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Hi, im new to 6th edition and 40k.
i was playing with a friend and he 1 shotted my deff dread with overwatch.
it was pretty crazy lucky since i was about to start taring dat dread to bitz (had i managed to make the 2D6 charge). Since were new, im not sure if we did the rules right, which is what im interested in.
heres how it all went down.
- I declared charge on the spacewolf dread with my deffdread
- spacewolf fired assault cannon (4D6) and storm bolter (2D6) as snap shots and hit 2 with the assault cannon
- wolf rolled 2D6 for his weapons (adding modifiers after the roll, one was an exra D3 roll... for some fancy necklace), anyways, scored a penetrating hit with one of them (cos im armor 12).
- Then i rolled on the vehicle damage table and got a 5.. the assault cannon was AP2 so we added +1 and i went explodey..
was that a spectacular overwatch shot of awesome... and am i a noob.... orrrrr am i just a noob and did it completely wrong... i felt like the 3 hull points were pretty useless if i blow up in 1 shot from overwatch... anticlimax

Thats the way it works. HP makes it easier to "Glance a vehicle to Death" as it was once called b/c unless you had other modifiers you couldnt actually kill a vehicle through glancing hits until you peeled of every weapon, immobolized, and finally got one more destruction result. HP do nothing for you if you get, ahem, a penetration and then go boom.

Yep, that can happen with overwatch now

If you think thats nasty try Warp Rift psychic power, that causes D3 penetrating hits...if i roll well youre dead no matter what I roll on the damage chart!

The shot would NOT have been AP2, so would NOT get +1 on the chart.
Rending only grants AP2 on a Wound Roll, not an armour penetration roll. You don't roll to wound on vehicles.

Yep, the process was all right, though there was no point in him firing his Storm Bolter since it can't hurt the vehicle. Just one thing:

(adding modifiers after the roll, one was an exra D3 roll... for some fancy necklace)

The +D3 is because the Assault Cannon has Rending (and he must've rolled a 6 to penetrate), not because of a Wolf Tooth Necklace. This is the same rule that made the Assault Cannon AP2.

But yes, that was pretty damn lucky. A 1/6 chance to hit (for each shot), a 1/6 chance to penetrate, and a 1/3 chance to destroy? Not the kind of odds you'd bet on.

Edit: my mistake, I didn't realise that the AP2 was only from rolling 6s on To Wound rolls, so it shouldn't have been destroyed. See Grendel's post above.

Nope, everything was just fine. Two things to point out though:
- You only talk about 2d6, 3d6, etc if you actually add those dice together.
- The assault cannon has rending all by itself. The mark of the wulfen only works in close combat.

Blowing up a dread during overwatch is pretty unlikely, let allone with an assault cannon, so you friend simply got very lucky.

Good catch on the AP2 not being there Grendel - easy mistake to make, but indeed AP2 ONLY on to wound, NOT to armour penetrate.

thanks for clearing all that up for me.

@Jidmah - you are right. we didnt add those dice. we just counted them all as individual shots, i probably shudve written 1D6 x4 instead of 4D6.

we knew the storm bolter probbaly wouldnt penetrate. but it was funny to shoot it anyways

and yeah, super lucky! hahah.
thanks for pointing out that AP2 thing Grendel. we just assumed the bullets would be the same weather they were shot normally or overwatched.
The proper result is that i should have been immobilized then.

i just wasnt sure if hed get to shoot all his dreads guns for overwatch or just 1 snapshot.

Cheers guys!
Ork will be more careful with his fuel tank next time ...

simplexcity wrote:thanks for pointing out that AP2 thing Grendel. we just assumed the bullets would be the same weather they were shot normally or overwatched.

It's not about normal shooting vs Overwatch.
It's about wounding people vs damaging vehicles

ok, i just double checked the rulebook again.

on page 74 theres a vehicle damage table which says down the bottom that High AP weapons like AP1 & AP2 get a bonus +1 or +2 on modifier on the vehicle damage table.

so explodey was right?

simplexcity wrote:ok, i just double checked the rulebook again.

on page 74 theres a vehicle damage table which says down the bottom that High AP weapons like AP1 & AP2 get a bonus +1 or +2 on modifier on the vehicle damage table.

so explodey was right?

No.

Yes, AP does add to the roll.
No, Rending doesn't make the shot AP2 unless it's causing wounds.

ohhh. so assault cannon isnt AP2.. just the rending wounds are..
thanks for clearing that up. i was starting to get confused

simplexcity wrote:ok, i just double checked the rulebook again.

on page 74 theres a vehicle damage table which says down the bottom that High AP weapons like AP1 & AP2 get a bonus +1 or +2 on modifier on the vehicle damage table.

so explodey was right?

I think the point people are trying to make is that you only get ap2 on rending when you are wounding models.

You dont wound vehicles, the bonus from rending against vehicles is the +D3 dmg.

i get it now!
AND i went and had a look in the back of his codex and i see its actually AP4

DAT SNEAKY WOLF!

In addition, the owner of the deff shouldn't have been the one to roll on the damage chart, the shooting player does that

shock_at wrote:In addition, the owner of the deff shouldn't have been the one to roll on the damage chart, the shooting player does that

also good to know! thanks

Well, the Charge would have failed anyways, since the immobilized result would have prevented it. Then you'd have an immobile Deff Dread shouting curses at the damn wolves.

simplexcity wrote:i get it now!
AND i went and had a look in the back of his codex and i see its actually AP4

DAT SNEAKY WOLF!

He was probably under the same impression I was that rending counted as Ap2 against vehicles if it rended. It was unlikely that he was intentionally cheating.

No he probably knew. I've played people that forget rules for their advantage.

MJThurston wrote:No he probably knew. I've played people that forget rules for their advantage.

Just because you played against a few jerks doesn't mean his friend is one. As he said in the OP, they are both new to the game. Comments like this just distract from the issue.

nah its my best friend. we play and were both a bit fresh. he comes from fantasy background and i convinced him into 40k (didnt take much once he saw the space wolves)

so yeah, we just play friendly and did what we thought made sense at the time.
we just reeealy wanted to setup a battle our walkers since he just got his forgeworld dread together.

simplexcity wrote:
- I declared charge on the spacewolf dread with my deffdread
- spacewolf fired assault cannon (4D6) and storm bolter (2D6) as snap shots and hit 2 with the assault cannon
- wolf rolled 2D6 for his weapons (adding modifiers after the roll, one was an exra D3 roll... for some fancy necklace), anyways, scored a penetrating hit with one of them (cos im armor 12).
- Then i rolled on the vehicle damage table and got a 5.. the assault cannon was AP2 so we added +1 and i went explodey..
was that a spectacular overwatch shot of awesome... and am i a noob.... orrrrr am i just a noob and did it completely wrong... i felt like the 3 hull points were pretty useless if i blow up in 1 shot from overwatch... anticlimax

Ok,

1) You would only get one shot from Overwatch per model. So the Dread would only get one shot at BS 1.

2) The fancy neckless does nothing for the added roll. It would have to be rending with a wound/armor pen of 6.

3) You don't roll on the damage, he does. The assault cannon would only be ap 2 if he/you rolled the rending.

But it can happen but I don't think as easily as it did with you.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:1) You would only get one shot from Overwatch per model. So the Dread would only get one shot at BS 1.

You can fire more than one weapon in Overwatch. The rules put no restrictions on weapons fired, other than the reduced BS.

Interesting, thanks.