Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Between the Sisters of Battle updates, the new flyers coming out, and now the exclusive updates to Daemons in the next WD issue, it is becoming painful to watch as these rule additions slip on by new gamers and returning gamers. If you wanted to start a new army, your legally handicapped in picking up add-ons to current codices that only appear in limited White Dwarf runs or through obtaining an I-Pad and getting updates to digital codices through electronic mediums.

Do you think the most obvious solution would be to compile these rules into an end of year print run that while is fairly far into the future, it does at least allow gamers to pick up an addendum to a particular codex and now have the ability to refer to these without illegal copies?

Used to do that.

Then people got annoyed - so they said they would never put rules only in Whitedwarf (and if they did - they would also make them available from their website).

Probably will go back to doing White Dwarf Annuals/Chapter Approved compilations again if they keep up this pace though. Granted most of their effort is to drive subscriptions to their catalog - so they may not in order to get people to subscribe instead.

WarOne wrote:Do you think the most obvious solution would be to compile these rules into an end of year print run that while is fairly far into the future, it does at least allow gamers to pick up an addendum to a particular codex and now have the ability to refer to these without illegal copies?

Been there, done that. It was called Chapter Approved.

WarOne wrote:Between the Sisters of Battle updates, the new flyers coming out, and now the exclusive updates to Daemons in the next WD issue, it is becoming painful to watch as these rule additions slip on by new gamers and returning gamers. If you wanted to start a new army, your legally handicapped in picking up add-ons to current codices that only appear in limited White Dwarf runs or through obtaining an I-Pad and getting updates to digital codices through electronic mediums.

Do you think the most obvious solution would be to compile these rules into an end of year print run that while is fairly far into the future, it does at least allow gamers to pick up an addendum to a particular codex and now have the ability to refer to these without illegal copies?

Bet you it will be digital copies first before hard copy comes around such as Chapter Approved.

Games Workshop needs to squeeze every amount of money off of their sheeple that follows them blindly.

As far as the rest? Not sure, but what I can say in my area that a lot of people are pissed enough to leave the game all together. Not just 40 but the hobby.

Getting too expensive for the average person to play now these days.

Should they? Should is objective. As it is, they're making us fight over issues of a CATALOG so that we can see rules for the newest shiny things. One wishes they would just go the nicest possible route and post updated rules on their website, but as it is, we're still fighting with local shops to get the issues with the rules, but not the garbage issues that are nothing but adverts. This makes you buy their extremely highly priced subscription, and thus they make a profit. It's genius, really, even if it is in the most dick way possible. I would buy rule compilations on a yearly or maybe even twice a year. But it does also feel like we're paying a lot for models, so we feel like they (and here's that word again) should throw the rules up on their website for free. They could even go a different route and cut out the pictures and fluff for the web version, to draw you to printed version instead. But that makes too much sense.

I really hope they at least release the rules online. The only way to get the Sisters of Battle rules at this point is to find scans of them online, and it's been an entire year since that WD dropped. You can see they've been formatting all the WD painting guides like those in the How to Paint Citadel Miniatures book, probably with the intent of releasing a How to Paint Citadel Miniatures 2 book or something along those lines, or at least another iPad release. I hope they do something similar for collected rules, as it would only help the players and be easy for GW to put out. It would surely sell pretty well too, as not that many of us have subscriptions to WD these days.

If they're going to start putting rules in White Dwarf again (which god I hope they do), then yes.

It would make sense to definitely. Of course the best thing to do would be to also have some kind of downloadable version of the rules either simultaneously, or perhaps a little after, the WD rules are published. I know of people that wanted the rules for the current bunch of fliers, but couldn't get hold of the WD with them in, and therefore were put off from buying the kit (which isn't a terribly good state of affairs).

DarknessEternal wrote:If they're going to start putting rules in White Dwarf again (which god I hope they do), then yes.

Have you missed the Sisters, Flyers, upcoming Daemons...

It is a perfect way for them to make a little bit of change and erode a bit more of the goodwill they have left.

I would love a return of Chapter Approved.
I think in a perfect world they would have sorts of new rules in white dwarf, and then when the next month's issue was released they'd stick the rules from the last month online, and then once a year purge the website and stick the rules in a book.

Sean_OBrien wrote:
It is a perfect way for them to make a little bit of change and erode a bit more of the goodwill they have left.

Putting rules in White Dwarf erodes their goodwill? How does making the magazine worth buying (or closer to it) erode their goodwill? Unless, of course, you mean it erodes their goodwill not to compile the rules somewhere.

Because the White Dwarf now is a far cry from an actual useful purchase (even with rules ever quarter or so) - a lot of people resent having to buy it (or rather subscribe to it) to make sure they don't miss out. Since their print run on White Dwarf is actually smaller than their player base - this means that there is an artificially created demand on the issues which have rules versus the ones which pile up in the backs of hobby stores by the box full.

It erodes good will with both the consumer and the retailer. The consumer for being forced into a game of musical chairs (or an expensive subscription for a few pages of rules) and the retailer as they have an even more difficult time in determining how many issues of White Dwarf to bring in to satisfy customers and yet not get stuck with the back issues.

I'm not buying any more White Dwarfs.

If I miss out on some rules because they are only in those mags, then GW can just miss out on selling me the models, unless they look cool and are 'reasonably' priced of course.

I'd buy an iPad because they are cool, but I'm not paying more for a digital codex that updates than a paper one....madness!

They should post the White Dwarf rules that expands existing armies but isn't in a Codex, like the flyers rules, on their website as a PDF.

I still have my copy of the Blood Angels PDF codex 'from the June and July 2007 editions' that I printed off from GW's website before they got their own codex.

Well, the way I see it, if Gamesworkshop puts rules in WD, but without alternative means of obtaining them, then I'll just refuse to to play with or against those models unless the player using them has an official copy of the rules on hand.

Put simply I wont pay 8$ an issue for essentially a few shiny rules and a bunch of advertisements, if I wanted to pay through the nose to have product shoved down my throat I would subscribe to either Comic Books, or Playboy. Heck I would probably get more entertainment from the two anyhow.

Brother SRM wrote:

Sean_OBrien wrote:
It is a perfect way for them to make a little bit of change and erode a bit more of the goodwill they have left.

Putting rules in White Dwarf erodes their goodwill? How does making the magazine worth buying (or closer to it) erode their goodwill? Unless, of course, you mean it erodes their goodwill not to compile the rules somewhere.

The problem is that the quality of the magazine still hasn't got to anything like its former level. Putting rules into the magazine is an interesting idea in terms of getting (can I say forcing?) people to buy it, but I would much rather see a return of some journalistic quality as incentive for customers to buy the magazine instead.

Pacific wrote:
The problem is that the quality of the magazine still hasn't got to anything like its former level. Putting rules into the magazine is an interesting idea in terms of getting (can I say forcing?) people to buy it, but I would much rather see a return of some journalistic quality as incentive for customers to buy the magazine instead.

I understand it's not as good as it used to be. I have issues from as recent as 2006 that still blow most modern issues out of the water. But you don't think that adding rules is doing something to improve the magazine at all?
"Make WD useful, but not until I say so!"

No I agree! It's definitely a step in the right direction in terms of making people want to buy the magazine again, but its through the use of a stick rather than a carrot..

I'd love to see Chapter Approved come back and be a yearly compilation of the rules added in WD over that year.

They should release the rules in online articles attached to each army sections.

Of course they may very well not as GW is GW, so you can just find it fairly easily online.

WD add ons killed 3E...

In order to play a single game one would have to show up with the BRB, Codex and about 6 WD's.... and the other guy would have to do the same.... Then you would have to show your opponent all the rules etc... and it was tedious and slowed.

It got to the point that you would need around 40 lbs of text to play a game....

If you want to add something to an army. FAQ/Errata it... Everything else is pure BS.

Milisim wrote:WD add ons killed 3E...

In order to play a single game one would have to show up with the BRB, Codex and about 6 WD's.... and the other guy would have to do the same.... Then you would have to show your opponent all the rules etc... and it was tedious and slowed.

It got to the point that you would need around 40 lbs of text to play a game....

If you want to add something to an army. FAQ/Errata it... Everything else is pure BS.

I call BS. What were you playing that you needed more than a few pages from a white dwarf, or two, in addition to the 2 rulebooks you needed anyways ?

That's what photo copies, or chapter approved, was for.

What killed 3E was it was Blandhammer. ANYTHING they added to it was a step in the right direction.

God, things must have been awful before the internet when White Dwarf was the only source of new rules and stuff...

Oh. No.. wait... That's when it was a really good magazine.

When white dwarf stops being a catalogue and starts being a periodical, sure. If it's going to continue being a catalogue, absolutely bloody not.

Admittedly, if White Dwarf had rules every month, it would be worth picking up.

This months WD actually came with a little pamphlet that had all the rules/stats on the new Daemons, it wasn't in the main magazine itself. I found that quite useful.

There are still a number of Apoc formations that were never converted to PDF, so I don't think we'll be seeing available rules updates on the web site for those that missed out on the (rapid selling) WD issues that have the rules.

At best we'll see them in over-priced iOS only packages like those individual Warhammer Monster documents.

poda_t wrote:When white dwarf stops being a catalogue and starts being a periodical, sure. If it's going to continue being a catalogue, absolutely bloody not.

Thing is, you just know that if GW see this as a way of increasing WD circulation by putting rules in it that you need, without the need to improve the magazine at all, then they will do it for sure.

Jayce_The_Ace wrote:

poda_t wrote:When white dwarf stops being a catalogue and starts being a periodical, sure. If it's going to continue being a catalogue, absolutely bloody not.

Thing is, you just know that if GW see this as a way of increasing WD circulation by putting rules in it that you need, without the need to improve the magazine at all, then they will do it for sure.

and that's when I will pick up another game or another hobby, along with a fair number of others. Limited edition rules are not a good way to go.