Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know that there was a forum topic about how you will deal with flyers, but how will a player deal with all the skyfire weapons thats coming out? Especially the bastions with quad guns and all the other things, My flyer doesn't really feel safe enough.

You're going to want to try and knock out skyfire weapons before your flyers hit the board. Failing that, focus you flyers' firepower on any AA threats as soon as they enter play.

Depending on how much they concentrate on AA and just how much dependency I have on my flyers, I will likely want to keep it minimal otherwise those AA will not only be a threat to my flyers but be a diversion and cause trouble. I'd probably send in maybe one or two units with enough punch to take out whatever AA they have quickly and efficiently, but will not waste more than that.

I was actually thinking for a defense line to deep strike a terminator squad behind/near the AA to at least provide a distraction.

Tiger9gamer wrote:I was actually thinking for a defense line to deep strike a terminator squad behind/near the AA to at least provide a distraction.

Good idea, but how do you guarantee they arrive before your flyers do?

I have no clue. can i just "forget" to escort a speeder onto the board?

Course, you could put them in a drop pod. That'd have them down on the first turn.

oh? you can do that?

Yeah. I was thinking of doing that and just throwing a furioso there.

Tiger9gamer wrote:oh? you can do that?

With the Vanilla dex, yeah. Drop Pod Assault rule has half your drop pods, rounding up, arrive on the first turn.

melta or at least some squad with melta of some sort.

Yes, the "only be hit on a 6" and good cover saves are a pretty big liability on the more expensive flyers. I seriously overestimated the defensive power of my Scythes...just before massed low S fire took them down. AV 11 is really low and those dreaded Bastions are a huge threat to your flyers...not to mention that some people even bring the Fortress along with its ridicolously OP AP 3 pie plate.

htj wrote:You're going to want to try and knock out skyfire weapons before your flyers hit the board. Failing that, focus you flyers' firepower on any AA threats as soon as they enter play.

The flyer has better things to do than that.
Remember skyfire isn't a auto death for the flyer.

Just target it with your army before they arrive as said.

okay, and onto the bastions, will the drop podding terminators be able to take down a bastion by punching it really hard?or would they be able to go in and murder all the guys at CC.

and what things like vindicators? a strength 10 ap2 pie plate on a bastion sounds like it could be a good idea.I mean it is fluffy because demolisher cannons are for sieges.

Termies on the deep strike won't murder anything in cc... they can't assault, remember? You're going to need to hit it with melta/missiles, etc.

As for the original question: Take more than 1 flyer?? They are definitely the sort of things that become more effective as you increase their quantity, especially against armies where Skyfire is limited to one or two weapons. I can handle one flyer alright, maybe two... but when I have to face 5 (like i did last night) I am absolutely helpless...

chaos0xomega wrote:Termies on the deep strike won't murder anything in cc... they can't assault, remember? You're going to need to hit it with melta/missiles, etc.

As for the original question: Take more than 1 flyer?? They are definitely the sort of things that become more effective as you increase their quantity, especially against armies where Skyfire is limited to one or two weapons. I can handle one flyer alright, maybe two... but when I have to face 5 (like i did last night) I am absolutely helpless...

agreed. vs other fliers my lootas and own dakka jets can easliy drop a single flier.. beyond 1-2 htough issues begin

KrimsunBaron wrote:

htj wrote:You're going to want to try and knock out skyfire weapons before your flyers hit the board. Failing that, focus you flyers' firepower on any AA threats as soon as they enter play.

The flyer has better things to do than that.
Remember skyfire isn't a auto death for the flyer.

Just target it with your army before they arrive as said.

Well... yeah. Hence 'failing that.'


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tiger9gamer wrote:okay, and onto the bastions, will the drop podding terminators be able to take down a bastion by punching it really hard?or would they be able to go in and murder all the guys at CC.

and what things like vindicators? a strength 10 ap2 pie plate on a bastion sounds like it could be a good idea.I mean it is fluffy because demolisher cannons are for sieges.

A squad with a chainfist has a fairly good chance to know it out. Melta squads, as mentioned, are another nice choice. With 6th's new template rules, a Vindie could do quite a number on a building, but then, you might have targets that are more of a priority for its short ranged weapon.

So far my opponents have been devoting a lot of effort to taking out the quad gun. Too much, I think, although it has more than earned it's points back in all my 6th edition games. However, that makes it even more valuable to me as every time someone fires at it that is fewer shots at the tanks. So far against flyers it has taken down the Doom Scythe and watched as the Vendetta duel went to me.

Vanilla marines can't put Terminators in Drop Pods(aside from ICs in TDA) as its not a DT for them.


As for dealing with Skyfire.

Quadguns only have a 48" range. Depending on where the gun is you might be able to come in outside its range to avoid the Interceptor shot. Then next turn your Flyer can move up and smoke the gun emplacement.

Grey Templar wrote:Vanilla marines can't put Terminators in Drop Pods(aside from ICs in TDA) as its not a DT for them.


As for dealing with Skyfire.

Quadguns only have a 48" range. Depending on where the gun is you might be able to come in outside its range to avoid the Interceptor shot. Then next turn your Flyer can move up and smoke the gun emplacement.

blast it, there goes one plan. although I could do the same with an ironclad dreadnaught for less points (dropping behind enemy lines to take things out) so there is that idea.

The weapon I like to pick for my stormtalon is the lascannons, although I can try other weapons. what would be the best weapon for ground targets?

Tiger9gamer wrote:I know that there was a forum topic about how you will deal with flyers, but how will a player deal with all the skyfire weapons thats coming out? Especially the bastions with quad guns and all the other things, My flyer doesn't really feel safe enough.

There's a couple of terrain pieces and 1 unit that have Skyfire. Your flyer is fine. With most armies, you'll face 1 skyfire weapon max at this point.

If you are building some sort of flying circus list and you happen to run into an IG player fielding 9 Hydras and an Aegis line with a quad gun, well, then you may have an issue. Aside from that, your flyers are probably going to be difficult to engage.

Keep in mind you'll have a turn or two to mitigate or destroy an opponent's likely minimal AA capabilities, if they even exist at all, and your flyers can engage and destroy the AA weapons before they get a chance to respond.

if your on about the choice of getting terminators in there. i could suggest getting a squad of chosen with meltas to scout near by with an icon also so you could drop what ever next to them.

Vaktathi wrote:

Tiger9gamer wrote:I know that there was a forum topic about how you will deal with flyers, but how will a player deal with all the skyfire weapons thats coming out? Especially the bastions with quad guns and all the other things, My flyer doesn't really feel safe enough.

There's a couple of terrain pieces and 1 unit that have Skyfire. Your flyer is fine. With most armies, you'll face 1 skyfire weapon max at this point.

If you are building some sort of flying circus list and you happen to run into an IG player fielding 9 Hydras and an Aegis line with a quad gun, well, then you may have an issue. Aside from that, your flyers are probably going to be difficult to engage.

Keep in mind you'll have a turn or two to mitigate or destroy an opponent's likely minimal AA capabilities, if they even exist at all, and your flyers can engage and destroy the AA weapons before they get a chance to respond.

I am honestly more worried that the next forge world book will have a crud tone of AA guns that will rip apart my one storm talon.

I thought of some ways to get rid of a pesky AA gun so you have complete air supremacy:

iron clad dreadnaught in a drop pod with either a chainfist or a seismic hammer w/ melta gun and hunter killer missiles.

5 tactical terminators w/ assault cannon and chainfist

suicide melta in the form of a land speeder or sternguard squad

allied imperial guard artillery/ leman russ pie plates.

do these sound good?

Anything can work really, it's a T7 W2 model with at best a 4+ cover save, if you can glance a rhino a few times, you can kill the gun easily.

If I was really constantly worried about a particular AA emplacement I'd consider using a Dante-led melta group, or even gunslinger infernus pistols so long as I can get in nice and close, just wail on 'em.

Tiger9gamer wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Vanilla marines can't put Terminators in Drop Pods(aside from ICs in TDA) as its not a DT for them.


As for dealing with Skyfire.

Quadguns only have a 48" range. Depending on where the gun is you might be able to come in outside its range to avoid the Interceptor shot. Then next turn your Flyer can move up and smoke the gun emplacement.

blast it, there goes one plan. although I could do the same with an ironclad dreadnaught for less points (dropping behind enemy lines to take things out) so there is that idea.

The weapon I like to pick for my stormtalon is the lascannons, although I can try other weapons. what would be the best weapon for ground targets?

Typhoon Missile launcher.

It synergizes best with the Assault Cannon as both can hunt either vehicles or infantry. The lascannon turns it into a vehicle/MC hunter which are far less commen.

Versitility is the strength of the vanilla codex, you want to maximize it. Its why Typhoons are so good, they can kill vehicles and infantry without sacrificing anything.

okay, so thats 5 points extra, right? only problem I have is that it isnt twin-linked, so usually one hits while the other misses

and would it be worth taking an extra storm talon instead of 2 speeders? I dont want to do too much math, so I was planning on taking another gunship instead of one typhoon speeder and one HF/MM speeder.

also back on topic, what are other armies responses to taking out AA guns?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vaktathi wrote:Anything can work really, it's a T7 W2 model with at best a 4+ cover save, if you can glance a rhino a few times, you can kill the gun easily.

Wait a second, it's not armor? and can you pick it out from a squad surrounding it? or on top of a bastion?

Or pick up Belial and a Deathwing squad as allies and do a Deathwing Assault in your first turn.

Tiger9gamer wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Tiger9gamer wrote:I know that there was a forum topic about how you will deal with flyers, but how will a player deal with all the skyfire weapons thats coming out? Especially the bastions with quad guns and all the other things, My flyer doesn't really feel safe enough.

There's a couple of terrain pieces and 1 unit that have Skyfire. Your flyer is fine. With most armies, you'll face 1 skyfire weapon max at this point.

If you are building some sort of flying circus list and you happen to run into an IG player fielding 9 Hydras and an Aegis line with a quad gun, well, then you may have an issue. Aside from that, your flyers are probably going to be difficult to engage.

Keep in mind you'll have a turn or two to mitigate or destroy an opponent's likely minimal AA capabilities, if they even exist at all, and your flyers can engage and destroy the AA weapons before they get a chance to respond.

I am honestly more worried that the next forge world book will have a crud tone of AA guns that will rip apart my one storm talon.

I thought of some ways to get rid of a pesky AA gun so you have complete air supremacy:

iron clad dreadnaught in a drop pod with either a chainfist or a seismic hammer w/ melta gun and hunter killer missiles.

5 tactical terminators w/ assault cannon and chainfist

suicide melta in the form of a land speeder or sternguard squad

allied imperial guard artillery/ leman russ pie plates.

do these sound good?

if my understanding is correct even if a forgeworld model is "codex approved" you don't have to accept it. white dwarf units are different liek ork fliers or storm talons but some of the "codex approved" units are game breakers on a regular table .. i would justy say no to imperial armor outside apoc

Orly? Which units are "game breakers"? If you cut out all the super heavies/gargantuan, there really isnt anything more broken than some of the options in the codices.

edit: You don't HAVE to accept anything. You can refuse to play someone for any reason. Now, the rationality of such an action is certainly a valid question...