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TBD wrote:Is the Twin Linked Heavy Gauss Cannon now perhaps worth it over the Heat Ray on the Triarch Stalker?

I am building on and have a bit of a dilemma which one to put on.

Depends on your playing style. I like the TL heavy gauss because I keep Stalkers back and try not to get them ahead of my firing line, but the AP1 melta is devastating and d3 auto hits from the flamer is really nice. Magnetize and get both!

Not to mention range

The 36" vs 24" is quite nice.

It is nice, however I have found that 42 vrs 30 is not as much of a difference(factor in 6 inch movement to threat ranges, trust me it makes a big difference when looking at weapons)

Also most of the time I have found either my opponent is closing on me, or I am closing on them so that extra 12 inches doesnt come up as much.

Also just being able to hit twice is such a huge thing, you have no idea how nice that is.

Also the alternate firing mode.

If they were the same points I would say it is a dilemma. But with most of my lists I find myself trying to fight to make even 5 points available and its just not worth it for the +15.(I also run two so its +30 for me)

Last game I played I had to think about it also.

I ended up going MM.

Great Deceiver wrote:

Sasori wrote:
Well, with Preferred enemy being granted by the Destroyer Lord, and a Res Orb, they shoot up significantly in effectiveness. I wouldn't take them without one. You go from missing 1/3rd of the time, to pretty much missing 1/6th with your AP2 shots, and you only fail to wound 1/6th of the time in Melee, and Shooting. It's really really nice. The Dlord will also have almost everything bounce off of him, if you have him in the front. Their Melee isn't super effective, since they only have two attacks on the Charge, but between their shooting, and the Destroyer lord, they will chew through just about anything. I'd still stay away from TH/SS Termies, but most other elite squads, you should be able to take out without to much trouble.

They are a lot more killy than Wraiths, but Wraiths are going to be the better choice if you don't want to bring a Destroyer Lord with them. I'd say Wraiths are also a Tad more survivable, with their 3++, but TP are T5, with a 4+ RP, so it ends up being fairly close, Mathwise.

I think Wraiths will still be the better option. The I dropping coils, which you get to determine every fight phase if it's applied first or last is awesome, the 3++, S6 rending, etc. I guess Praetorians aren't total junk now. Also, with outflank now applied to attached squad members, stick a blob of 20 Flayed Ones with a MSS, Res orb, and warscythe lord and we have a pretty excellent tarpit unit.

Wraiths are still good now, no doubt they got better in fact, but the line is a lot more blurry than before, in regards to what is "better." TPs will do much better against most things with a 2+ save, such as Sanguinary guard, that we may be seeing more of, where the Wraiths would take a while to whittle them down. They also don't compete for the same slot, which is nice.

Keep in mind, you cannot attach Royal Court members, to Flayed ones, so it would have to be an Overlord.

Hm....actually thinking about having 1 unit of Wraiths less and taking a squad of TP instead for an all-comers list. Then again, this would force me to also bring a Night Scythe.Or Veiltek.

You don't want your TP to walk.

How has no one mentioned deathmarks in a night scythe yet?

Put 2 despairteks from 2 courts with them, no need for veil. When the scythe enters, zoom 24", deploy 6" and laugh hysterically. 2 of 3 table deployments you will be in range of the enemy for flamers. Otherwise, cruise and jink, and drop them perfectly accruately on top of the deathstar unit you want to disappear next turn.

Sigvatr wrote:Hm....actually thinking about having 1 unit of Wraiths less and taking a squad of TP instead for an all-comers list. Then again, this would force me to also bring a Night Scythe.Or Veiltek.

You don't want your TP to walk.

They are Jump infantry, they move just as fast as Wraiths. Only take TPs if you are Taking a kitted out Dlord with them, though.

I forgot about the RC lords.

i think i'll give my c'tan shard a whirl, since they can Wrath and challenge to fish out threats

6th didn't make them less expensive, but it sure did make them more fun!

Also I am finding that now that night fight isnt as special the second court(and mandatory pulse) is also not as big a deal

Still not sure on allies or not. My two other armies are death guard and orks. Really tough call cause I am seeing myself dropping at least 500 points on either side and it really takes a chunk of your forces.

The changes to the Command Barge are neat but I still don't think they are that good. Nothing I can find in the rules prevents the enemy for attacking the Chariot in CC. Against any infantry with Krak grenades this could be a risky proposition, as the chariot is likely to get blown up before the lord even gets to swing.

My thoughts: (hopefully I'm not too late to this party)

Warriors: Silver Tide is back! Thanks to the effect of Gauss on Hull Points, a 20-strong Warrior squad can really bring some hurt, especially with the inclusion of Snap Fire and Defensive Fire.

Immortals: I still think Tesla is where these guys belong, so I don't see anything changing for them. I think that Snap Fire and Defensive Fire really does make Tesla king against everything without an AV rating.

Deathmarks: Somehow, they became even more amazing than they were before. Being able to RF at 24" is absolutely lethal. But I still think the Death & Despair combo is their wheelhouse.

Triarch Praetorian: I agree with Sasori here. These guys with a fully-kitted D.Lord are actually worth their points now.

Lychguard: I just don't see these guys getting much use. They can't do anything that someone else in the codex can't do better.

Flayed Ones: I maintain my stance that they are the worst unit in the codex.

C'Tan: They really didn't lose anything, or gain anything other than the Smash Attack. But they still will drop to volume of fire too easy.

Destroyers: These guys are absolutely incredible now that PE works in shooting, and the gauss can strip a hull point. They've got tons of utility, are extremely mobile, and pose a threat to generally everything.

Heavy Destroyers: I thought they were pretty great before they gained PE for their shooting.

Tomb Blades: I still like the idea of taking Particle Beamers with these guys, and they are pretty cheap. But again, they are still competing with much, much better units for the same slot.

Wraiths: Okay, so Whip Coils just don't care what kind of Initiative buffs the enemy gets, and the Wraiths now get a Hammer of Wrath attack, at Str 6. Even if Rending doesn't apply, that's still a free attack the Wraiths get, and it's not like they weren't freakin' awesome to begin with.

Scarabs: No longer taking additional fearless wounds, and their increased speed now makes Scarabs even more offensive. Additionally, it only takes 4 to mathematically wreck a Land Raider. However, defensive fire from Flamestorm cannons will end these guys in a hurry now.

Monolith: Nothing frustrates me more than the Monolith. It just isn't good, and it really should be. I know that AV 14 is nothing to sneeze at, and I know that it can Snap Fire after firing its Particle Whip, but not being able to use the Eternity Gate as a Defensive/Snap Fire really sucks. Living Metal really takes a hit as well, considering every pen hit removes a Hull Point irrespective of Living Metal. And still no Deep Strike protection. Nobody will ever use the Monolith when compared to...

Doom Scythe: This thing is a monster. There is no other way to describe it. The TL Tesla Destructor is one of the best AA guns out there right now, and it can be Snap Fired. And the Death Ray, well, we've always known how awesome it was. Shame it can't be Snap Fired, but that would have been absolutely broken.

Night Scythe: This is pretty much the best transport in the game right now. It takes a 6 to hit it without the Skyfire ability, It can move its cargo 24" and still disembark, its demise doesn't kill its cargo, and it's got that wonderful TL Tesla Destructor. And it's only 100 points. That really is just obscene.

Doomsday Ark: Now that blasts always hit at full-strength, this is a pretty great weapon for making craters where your opponent's models used to be, especially combined with the new rules for Night Fighting to protect it. I can see this thing wrecking a lot of parking lots on the other end of the table.

Ghost Ark: I still don't like these, but now that Silver Tide is viable, maybe it'll have some benefit.

Tomb Spyders: They gained the Smash rule for MCs, and really lost nothing. Same as before.


I'll give some thoughts to HQs & Crypteks next time.

Sasori wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Hm....actually thinking about having 1 unit of Wraiths less and taking a squad of TP instead for an all-comers list. Then again, this would force me to also bring a Night Scythe.Or Veiltek.

You don't want your TP to walk.

They are Jump infantry, they move just as fast as Wraiths. Only take TPs if you are Taking a kitted out Dlord with them, though.

Wraiths have a 3++ compared to the TP's 3+, making them more resilent to shooting.

Sigvatr wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Hm....actually thinking about having 1 unit of Wraiths less and taking a squad of TP instead for an all-comers list. Then again, this would force me to also bring a Night Scythe.Or Veiltek.

You don't want your TP to walk.

They are Jump infantry, they move just as fast as Wraiths. Only take TPs if you are Taking a kitted out Dlord with them, though.

Wraiths have a 3++ compared to the TP's 3+, making them more resilent to shooting.

Well, it makes them resilient to some shooting. Keep in mind, that with a Dlord out in front, Taking all those non AP1-2 hits, it can take a long time to get through his 2+. ShadarLogoth has done the math on this before, and it was a lot closer than it appears at first.

Well, it makes them resilient to some shooting. Keep in mind, that with a Dlord out in front, Taking all those non AP1-2 hits, it can take a long time to get through his 2+. ShadarLogoth has done the math on this before, and it was a lot closer than it appears at first.

Yeah I haven't sat down and worked it all out with the cover save differences, but intuitively anytime TPs would get a 5+ cover, Wraiths will probably be more resilient against the the AP 3 or lower stuff, 4+ cover will keep them pretty close (as that was the assumption in 5th), and 3+ cover (>24" Night Fighting for instance) will make the TP's the clear winners, particularly with a Res Orb. T5, 3+ cover save, 4+ RP is pretty damn nasty. Can't gtg for a 2+ though, sorry Cylon Police Force .

Ghost ark with 5 warriors and 2 stormteks has been lovely for me. 3-4 of those on the board with 12" move + 12" flat out. Next turn rapid fire and put down 10 gauss flayer shots and 8 S5 haywire shots per unit (bonus points for getting the rapid fires off from your gauss flayer arrays on the GA as well). You are pretty much killing a vehicle per unit (and then some with squadrons) or tossing down a nice mass of anti-infantry fire. Slip the two overlords into one of the GAs and add a couple of lightning fields to the crypteks in there. Good times

My friend is starting to dread facing my necrons in 6th, especially as he had a hard time beating them in 5th (when he won against them, which was once)

I played my first game last night and am amazed at how good Necrons have become. I just threw a bunch of units together to try as many as possible.

Wraiths with a Dlord are just plain power. Enough said.

Annihilation Barges are basically guaranteed to wreck one transport per turn.

Scythes are fun and deadly - either type is awesome.

I am in love with Immortals with Gauss and Destroyers now. The versatility and power that these guys have is amazing.

The main problem I faced was that every individual unit made its points back so quickly that no one particular unit was able to shine because everything my opponent fielded was gone.....

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Well, it makes them resilient to some shooting. Keep in mind, that with a Dlord out in front, Taking all those non AP1-2 hits, it can take a long time to get through his 2+. ShadarLogoth has done the math on this before, and it was a lot closer than it appears at first.

Yeah I haven't sat down and worked it all out with the cover save differences, but intuitively anytime TPs would get a 5+ cover, Wraiths will probably be more resilient against the the AP 3 or lower stuff, 4+ cover will keep them pretty close (as that was the assumption in 5th), and 3+ cover (>24" Night Fighting for instance) will make the TP's the clear winners, particularly with a Res Orb. T5, 3+ cover save, 4+ RP is pretty damn nasty. Can't gtg for a 2+ though, sorry Cylon Police Force .

Question... how (if at all) does the Wraith's ability to ignore terrain play into your evaluations? I mean... being able to travel through a wall to ambush a unit is pretty darn good!

Anpu-adom wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Well, it makes them resilient to some shooting. Keep in mind, that with a Dlord out in front, Taking all those non AP1-2 hits, it can take a long time to get through his 2+. ShadarLogoth has done the math on this before, and it was a lot closer than it appears at first.

Yeah I haven't sat down and worked it all out with the cover save differences, but intuitively anytime TPs would get a 5+ cover, Wraiths will probably be more resilient against the the AP 3 or lower stuff, 4+ cover will keep them pretty close (as that was the assumption in 5th), and 3+ cover (>24" Night Fighting for instance) will make the TP's the clear winners, particularly with a Res Orb. T5, 3+ cover save, 4+ RP is pretty damn nasty. Can't gtg for a 2+ though, sorry Cylon Police Force .

Question... how (if at all) does the Wraith's ability to ignore terrain play into your evaluations? I mean... being able to travel through a wall to ambush a unit is pretty darn good!

Absolutely. It's really a die to bullets when in LOS comparison. Now the TP's can fly over the wall as well, but you're absolutely right, no one can take advantage of LOS blocking impassible terrain quite like Wraiths.

So what is considered Unique Wargear Options to the Crypteks? Cause the way it is written in the book it seems like you can only have 1 of each type of Cryptek per Court, but I've seen talk of multiple Storm or Destruction Teks across this forum.

Any help would be appreciated!

rybackstun wrote:So what is considered Unique Wargear Options to the Crypteks? Cause the way it is written in the book it seems like you can only have 1 of each type of Cryptek per Court, but I've seen talk of multiple Storm or Destruction Teks across this forum.

Any help would be appreciated!

Only the stuff you pay for is unique wargear. So, for example, you could have 5 Destroteks, but only one of them could have the Solar Pulse or 18" Moral check thingy whose name escapes me. To clarify, two different guys could each have one, or one guy could have both.

Now if you have 2 Overlords, and 2 Courts, each court can take a unique once.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Well, it makes them resilient to some shooting. Keep in mind, that with a Dlord out in front, Taking all those non AP1-2 hits, it can take a long time to get through his 2+. ShadarLogoth has done the math on this before, and it was a lot closer than it appears at first.

Yeah I haven't sat down and worked it all out with the cover save differences, but intuitively anytime TPs would get a 5+ cover, Wraiths will probably be more resilient against the the AP 3 or lower stuff, 4+ cover will keep them pretty close (as that was the assumption in 5th), and 3+ cover (>24" Night Fighting for instance) will make the TP's the clear winners, particularly with a Res Orb. T5, 3+ cover save, 4+ RP is pretty damn nasty. Can't gtg for a 2+ though, sorry Cylon Police Force .

Question... how (if at all) does the Wraith's ability to ignore terrain play into your evaluations? I mean... being able to travel through a wall to ambush a unit is pretty darn good!

Absolutely. It's really a die to bullets when in LOS comparison. Now the TP's can fly over the wall as well, but you're absolutely right, no one can take advantage of LOS blocking impassible terrain quite like Wraiths.

Through the wall. Not over it.

Something I wanted to check - Hyperphase Swords are classed as 'Power Weapons'. Given the new rules for power weapons, does this mean we can shenanigan them as Power Axes? I'm not entirely up on how it works.

Drachii wrote:Something I wanted to check - Hyperphase Swords are classed as 'Power Weapons'. Given the new rules for power weapons, does this mean we can shenanigan them as Power Axes? I'm not entirely up on how it works.

Hyperphase Swords are really Power Axes? Well, it's said that rules-lawyering and farting have a lot in common. If you have to push too hard then it's probably crap.

azazel the cat wrote:However, defensive fire from Flamestorm cannons will end these guys in a hurry now.

Vehicles can't Overwatch... is that what you are referring to?

Remember you cant assault units you cant see so wraiths cant assault through walls. Also remember that its if you pass through difficult terrain you take the test, not if you are slowed by it. Wraiths don't ignore terrain(c'tan do) however they are not slowed by it.

Anpu-adom wrote:

Drachii wrote:Something I wanted to check - Hyperphase Swords are classed as 'Power Weapons'. Given the new rules for power weapons, does this mean we can shenanigan them as Power Axes? I'm not entirely up on how it works.

Hyperphase Swords are really Power Axes? Well, it's said that rules-lawyering and farting have a lot in common. If you have to push too hard then it's probably crap.

Thank you for your entirely unhelpful comment. Given that people are swapping out left right and centre for Power Axes where previously it was always Swords because they did pretty much the same thing, I am unsurprisingly interested in seeing if it can work for Lychguard. And hey, look, a hyperphase axe! Oh dear, I think I just overloaded my brain with the power of imagination. Woops. I think it'd be quite fun to model, too.