers, Doomsday Arks, etc.

Scythes Spam+Orikan is going to rape face. Might be the most difficult to counter build in the dex now.

Think it will be possible for Nemesor to give acute senses to an out flanking group of Flayed Ones? Also, is it true that IC's can attach to outflankers now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FAQ is out, Rod of covenant: +1 Strength, AP2, Unwiedly


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spyders can repair hull points!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Warscthes are AP 1! And Invasion Beams...HO LEE CHIT!

Scythes Spam+Orikan is going to rape face. Might be the most difficult to counter build in the dex now.

INVASION BEAMS!

Four or five Stormteks in a court. Attach to Warrior squads. Mount in Night Scythes. Deploy on turn two basically on top of the enemy. Facemelt.

Night Scythe is just so ridiculously good it's unreal. I still can't believe it. Necrons -- The new mobility and alpha strike gods of Warhammer 40K.

LOL Everyone's units got absolutely shackled to a maximum 12" of ground gained in 6th via transports...

Except Necrons....30".

Hahaha!

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:LOL Everyone's units got absolutely shackled to a maximum 12" of ground gained in 6th via transports...

Except Necrons....30".

Hahaha!

You mean 42" if the unit doesn't care that it can only snap fire.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Warscthes are AP 1!

Yea, that surpsised me a bit!

Warscythes are REALLY good now!

Sasori wrote:

I don't have my copy of the rulebook (had it delivered to the local GW shop, so I get to wait....) but, don't fast skimmers get 18" flat out, (sweeping attacks here) -- and then during shooting phase -- turbo boost for another 12" to get outta dodge? (30" total movement).

No, not as far as I can tell. The Maximum you can move in the Movement phase on anything (Except flyers and swooping MCs) is 12'. Skimmers can move another 12' in the shooting phase (Flat out) and Fast skimmers may flat out up to 18' in the Shooting phase.

Ah so I got numbers mixed up in reverse order. I'll be picking my copy up in about 3 hours

So barge is a fast skimmer -- still we can flat out afterwards to clear the scene. Total move is still 30"

Warscythes are downright kicking ass. Average pen of 14 and then get +2 (!!!) on the damage chart.

Woop woop.

Barges are chariots too (FAQ). They can charge. And improve the armour save of the rider by 1. Plus D6 S6 attacks from the chariot in close combat.

Overlords in barges can kill units now too.

Does this give the overlord in the barge a 100% save in CC?

DexKivuli wrote:Barges are chariots too (FAQ). They can charge. And improve the armour save of the rider by 1. Plus D6 S6 attacks from the chariot in close combat.

Overlords in barges can kill units now too.

Does this give the overlord in the barge a 100% save in CC?

No because the rulebook says saves go from 2 to 6.

Now here is the thing, will MSS go off in CC on a Barge? Anyway it is definitely time to check out that new FAQ!

Scarabs get scarier vs vehicles (if they move they hit on 3's instead of 4's I believe) and they get move through cover + fleet from beasties along with a movement of 12" instead of 6" before (That 6" movement sucked when you roll 1's for running) And that means they can get a 30" threat range! (12" move + 6" run + 2D6 charge (12") = 30")

Obryon is actually viable now with his 2+ save now ignoring most power weapons. I can see him in a challenge vs another character and getting about 10 attacks in (3 base + 1 charge + 6 from special rule) all ignoring armor and STR 7 with that lovely WS6!

The Doomsday ark got a lot more powerful with the ability to inflict full damage even when the center of the blast isn't over the hull, of course gauss and tesla are a lot more powerful vs vehicles (Tesla Destructor can easily glance things to death

I'll be using deathmarks and pretorians more then I previously did. The ability to single out a model on 6's is so nice and that I10 hit on the charge (I believe we get rending and etropic with that too) can do some damage before we take all those darn hits.

Thinking about making a 750 "hop around" list that mainly consists of 2 Gauss Immortal squads, teleporting around with a veil and a Voltaic staff thus being effective both versus infantry (S5 Rapid Fire shots + 8'' Flame template) and mech (GAUSS GAUSS GAUSS pew pew).

Might be fun to play.

Huge problem with running all flyer lists:

6th edition BRB pg 122 wrote:

If one player concedes the battle, or his army is wiped out, the game ends and a crushing victory goes to his opponent. Likewise, if at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins.

FAQ is out.

The bad news: War scythes are not AP2.

The good news: War scythes are AP1

The bad news: You modeled your triarch praetorians wrong.

The good news. Rod of the covenant is now S5 AP2 range 6 shooting, and S6 AP2 in CC. Yea that's right it's also a power ax now.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=600005&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&multiPageMode=true&start=

Maelstrom808 wrote:Huge problem with running all flyer lists:

6th edition BRB pg 122 wrote:

If one player concedes the battle, or his army is wiped out, the game ends and a crushing victory goes to his opponent. Likewise, if at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins.

Park a squad of 5 Warriors somewhere at the edge

I was not expecting the kind of love we got in the FAQ!