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I am also interested in running a pure infantry Guard army.

Can you make a decent using using just:
-Company Commanders
-Primaris Psykers
-Command Squads
-Infantry Squads
-Special Weapon Squads
-Heavy Weapon Squads

And what regiment would be the best to run them as?

 greatbigtree wrote:
I think that Sentinels in cover with something like a Lascannon are gold. Area denial, no decay due to damage, with a threatening weapon that you don't want to ignore, but you also don't want to take shots away from Russes or other tanks. Puts the opponent in a bit of a bind, regarding targeting.

If they get cheaper, and stay just as they are, I'd be tickled pink. I already use them to cheaply fill FA slots. I'd use more than 3, if I owned more.

Why a lascannon though? A scout sentinel with a heavy flamer is 52pts. An armoured sentinel with a plasma cannon is 55pts. For list simplification, they are the best choice, AND a good plasma platform that's cheap is harder to come by now. For 15pts, you get:

1d3 STR7 AP-3 DMG1 36". You won't want to gets hot and kill your models (unless you're cadian and didn't move), but with a full slot you can shoot 3-9 shots of AP-3 every turn. By turn three, you are almost guaranteed to have got your points back on a 3 strong unit, even if all you shot at was space marine scouts!

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I am also interested in running a pure infantry Guard army.

Can you make a decent using using just:
-Company Commanders
-Primaris Psykers
-Command Squads
-Infantry Squads
-Special Weapon Squads
-Heavy Weapon Squads

And what regiment would be the best to run them as?

I wouldn't bother with special weapon squads too much, youll have several company command squads running around with banners and you'll want rough riders/Stormtroopers for outflanking and deepstriking, those combined with your infantry squads should cover most special weapons. The rest are absolutely kosher, I use them all heavily in my infantry lists.

As for regiment trait, that really depends.

Cadians are pure firepower, but lack in mobility and leadership. If you were going to go full cadia I would heavily consider Kell to help with leadership and possibly Creed for extra orders/CP's, but he's not as useful as Kell is. Cadians will hit hard but suffer in most tournament minded games thanks to having to move for objectives and having to fall back from turn 1 charges. They hit the hardest, but are easily predicted and very vulnerable to counterplay.

Catachan help you deal with CQC and offer good leadership without any strings attached. Squads want to be near officers anyways so most will be LD8-9 fairly easy with proper banner placement. Harker and Straken both offer serious advantages, and even marbo isnt bad. Catachan powerfist commanders are deceptively powerful for cost as well. Downside is their order and strategem suck for pure infantry. Very solid trait, good for agressive commanders. Possibly look into priests as well.

Valhallan is natural choice for leadership. Their relic makes conscripts useable and their order has utility, but usually works better with an infantry/Russ style list. Where their order shines is against people who attempt to "lock" units in combat by surrounding a model or two to prevent fallback. Your opponent will assume he is safe by wrapping a few conscripts to prevent fallback only for you to fire at them anyways. It's a niche trick, but an important one to know. This is your choice if you want to be able to take a punch. I've been using them a lot lately and their ability to eat hits is disgusting. Very frustrating for opponents if run well. Proper spread of Lord commissars, mk45, and banners make them the hardest to shift regiment in the codex.

Mordians is a solid choice as well. Excellent regiment trait gives better overwatch and improved LD, but they cannot spread out as well to deny charges and deepstrike. Their order is insanely powerful, as is their strategem. In my opinion one of the better regiment traits for pure infantry, but that base to base requirements is a major weakness. They hit insanely hard when led properly but take very careful placement. That sniper order alone ups their firepower considerably and they're one of the best regiments for if you're heavily considering special weapon and vet squads as sniping plasma is disgusting.

A hidden gem in my opinion is actually Armageddon. 18" rapid fire makes your key weapons (plasma/lasgun) far more powerful and gives you more flexibility. Your strategem, order, and relic are kind of pointless but that 18" rapid fire is a big deal. Properly leveraged it could be powerful, but they're one of the only regiments I've not tested so far. I need to see them in practice before I can truly endorse them for infantry.

Vostroyans have interesting applications as well, mainly for 15" rapid fire, their strategem, and to some degree their relic armor for your warlord to turn him into a Terminator. Probably not the best, but worth considering. I feel their trait is better served with other lists, but it's by no means bad, just outshone by regiments like cadia and catachan.

Tallarn are faster, but their outflank strategem is expensive for infantry, their relic and order don't help much, and their regiment trait encourages you to do things you don't typically want to do with infantry. I need to give them a try though, they may surprise me. Their big problem would be firepower, and I feel they would really need tank or stormtrooper support to match the kind of fire a Cadian or Mordian list could put out. Infantry lack firepower typically, and having a trait that hates heavy weapons only exacerbates the problem.

If I had to pick the "best", it'd be tough, and ultimately goes down to what you want to do. I would say cadian is best for firepower, catachans are best at being offensive (aka taking ground) valhallans are best at taking a punch, and mordians are best at dealing with all the turn 1 shenanigans out there that hurt IG. You need to heavily consider your playstyle and play with various regiments to see how they work in practice. Abilities that sound awesome on paper, like mordia's trait, can prove lackluster in reality when you see them in the field. Most of the regiments have weaknesses that only come out in the chaos of a game with a good opponent and you really need to know where your weak points lie.

In addition, and I know I'm going to get some odd looks for this, if you're going pure infantry I would heavily consider Lord commissars for most regiments. They cannot be picked out like command squads can and will often give the same leadership. Lots of people will gun command squads down if given the chance as the flag draws attention. Yes Lord commissars cost twice as much, but can be a decent little counter punch with power axes and mauls. In addition, he doesn't add leadership, he makes it a flat 9, which means you can be more liberal with sergeants as casualties than you could with a squad supported by a standard and he also makes units like mortar squads and SWS's "immune" to morale.

In addition, heavily consider some ogryn bodyguard and ratlings. Ogryn bodyguard keep your key officers alive (aka the grand strategist) can hide officers from line of sight, and hit pretty hard in assault. A couple sprinkled in your line do wonders. Ratings are the cheapest way to push back infiltrators and deepstrikers, and can even potentially chip in mortal wounds. Neither cost much and cover major weaknesses in any infantry list, as well as being fluffy.

MrMoustaffa,

Thank you for that information! Very helpful, been considering making an infantry based traitor Guard army since the Renegades and Heretics army just looks awful.

Was thinking of throwing in 3 Leman Russ Annihilators as my heavy support choices in a Brigade just to change it up.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I am also interested in running a pure infantry Guard army.

Can you make a decent using using just:
-Company Commanders
-Primaris Psykers
-Command Squads
-Infantry Squads
-Special Weapon Squads
-Heavy Weapon Squads

And what regiment would be the best to run them as?

Out of interest, is there a reason you don't want to use Scions?

I find them to be great for infantry lists.

 vipoid wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I am also interested in running a pure infantry Guard army.

Can you make a decent using using just:
-Company Commanders
-Primaris Psykers
-Command Squads
-Infantry Squads
-Special Weapon Squads
-Heavy Weapon Squads

And what regiment would be the best to run them as?

Out of interest, is there a reason you don't want to use Scions?

I find them to be great for infantry lists.

Mainly because I was thinking of doing a "traitor" Guard army.

So I’ve been looking at my bits box and I’ve got so many grenade launcher arms. Got me thinking. I propose the following:

Cadian vanguard detachment.
1 company commander
6 special weapon squads with 3 grenade launchers each.
Total cost 264 points.

My thinking is a 5 point grenade launcher which does d6 s3 shots is better than a 5 point guardsmen who does 1 per turn.

I would plan to keep them as a holding unit in a deployment zone using the cadian doctrine. Or give them tallarn and assault them up the board.

Fluff wise they’re called grenadiers of course.

Thought?

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Mainly because I was thinking of doing a "traitor" Guard army.

Use Traitor Scions.

 vipoid wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Mainly because I was thinking of doing a "traitor" Guard army.

Use Traitor Scions.

Call them blood pact.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
MrMoustaffa,

Thank you for that information! Very helpful, been considering making an infantry based traitor Guard army since the Renegades and Heretics army just looks awful.

Was thinking of throwing in 3 Leman Russ Annihilators as my heavy support choices in a Brigade just to change it up.

If tanks are being added give Valhallans a try. Your russe's will take a ton of heat as your only source of armor. Everyone talks big about how the trait is useless with target priority but in practice you'd be surprised how often a tank is left with only a wound or two, especially if you're in any meta that's even remotely casual. Sometimes an opponent is just a wound short and you can pop Jury Rigging to have a Russ hitting on 5's with only 2 wounds, very handy.

Annihilators should be a good choice. I've not tested them personally but they seem solid. If they don't work, use bog standard russe's and theyll never steer you wrong. If you are going solely with russe's as your tanks I'd suggest going all in or not at all. If you insist on 0 Stormtroopers, you could easily put in 5-6 leman russe's, and with a bit of finangling could easily give them their own Spearhead detachment so they'll be objective secured. Since you wont have much deepstriking and outflanking, your russes may become an important source for late game objective grabs if you can keep them alive.

I like Russes best in numbers - 5 or 6 sounds perfect. I also like 'em cheap, often with no sponsons. I think you get the most mileage out of the turret anyway, firing it twice, and I like the saturation that 5-6 chassis brings to the table. One small suggestion - the Conqueror is potentially a huge step up from the standard BC variant provided you're willing to model the coaxial weapon on. That reroll is huge, especially if the tanks are operating alone, or outside the range of an aura buff. Just a thought...

stratigo wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Mainly because I was thinking of doing a "traitor" Guard army.

Use Traitor Scions.

Call them blood pact.

That actually isn't a terrible idea now that I think of it. And seems like it can be quite decent.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
MrMoustaffa,

Thank you for that information! Very helpful, been considering making an infantry based traitor Guard army since the Renegades and Heretics army just looks awful.

Was thinking of throwing in 3 Leman Russ Annihilators as my heavy support choices in a Brigade just to change it up.

If tanks are being added give Valhallans a try. Your russe's will take a ton of heat as your only source of armor. Everyone talks big about how the trait is useless with target priority but in practice you'd be surprised how often a tank is left with only a wound or two, especially if you're in any meta that's even remotely casual. Sometimes an opponent is just a wound short and you can pop Jury Rigging to have a Russ hitting on 5's with only 2 wounds, very handy.

Annihilators should be a good choice. I've not tested them personally but they seem solid. If they don't work, use bog standard russe's and theyll never steer you wrong. If you are going solely with russe's as your tanks I'd suggest going all in or not at all. If you insist on 0 Stormtroopers, you could easily put in 5-6 leman russe's, and with a bit of finangling could easily give them their own Spearhead detachment so they'll be objective secured. Since you wont have much deepstriking and outflanking, your russes may become an important source for late game objective grabs if you can keep them alive.

If I did go with "traitor" Scions as Blood Pact, would running say 6 Leman Russ Annihilators as a Tallarn Detachment be a decent idea? I kind of like the idea of being able to move the tanks around without worrying about penalties to hit with the hull Lascannon as well.

Fun little addendum for anyone using ITC missions with infantry. Buy a heavy weapon for each infantry squad, doesn't matter what it is. Makes them 9 model units so they deny The Reaper

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
That actually isn't a terrible idea now that I think of it. And seems like it can be quite decent.

It's up to you, but I think Scions do solve two issues of Infantry lists: namely Mobility and Firepower.

In terms of Mobility, infantry armies tend to be quite unwieldy and relatively slow (though Tallarn can help to some degree). Now, granted, Scions only have good mobility on the turn they deploy, but that's still enough to get them near an objective or in range of a key target.

In terms of firepower, Infantry Squads have poor BS and few special/heavy weapons. Their firepower is decent relative to their cost, but their aforementioned unwieldiness can make it very hard to concentrate firepower. Again, this is where Scions come in handy as they can land right next to a key target and deliver BS3+ plasma shots (potentially with rerolls from a Prime).


In terms of other units, I enjoy using pseudo-platoons:
1 Company Commander
1 Advance/Screening Infantry Squad w/ Flamer
2-3 Infantry Squads with Plasmaguns and then either a Plasma Pistol (if I want mobility) or a Lascannon/Missile Launcher (for stationary firepower)
1-2 Heavy Weapon Squads (These will usually comprise either 3 Heavy Bolters or a Lascannon and 2 Mortars)

I'll usually have 3-4 of these, depending on the size of game (though I might adjust them a bit to fit into a detachment).

The screening squad goes at the front. Its job is to soak up enemy charges and/or firepower. The other Infantry Squads are meant to do damage. If I'm using Tallarn (or just want mobility), then I'll give them plasmaguns and plasma pistols (the latter to offset the lack of heavy weapon). Otherwise, they get plasmaguns and either lascannons or missile launchers.

The heavy weapons go towards the back. Ideally, they'll start the game in a good position and never move. Generally, if my infantry squads have heavy weapons, I'll just give my heavy weapon squads Heavy Bolters. However, if my infantry squads lack heavy weapons, I'll give my heavy weapon squads Lascannons and mortars (the latter can act as buffer to protect the lascannons).

Depending on circumstances, the company commander can go with either the infantry squads or the heavy weapons.

I'll also use a Primaris Psyker with the Death Mask of Ollanius (currently modelled as an Albino Mandrake) and the aforementioned Scions (generally a Prime with Command Rod and Laurels of Command, a Command Squad with 4 plasmaguns, and a Scion squad with 2 plasmaguns and a plasma pistol), and some Sentinels (since they're the only FA choice I own).

I used to use Astropaths as well, but I don't think they're worth it after the CA price hike.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Fun little addendum for anyone using ITC missions with infantry. Buy a heavy weapon for each infantry squad, doesn't matter what it is. Makes them 9 model units so they deny The Reaper

I would check that with a TO

Ice_can wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Fun little addendum for anyone using ITC missions with infantry. Buy a heavy weapon for each infantry squad, doesn't matter what it is. Makes them 9 model units so they deny The Reaper

I would check that with a TO

Would you count the unit before you buy the heavy weapon team or after? Because RAW, that 60mm base counts as one model for everything from morale checks to the priest aura.

Does the codex say that an infantry squad is a sergeant and 9 guardsmen? I get what your trying to do and I have no issue I was more saying that at a table I would be asking for a ruling.

Definitely 9 models

Ice_can wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Fun little addendum for anyone using ITC missions with infantry. Buy a heavy weapon for each infantry squad, doesn't matter what it is. Makes them 9 model units so they deny The Reaper

I would check that with a TO

Played at LVO. Can confirm that's how that works. One of the FLG Podcasts right before LVO even directly blessed off on it.

Also, Scions are not great in ITC. Yes, they kill something big and expensive, but you're often dropping a minimum of 3 MSU units into a suicide mission, which makes scoring the EoR more kills primary very difficult in addition to offering up an easy DBTC point and guaranteeing the one kill EoT primary. Possibly also offers an easy headhunter as well. I have a really hard time justifying taking them because they're such huge score pinatas.

U02dah4 wrote:
Definitely 9 models

QFT - 9 models indeed.

Ravemastaj wrote:

 greatbigtree wrote:
I think that Sentinels in cover with something like a Lascannon are gold. Area denial, no decay due to damage, with a threatening weapon that you don't want to ignore, but you also don't want to take shots away from Russes or other tanks. Puts the opponent in a bit of a bind, regarding targeting.

If they get cheaper, and stay just as they are, I'd be tickled pink. I already use them to cheaply fill FA slots. I'd use more than 3, if I owned more.

Why a lascannon though? A scout sentinel with a heavy flamer is 52pts. An armoured sentinel with a plasma cannon is 55pts. For list simplification, they are the best choice, AND a good plasma platform that's cheap is harder to come by now. For 15pts, you get:

1d3 STR7 AP-3 DMG1 36". You won't want to gets hot and kill your models (unless you're cadian and didn't move), but with a full slot you can shoot 3-9 shots of AP-3 every turn. By turn three, you are almost guaranteed to have got your points back on a 3 strong unit, even if all you shot at was space marine scouts!

For me, I have Plasma out the Wazoo on my Infantry, and I also take it on my Russes because I built them a million years ago. For me, having something to threaten heavy armour at long range is in greater demand. I treat them like a 3-man Tank-Sniping squad. We usually have a fair bit of "olde-schoole" area terrain that's easy for my Sentinels to get cover from. So they park with decent T, W, and Sv, and pound away on tough targets. Vs other Lascannons, they're just as hard to wound as a Russ, with a better save. The only "efficient" way to try to take them out is to divert resources that would be used to kill Russes... A distraction Carnifex of sorts.

So, for me, the Flamer / Plasma is not as useful in my lists. I like using them as a tool to deal with "Heavy" targets. Tank Snipers that can double-duty as a cheap tie-up troop to engage deep strikers.

Ravemastaj wrote:
Why a lascannon though? A scout sentinel with a heavy flamer is 52pts. An armoured sentinel with a plasma cannon is 55pts. For list simplification, they are the best choice, AND a good plasma platform that's cheap is harder to come by now. For 15pts, you get:

1d3 STR7 AP-3 DMG1 36". You won't want to gets hot and kill your models (unless you're cadian and didn't move), but with a full slot you can shoot 3-9 shots of AP-3 every turn. By turn three, you are almost guaranteed to have got your points back on a 3 strong unit, even if all you shot at was space marine scouts!

Personally, I quite like the scout move. I also have a ton of plasma elsewhere in my list.

Nevertheless, you make some good points. If I use Armoured Sentinels again, I'll try plasma on them.

Last league game rambling at least for now as league closed in for me(next week is simply last games for those who couldn't play this time). I got to play against space wolves I had played in 2nd round so now with armies twice as big(90PL though point max cap of 2000 pts. Incidentally mine was 1628+power fist). As I had shortage on painted models I was forced to just load up on even MORE tanks so: Pask with plasma's and lascannon, tank commander in punisher, heavy bolter and multi-meltas, 3 leman russ with battle cannons and heavy bolters all the way except for one without sponsons(due to model not having ones! I ran out of sponson russes!). 2 chimera with 1 having double flamers, 3 squads of infantry with autocannon+flamer, 2 special weapon squads(3xflamer, 2xplasma+flamer) and manticore. Oh and company commander with kurov's aquila, grand strategist and power fist I remembered to add to roster as I was pulling out models. Hey I had clearly more than enough points

I might have been able to get some other opponent but he was in 15 minutes before official start time, others weren't and as I had to leave about 2h15minutes or so later to get into train we started game. Scenario was this time sideways long ways with 24" between armies. 4 objectives deployed here and there. Each turn you are there you get point BUT take mortal wound not saved by anything period. d3 if you have more than 10 models or more than 11 wounds if single model. After end game count destroyed PL(half damaged half) and if warlord killed these points are DOUBLED. Then add 10 for each point you have scored from objectives. Well these were max we got for both so 10 for both as we both were able to get stuff into objectives from deployment or turn 1 latest and nobody was able to ever take other off. So basically those were just wound distributers and I had to take brunt due to having to take with tanks few times. Including one that was held all game by my manticore!

Anyway he had warlord and psyker in terminator armours that were held in reserve(and indeed warlord came as late as possible and out of LOS for rather obvious reason due to scenario!!!). We deployed with him not particularly eager to come into combat. Well he had rather shooty wolves. Apart from HQ's he had 2 devastator squad(lascannons and one with missiles and plasma), dreadnought with lascannons, big flier with wolfen, couple grey hunter squads and...yeah I think that's it.

He got deployed first despite me having to start. I had wave of infantry ahead, manticore out of LOS holding objective(and thus taking d3 damage each turn). Most russes were on my left side though punisher was more on right. He started mostly out of LOS behind ruins and flier way out but lascannon squad was in big building on sight. I got first turn despite +1 for him(Rolling 6 helps). So I moved up a bit taking control of objective that was not in my deployment zone and got pask into range of devastator squad. Much like last game game thus started with pask vaporizing that same squad without even leaving anything to do for rest of my army. Well one russ on far left was able to shoot at dreadnought but armour saved. Seeing I had wiped all I could see I claimed objectives, rolled for damage and THEN remembered manticore. Due to time issue I have been running I was rushing. I asked if I could still shoot. He said no. Well fair enough. It would have had no difference if I had remembered since he hadn't even started his turn but fair enough. I simly went to tight RAW play as well which resulted in me playing LOS as written which gave me one time I could shoot from stationary and one time I was able to move just half rather than more than that. In 7th ed LOS rules neither times I could have shoot anything and generally that's how I play but if he wants to play rules tight fair enough. Oh and I kept VERY quiet later when he could have tried longshot charge with 5 wolfen vs my infantry squad when he started out of LOS(so no overwatch). He would have needed like 11" but free no risk and if he gets he could have even consolidiated into Pask if he wipes squad. But if he won't allow me to fire manticore after such a small timing glitch like hell I'm going to give tactical advice like that!).

Anyway his turn he moved fast with flier ahead. Plasma squad emerged into ruins and I cursed for using reroll hit order for pask rather than shoot and smoke. He fired damage to pask and commander taking both to next bracket. That flier is nasty! Compared to poor vendetta that hits on 5+ if it moves this one hits on 3+. Urgh. Psyker came into my right flank spending whole game smiting infantry and giving cover to squads holding objective(2+ save marines aren't nice!). Dreadnought crippled russ that had fired at him leaving at 2 wounds but somehow never died(couple krak missiles were fired in game at it but survived)

Turn 2. Infantry moved ahead. Tanks mainly stood still. Order of turn was GET THAT FLIER DOWN! So basically I fired everything I had at it. Alas I couldn't take it down before manticore which finished it off. Wolfen got out of flier into position where commander couldn't shoot. Particularly own fault as I had positioned chimera sideway to ensure no gaps are where wolfen could charge through toward tank commander but don't think he could have got through terrain, chimera and infantry squad anyway due to 1" requirement. Anyway chimera flamers wounded one and tank commander fired at psychic covered marines. This would repeat basically all game with 2 squads in turn. One did die eventually but 2+ save really neuters that punisher.

His turn 2. Failed to kill pask though got him couple wounds. Wolfen took position behind terrain piece properly(here I stayed VERY quiet about the charge potential).

Turn 3. Pask and couple russ shufled around to get LOS to wolfen and proceeded to pound them down to 1 guy. Think I caused some damage to devastator squad here. I had to take mortal wounds with pask(that 10 PL for win is simply too awesome to not take not to mention I needed to go there just to see the wolfen!). Think Pask was at 2 or 3 wounds by now.

He finished off Pask here I think. Wolfen advanced into forest heading toward crippled russ. Flamer chimera was finished off which exploded and took 3 guys off from BOTH special weapon squads AND infantry squad. Grey hunters finished flamer plasma squad, morale the second. That's about it.

Turn 4. Took out dreadnought by moving 2 intact russ to help crippled one. Tried to remove wolfen but failed. Took out devastators. His turn. As wolfen moved toward rush I quickly checked if I had anything on strategems. Noticed word on defensive gunners. I hit on 5+. I double checked on organizer and yup. My russ that has BS6+ due to damage hits on 5+ on overwatch on this. So when he charged I used it, 2 hits from battle cannon, 1 wound, save failed and 3 damage. 2 saved by special save but as it had wound from before died. Hahahaha! Russ more accurate on overwatch than normally

Turn 5. Here I had dilemma. Manticore was down to 2 wounds. If I stay still I get to shoot on BS6+ and take d3 mortal wounds quite likely dying. But if I move I lose victory point worth 10 PL...Manticore dying is 4 so actually rather easy. Stand and fire! I tried everything I could to get one casualty to the squad over his objective(close to which I had advanced with infantry so if I can remove his squad I break the objective deadlock as we were dead even there!) but not one dead before it came to manticore so while unlikely to do anything I fired(nothing better anyway) and killed 3. Not nearly enough. End of turn I scored point with manticore and it blew. Ah well. He finished off my squad and that's about it for his last turn. We rolled if game ends(3+ continues) and with time issue luckily it didn't.

I had lost pask, half wound tank commander, half wound russ, chimera, manticore, both SWS, 2 infantry squads. He had lost little bith of this and that but enough to give me 6 PL more casualties. Objectives were 10 pts for both so no difference there. I won. Narowly. Had he took out ANY vehicle except for damaged russ(worth 5 pts) he would have drawn or won.

So 5 games. Won twice against same wolf player and once against templars and lost twice against same dark eldar army(first time in rather anti-IG scenario, one time with him simply having pretty darn good army vs me with lots of small units and lots of dark lances that kept hitting, wounding and rolling 5's and 6's for damage and was able to overwhelm me on the fight over objective with too many MSU style for me to keep him out of objective long enough).

Fun league. Not sure if there's new one in any near future so could be this for 40k games for a while.

How do you deal with Magnus?

gendoikari87 wrote:
How do you deal with Magnus?

Shoot him.

How does one manage anti-tank against -1 hit armies (Alaitoc etc)?

I'm seeing about 2-5 damage on a Fire Prism with 4 LRBTs... not impressed!

 Weazel wrote:
How does one manage anti-tank against -1 hit armies (Alaitoc etc)?

I'm seeing about 2-5 damage on a Fire Prism with 4 LRBTs... not impressed!

Buy better dices? Even with -1 to hit and spirit stone for 6+++ it should cause 7 wounds vs about 10.3 without alaitoc(just battle cannon).

That or deep strike some plasma tossing guys if it doesn't have chaff around. Bye bye -1 to hit.

tneva82 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
How does one manage anti-tank against -1 hit armies (Alaitoc etc)?

I'm seeing about 2-5 damage on a Fire Prism with 4 LRBTs... not impressed!

Buy better dices? Even with -1 to hit and spirit stone for 6+++ it should cause 7 wounds vs about 10.3 without alaitoc(just battle cannon).

That or deep strike some plasma tossing guys if it doesn't have chaff around. Bye bye -1 to hit.

Well I just did a few passes with dice so it's not a scientific result, but I would hope 4 tanks could pop one tank in a phase... Also vice versa a single Fireprism (okay technically two fireprisms) with Linked Fire did 27 damage to a Leman Russ. Sounds balanced!

People seem dead set that Plasma is good anti-tank but I'm just not buying it. I fail to hit and wound with them and even supercharged you need a significant amount of shots to do any real damage... What's IG's best source of medium-long range D6 damage shooting?

 Weazel wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
How does one manage anti-tank against -1 hit armies (Alaitoc etc)?

I'm seeing about 2-5 damage on a Fire Prism with 4 LRBTs... not impressed!

Buy better dices? Even with -1 to hit and spirit stone for 6+++ it should cause 7 wounds vs about 10.3 without alaitoc(just battle cannon).

That or deep strike some plasma tossing guys if it doesn't have chaff around. Bye bye -1 to hit.

Well I just did a few passes with dice so it's not a scientific result, but I would hope 4 tanks could pop one tank in a phase... Also vice versa a single Fireprism (okay technically two fireprisms) with Linked Fire did 27 damage to a Leman Russ. Sounds balanced!

People seem dead set that Plasma is good anti-tank but I'm just not buying it. I fail to hit and wound with them and even supercharged you need a significant amount of shots to do any real damage... What's IG's best source of medium-long range D6 damage shooting?

It would have taken 2 Fire Prisms, 3 turns of max damage lance shots to do 27 damage to a Russ (saying everything hits and wounds every time).

Alternatively, it'd take 2 turns of max shot, max damage from the str 9 profile to do that many wounds.

On average, it'd take 2 turns for 2 Fire Prisms using Linked Fire to kill 1 Russ.

Likewise, it'd take 2 turns of 8 Battle Cannon shots to kill 1 Fire Prism with Spiritstones. (Well, first turn they'd do 10 out of 12 wounds but... still requires that 2nd turn).

Catachan will also change the figures, likewise Cadian etc etc.

 Weazel wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
How does one manage anti-tank against -1 hit armies (Alaitoc etc)?

I'm seeing about 2-5 damage on a Fire Prism with 4 LRBTs... not impressed!

Buy better dices? Even with -1 to hit and spirit stone for 6+++ it should cause 7 wounds vs about 10.3 without alaitoc(just battle cannon).

That or deep strike some plasma tossing guys if it doesn't have chaff around. Bye bye -1 to hit.

Well I just did a few passes with dice so it's not a scientific result, but I would hope 4 tanks could pop one tank in a phase... Also vice versa a single Fireprism (okay technically two fireprisms) with Linked Fire did 27 damage to a Leman Russ. Sounds balanced!

People seem dead set that Plasma is good anti-tank but I'm just not buying it. I fail to hit and wound with them and even supercharged you need a significant amount of shots to do any real damage... What's IG's best source of medium-long range D6 damage shooting?

Well non-alaitoc prism goes poof in one round with about average results though still fairly often fails(of course sometimes you roll good and don't need 1-2 tanks). But if it's T7, 3+/6++ and say 12W no you wouldn't be getting.

For plasma you obviously have some sort of reroll to hit so that helps. And deep striking plasma is obviously the tempestus so 3+ to hit with reroll 1's. You CAN'T be missing that much with those or indeed time for new dices! And with overcharge plasma hit is actually better than hit from battle cannon. Albeit you get more shots out of battle cannon but again here you would be hitting on 3+ rerolling 1's vs 5+.

Incidentally here thus 4 plasma guns would cause averaging 5.76 damage to said prism. You thus need bit more than 8 plasma gunning scion vs 7 battle cannons to take out one alaitoc fire prism with spirit stone.

Catachan/Cadian are going to help battle cannon a bit though. Plus sponson and hull weapons maybe.

Of course problem with scions will be getting that deep strike. Odds are eldar will bubblewrap so T1 nuke is not likely possible. T2 requires you to clear the chaff first.

Not sure IG has much. Melta sucks. Lascannons and maybe missile launchers but those hit into -1 to hit issue.

Pask btw can be pretty damn good at taking out anything but he's going to be prime target. But with 2d6+2d3 plasma shots hitting on 2+ rerolling 1's...Good luck surviving that.