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New rule Our Weapons Are Useless - allows a squad to auto fail a morale check for loosing combat. Victors get to make a sweeping advance, but aren't marines still immune to sweeping advances?


Upon further reading. ATSKNF - Sweeping advance doesn't destroy them, but remain locked in combat.
So can they choose to fail, or do they always locked in combat? Fearless cannot choose to auto fail (specifically mentioned in BRB).

Marines can choose to fail after they lose assault and fall back (ATSKNF is not fearless). If they are swept, they auto-rally and are now considered to be in combat. The key here is that the Marines need to fall back and get caught, so the combat will shift position on the tabletop.

I don't have the V:SM codex so I can't say. But tarpitting still works. They fail morale they get away, just charge them again.

It does mean that overwatch becomes very cheesy with marines considering you just back out each turn fire upon them charge or overwatch.

Damn marines

KrimsunBaron wrote:I don't have the V:SM codex so I can't say. But tarpitting still works. They fail morale they get away, just charge them again.

Well, not if you auto-fail in their turn - and there's no benefit to auto-failing in your own turn.

The worst part is this: Charge marines, get shot on overwatch. Win, they fall back then auto-rally. The only way to not get shot to pieces next turn is to sweep into them.

And even then, they may be able to Overwatch as you sweep into them. Haven't read C:SM and unsure if sweeping into falling back Marines counts as a charge. If it does, they can definitely Overwatch.

Remember that you can only choose to fail a morale check out of close combat if your weapons can't hurt the enemy. Otherwise it effectively gives everyone Hit and Run.

Well a more dangerous hit and run where you could die.

Walkers suffer from the following changes.

1) Krak Grenades and Melta hit on WS rather than 6's.
2) AV12 can easily be glanced to death by Krak.

The voluntary failure rule is less of an issue for marines as they always have krak and typically can access melta/powerfist for av 13. Its more likely to come into play with a xenos CC unit like beastmasters who are willing to gamble a sweep with their high init to avoid being tarpitted by a dreadnaught.

You have to be unable to hurt them at all tho. So it would have to be a T8 model if youre using marines right? (assuming not Pfist).

Marines have Krak Grenades, which can be used against MCs now, so they'll rarely be able to use this rule.

If they haven't traded it out, though, Combat Tactics is awesome for SM.

Well my BA don't have combat tactics unfortunately. I guess this works against an av13 walker IF I haven't equipped the squad in question with a meltabomb or pfist.

How many AV13 walkers are out there? It seems that many units will never be in a situation where they cannot possibly hurt the enemy.

Only av13 walker I can think of off the top of my head is my furioso dread.

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:Only av13 walker I can think of off the top of my head is my furioso dread.

Soul grinder, triarch stalker....

Ironclad.

Neroman wrote:Ironclad.

Anything that can't manage St7 attacks can simply choose to leave combat with one.

Not quite. They can choose to fail morale; which means a bit under 50% chance to escape. Failure to escape meaning you lose the unit if they don't have ATSKNF.

So I can choose to autofall back and have a good chance of getting cut down, OR stay in melee until I can bail the unit out?

The tarpit is more deadly than ever. Now you can be tempted into escaping, but if you fail, you lose the whole unit and something ELSE is going to get charged by the tarpitter