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I like the Ally rules - i really do - I have substiantial Space Wolves, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, IG, Tau, Necron, Eldar, SOB and Dark Eldar armies so I can mix and match for fun

I look forward to seeing these alliance on the battlefield in many forms.

However I feel that some of the levels of Alliance don't reflect the past and present GW fluff so have been playing with the present official Ally Matrix to make it fit.

I will concede that it is based on my understanding/preferences of and for the fluff.




Some notes - I have included the Tau and IG as Tryanid Des Allies due to genestealer cults being effective in their population base in the fluff.
I thnk the Dark Angels will Ally with other Imperials but are reluctant to do so and can safely remove/overawe Guard if they need to.
I don't think the BT will ally with the Ncerons except in dire cicumstances but would see no issues fighting alongside the SOB
The Astartes may indeed fight alongside the Xenos if they have to against greater threats, but Battlebrothers is just a step too far.

I'll only judge from the SoB PoV as I feel most comfortable with the knowledge of this army - It still looks rather "generous" what with Sisters being allowed to ally with Necrons and Dark Eldar (personally I would only include the "more diplomatic" xenos, Tau and Eldar, as Desperate Allies to differentiate them from the obviously tainted ones and sworn eternal enemies of Mankind), but it does look better than the original one.

To be perfectly honest, the best reasoning I've seen as to how the allies matrix is how it is is this:
People rarely read the entire fluff, and even then it's only what's available to the public in rulebooks / codexes / novels that we know.
So everyone takes away their own personal impression of the fluff, with their own interpretation and their own view on how the universe works.

But ultimately, the only one with the entire, grand picture of the lore and infact, the people that determine what fluff is fluff are Games Workshop and their team of writers.

Therefore, while you or me, or others may not necessarily understand just why it is how it is, it IS how it is, because GW said so.

Ultimately, the only realy problem there is, in my eyes, is that Tyranids get no allies whatsoever.
Which is frankly fixed by allowing 'nids to ally to themselves.
Maybe have nids and guard as allies of convenience or something... but mostly I'd say just the nids ally to nids thing.

I think most races should be able to ally under "Desperate Circumstances" even if its only telling your soldiers to stop shooting at one enemy until the other enemy is dead

ahh blast just noticed I left the BB ally with the Astartes rather than make it Conveience as I intended - I'll have to upload it again :(

@ Ovion - GW make mistakes - the chart might be one of them - they are by no means infaliable

I still believe that Dark Angels should have "Come the Apocalypse" for all xenos as they are the most intolerate of anything not human and "Desperate Allies" for GK and SoB as they are always wary when the Inquisition/Ecclesiarchy is around.

Its 'fluffier' but still not perfect , yet.

I'd second the notion of DA being less likely as allies towards xenos.

Tau actually actively refuse any alliances with Orks, Tyranids, or Dark Eldar, even come the apocalypse; they're like a naive young lover - once spurned, always resentful. There is no reasoning with Ork or Tyranid, they even have special names for them, equating them more with natural disasters than 'races'.

1. The game is a wargame, not a skirmish game. Things like genestealer cults are best left to necromunda etc. They simply are not a threat like the other factions in the game are, nor are their (para)military activities on the same scale as the other factions. They just dont have access to that level of weponry etc.

2. Dont confuse rare events w common occurrence. An instance of two factions joining forces in the fluff could just as much be an exception as it is a rule. GW did things the way they did both for balance and fluff reasons, as gamers and fans its not our place to assume we know better.

I'd argue that, as even with the War of Dark Revelations, they still have the view ' Well, I'm sure all of them aren't bad '

But I agree on the 'nids and Orks bit :p

chaos0xomega wrote:They simply are not a threat like the other factions in the game are, nor are their (para)military activities on the same scale as the other factions.

Actually, they are, once the infection has reached the ranks of the government and the PDF - premier targets for Genestealer activity.

chaos0xomega wrote:An instance of two factions joining forces in the fluff could just as much be an exception as it is a rule.

Just speaking for the SoB here, but the Black Templars are probably the one Chapter the Sororitas have the most common fluff with. On the flipside, there's sufficient bad blood between the SW and the Ecclesiarchy to justify a worse relationship status than that afforded to nearly all other Astartes, with whom such a history is non-existent.

You say that "as gamers and fans it would not be our place to assume" - but that is all we can do until GW actually delivers fluff that lends an explanation to certain combinations in this chart. The way it is, it simply ignores previous fluff. It could be a retcon, but it should not be surprising that our first reaction consists of raised eyebrows. For 20 years we get told how the Imperium hates on aliens, and now the Space Marines are Battle Brothers with Tau? Go ahead and label me arrogant, but yeah, I do believe that I do know better than whoever wrote this chart.

My biggest problem is Guard and Chaos Marines/Daemons not being battle brothers. Traitor Guard/Chaos guard is not a rare occurance to say the least. Legions of IG go traitor every day. Most of them do not join chaos but a large portion(1/3) ultimately do.

I dont like Crons being regular allies with GK.

Forget what you know about the fluff, 20+ years of 40k lore are being rewritten as we speak, after the last few codexes I would have thought more people would have realized that. Its the dev studios world, were just playing in it.

chaos0xomega wrote:Forget what you know about the fluff, 20+ years of 40k lore are being rewritten as we speak, after the last few codexes I would have thought more people would have realized that. Its the dev studios world, were just playing in it.

Fluff gets rewritten at every single month, but that doesn't mean we should reset our brains every time. I'll acknowledge a retcon when it actually appears, not before when all we can do is make wild guesses as to why in the warp this army and this one have that or that alliance status and not another one.

Sáce Marines BB with Xenos: Space Marines are the major non-revoltant power in the empire to defy the empire "law". There are so many Space Marines Chapters, and they are all so full of pride and glory, that they have their own practices around.

Hell, from the 9 fundation chapters, 3 care not to the codex astartes, other 5 use it, but feel free to interpret it as they want, and 1 was founded by the author of it...

Space marines can and should do what they please, only depending on the chapter. There are chapters declared as traitors, who still exist and claim to fight for the emperor!!!

Tau: should ally with everything willing to it. They have no sworn enemies, and/or dont understand all the roles each race have in galaxy completely.

Tyranids: those guys are the most alien creatures in the galaxy, the only ones who was not created in the galaxy. But apart from the obvious genestealer cults, there are other ways to use Genestealers as allies: Dark Eldar Haemonculi Cults manipulate isolated nid forces, and Necrons are smart enough to know they will not be eaten by the nids, so they can use the nids as "not so smart" allies. Hell, think how a nid army with allied with daemons could sound like cthulu thing!!!!

I think the allies thing is all wrong, in the place it bring a "obligatory grid", not a "sugestion of fluffwise alliances". GW should have made an entire chapter of the BRB only talking about the fluffness of alliances...

Chaos Guard, Chaos Daemons and Chaos Marines not beying BB? Why?

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Sáce Marines BB with Xenos: Space Marines are the major non-revoltant power in the empire to defy the empire "law".

Yeah, but (as far as I know) they all revere the Emperor and follow his decrees. "Hate the Xenos" is a proverb I've seen in every single Space Marine Codex so far.

Lynata wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Forget what you know about the fluff, 20+ years of 40k lore are being rewritten as we speak, after the last few codexes I would have thought more people would have realized that. Its the dev studios world, were just playing in it.

Fluff gets rewritten at every single month, but that doesn't mean we should reset our brains every time. I'll acknowledge a retcon when it actually appears, not before when all we can do is make wild guesses as to why in the warp this army and this one have that or that alliance status and not another one.

Indeed and there is nothing in the new rulebook that contradicts the older /current fluff - yes the new codexes have changed things but until they actually change something it seems very foolish to just accept what could be errors? Also if we don't say anything then the (admittedely very tiny) chance that things may be adjusted is gone.

Finally if we can put together a more fluffy one then those people who prefer to have the chart actually based on the current background can use that instead

For those that have contributed - thank you - I'll have a look over the weekend and update the Matrix.

The Allies idea is good - execution not so good......IMO of course.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
Tau: should ally with everything willing to it. They have no sworn enemies, and/or dont understand all the roles each race have in galaxy completely.

Tyranids: those guys are the most alien creatures in the galaxy, the only ones who was not created in the galaxy. But apart from the obvious genestealer cults, there are other ways to use Genestealers as allies: Dark Eldar Haemonculi Cults manipulate isolated nid forces, and Necrons are smart enough to know they will not be eaten by the nids, so they can use the nids as "not so smart" allies. Hell, think how a nid army with allied with daemons could sound like cthulu thing!!!!

The hivemind is smarter than anything in this galaxy. Its smallest iota of its attention is more than a match for the culmination of a cabal's trickery. Nids and necrons fight to destruction in much the same way you'd want to eradicate carnivorous termites in the foundation of your house. Chaos doesn't really go near nids; their presence has a tendency to smooth-out the warp and interfere with manifestation, in much the same way pouring a thick layer of ants onto a fetid will stop tadpoles from surfacing.

As for Tau; See scorned naive lover comparison.

Your other points are decent enough; There are space marines, and there are Space Marines, and they'll pretty much "Do What They Want". Tyranids should have no allies but themselves, for FOC purposes. Tau have good reason for distrusting Necron, Dark Eldar, Ork, and Tyranid, but should be chummy convenient allies with everyone else.

My thoughts;

tau should be Battle Brothers with Eldar, convinients for everyone elsse & desperates for nids (for it to be fluffy). Crons should be convinient allies with all. (except Eldar, light or dark)

It's like no one has even read the Tau codecies. The great devourer is never an ally. Their entire militant existence after the ethereals has been devoted to staving off tyranid and ork infestations.

You could make an argument out of naivete for Dark Eldar as desperate allies, but I'd like to think that "naivete" is not the same as "stupidity."

Ok, but to everyone else they say "join us"

"Or die", but yeah, pretty much.

Mr Morden wrote: Some notes - I have included the Tau and IG as Tryanid Des Allies due to genestealer cults being effective in their population base in the fluff.

If you do, why are they desperate allies? It should be exactly as when you are allied with demons.
And also add orks to tyranid allies list; orc genestealer cults are mentioned multiple times.

Ratliker wrote:

Mr Morden wrote: Some notes - I have included the Tau and IG as Tryanid Des Allies due to genestealer cults being effective in their population base in the fluff.

If you do, why are they desperate allies? It should be exactly as when you are allied with demons.
And also add orks to tyranid allies list; orc genestealer cults are mentioned multiple times.

Yeah, mentioned as being stamped out almost immediately because of being unorky. OUT OF CONTEXT FLUFF MANIPULATION GO

At least its in the fluff................more sense than some of the present Matrix

Am still thinking about this re level of alliance

Id put tau as battle brothers with IG and eldar, rather than SM and eldar, simply because tau have humans in the empire who fight for them using imperial tech, and the fact that space marines are brought up to hold something between high mistrust and genocidal hatred for aliens, the tau included. If anything SM and Eldar should be battle brothers before SM and tau, since the space marines have sided with the eldar multiple times and despite seeing them as arrogant dying fools do normally respect them, at least more than they do the tau it seems via fluff.

Tau also shouldn't be able to ally with orks. It says in the tau codex that they orks are the one race that the tau have decreed to be disallowed from the greater good, and must be exterminated. Like someone already said, they see them (and the nids) as natural disasters or plagues that should be eradicated. The only mention of tau ever inflicting exterminatus on any world is against orks.


As already mentioned, Dark angels should be desperate allies/come the apocalypse with all xeno races, they are intolerable of aliens. Mabye desperate with tau and eldar and come the apocalypse with everyone else.

Also Im sure there was a typo during the final allies list that made templars and sisters desperate allies instead of space wolves and templars. But there you go :s

er, Tau exterminatus lolwut?

In the tau codex O'shovah inflicts exterminatus upon several ork worlds just after the damocles crusade before he goes rogue

ok, mustve missed that part