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I just read somewhere that my beloved Land Speeder Typhoon's missile launcher has changed from Heavy 2 to Heavy 1, twin-linked with 6th edition. Does anyone know if this is true? I'm at work and don't have my book on me.

If they nerfed Black Templars again, then I just don't know what I'll play anymore.

No, no worries, still heavy 2.

phoenix darkus wrote:No, no worries, still heavy 2.

Actually, RAW back to the rules in the Codex, i.e. S5 AP5 TL-Blast. The entry in the FAQ that updated the Typhoon Multiple Missile Launcher isn't there anymore, for some Emperor-forsaken reason.

Edit, had cyclone in my mind, pg 416 halfway down right side, still H2.

rulebook < codex...

Yeah, it used to be fixed in the last 5th edition codex, and now in this one it's gone. That's why I'm wondering. Unfortunately, it's impossible to ask GW this question directly, isn't it?

All of the space marine Typhoon ML stats can be found on Pg 414 of the new rulebook.

H2.

I hope you're right, but I've got people in my area saying that the codex (and the FAQ for the codex) trump the BRB, and now the FAQ doesn't say that anymore.

At the beginning of the FAQ, it states to use weapon profiles in the BRB.

ShottyScotty wrote:At the beginning of the FAQ, it states to use weapon profiles in the BRB.

No it doesn't. It tells you to consult the Rulebook for Hull Points and Unit Types, not weapons.

Well, when you consider that Black Templars and Dark Angels both had older, crappier versions of the typhoon in their codex, and the old errata changed them both, and now with the new errata, the one for DA is still the same, and there is not an update to the BT entry, you guys got hosed. I would take this to mean it was an oversight, but, rules as written, you have to go back to the older version that your codex shows. It actually kindof makes sense, as your typhoons are so dang-blasted cheap (mine are only 5 pts more, but others are quite a bit more).

The way I look at it: every weapon in every codex (I think) is listed in the appendix in the back of the 6th edition BRB. In that list which is three pages long, they show stats for the Typhoon Missile Launcher, but not the Typhoon Multiple Missile Launcher as listed in the BT codex. Therefore, I don't think they mean for the Black Templars to be the only force in the entire game to have a missile launcher that only fires twin-linked frag missiles if they didn't list it in the appendix. If it was in the appendix, then I would totally agree.

There has to be a way to break this "rule". I think its a joke that we are the only codex who gets hosed on this typhoon rule.

J99Pwrangler wrote:There has to be a way to break this "rule". I think its a joke that we are the only codex who gets hosed on this typhoon rule.

You also get the cheapest typhoon, and tank hunting terminators with 2 weapons in a 5 man squad.
You have to take the bad with the good; until a FAQ says otherwise.
I'm not going to shed any tears for BT armies that loaded up on an undercosted unit because an old FAQ updated the firepower without updating the cost.

-Matt

So we were barely competitive before, and now it's worse due to this, but that's okay with you? Good to hear. Thanks for your input.

I'm glad that with this change, they finally fixed the last undercosted unit in the whole game. Every unit is perfectly and equally costed now. Oh, wait...

There are reasons we get cheaper typhoons.

Our troops cant combat squad, or get kraks, or frags, Our heavy weapons dont get a bolt pistol as a back up. Yes, we can get 20 man troop squads, or a 5 man squad with 1 heave, and 1 special weapon.

We dont get devastators for heavy fire support.

We dont get to use scouts as normal, they are tired in to our crusader troops.

Our bikers are more expensive then codex marines.

Honestly, the typhoons are an advantage that greatly helps the Black Templars stay on the edge of being a competitive army! We needed those, why would DA keep that rule, but BT get rid of it? It makes no sense what so ever.

Rhinos are 50 FREAKING POINTS and razorback is 70!, 90 if you add a lascannon.
I think this more than offsets how cheap the typhoons are.

All of this "well this unit is undercosted" and "well that unit is overcosted" is irrelevant. The RB says that if there is a conflict between codex and RB, the codex wins.

The FAQ does not change the typhoon to Heavy 2, so it remains as printed at TL heavy 1.

This is RAW.

If you don't want to play by RAW, just ask your opponent. Most people recognize this as an oversight, and I would likely be open to amending this oversight in any friendly game I play.

No point in moaning about what RAW says, your moans don't change anything. Better that you are aware of the rules regressing back than not.

I tried emailing the address on the GW site that you're supposed to email to ask rules questions. It's on the Contact Us page. Here's the response I got:

"This email address is currently inactive; please check for updates on our website for options that may be available in the future."

So now I'm going to have to write a letter on paper, like a caveman, and have various agents carry it all the way to the United Kingdom because GW can't afford a laptop, I assume. All this just to see if they did actually screw this up, or whether they meant to do this. I would think that if they meant to make this change, then it would have been mentioned in the FAQ in color, like all the other changes to the codex from the previous version. But we shall see, once they swiftly answer my hand-written note. Check back in three-to-four fortnights.

Dracos wrote:All of this "well this unit is undercosted" and "well that unit is overcosted" is irrelevant. The RB says that if there is a conflict between codex and RB, the codex wins.

The FAQ does not change the typhoon to Heavy 2, so it remains as printed at TL heavy 1.

This is RAW.

If you don't want to play by RAW, just ask your opponent. Most people recognize this as an oversight, and I would likely be open to amending this oversight in any friendly game I play.

No point in moaning about what RAW says, your moans don't change anything. Better that you are aware of the rules regressing back than not.

My point was in response to people saying that because Templar typhoons are cheaper than other armies' versions it reverted. If that was the case, then rhinos and razorbacks should have been boosted somehow or brought in line with other codexes. But that didn't happen, and this is likely just a case of GW missing something basic. Similar to how DE and Eldar Harlequins, which are supposed to be the same, didn't get updated the same way in their respective FAQs.

RAW are RAW and I'll play them that way, but it doesn't always mean that I won't shake my head and sigh at them.

Greetings from Germany.

I would like to put this issue to rest. This is an error in the English codex. Please check the German Black Templars 6th Edition codex, or any other language version for that matter. There is an entry for page 39 and 48 which clearly indicates that, yes, the Black Templars Typhoon is still a Heavy 2 Missile Launcher, and yes, this is an error only. This is definitive proof, unless non-English speaking Typhoons are supposed to be somehow better??

Praise the Emperor.

I fully expect this oversight to be corrected in the next version of the FAQ. The same stat line is also included in the other language versions of the FAQ. If you don't believe me, look for yourself:

German:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2420325a_Black_Templars_FAQ_6Ed_v1.pdf

And the most positive proof:

French:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2420374a_FAQ_Black_Templars_6%C3%A9d_version_1_0_-_juillet_2012

Which was updated on the 2nd of July, making it much more recent than the English codex. If it was an error with the other language FAQs, wouldn't they have fixed it with the newer updates?

NO! Rejoice my brother Templars!

Nice find. I checked it myself, and it does indeed keep the BT one in line with the others.

Now all you need is to get an actual copy of the codex, and opponents who read German.

KGatch113 wrote:
Now all you need is to get an actual copy of the codex, and opponents who read German.

Either that or opponents who aren't dimwitted douchebags.

KGatch113 wrote:
Now all you need is to get an actual copy of the codex, and opponents who read German.

Why? That doesn't make any sense. It's all the same. It's clearly an error in the English FAQ for the Codex.

I just dont see an opponent letting us use a FAQ from another country to benefit from this. Other countries, maybe. Yes, I am sure GW just forgot to include it, but we still get heavy 1 here in the US.

Now, J99P, that's just being anglo-centric. One must learn to embrace other cultures to receive a Heavy 2 Typhoon Missile Launcher.

Viva la Deutschland, or whatever.

J99Pwrangler wrote:I just dont see an opponent letting us use a FAQ from another country to benefit from this. Other countries, maybe. Yes, I am sure GW just forgot to include it, but we still get heavy 1 here in the US.

It's not just one FAQ, it's all the other language versions of the Black Templar 6th edition FAQ. Every single one. It simply means it was an error. And yes, we must be culturally sensitive to keep our Heavy 2 Typhoons!

Oh, I am all for keeping the Heavy 2 Typhoons around... since I just bought 3 more land speeders right before 6th ed came out! I just hope GW comes about and says " oh... yeah, about that.... my bad." and fix this in-justice!!!!! I think the Templars should go to the supreme courts on this one and file a lawsuit with the Codex Astartes. lol.

Well... you always can ask your opponent if it would be ok to field them as heavy 2, and explain the situation.....

In a casual game, yeah, no problem, Heavy 2. In a competitive game at a tournament, you'll need to provide the proof to the TO or your opponent, which means the actual document ( not a pdf, they can be faked) and of course, a way to translate it.

Otherwise my Swahili copy of Codex Space Marines will be used to give all Marines AP2 bolters and 2++ rerollable saves and Str 7 AP2 power weapon attacks.