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I hear from alot of players that each army has units that more or less totally worthless and have no reason to be there. why would a unit be in an army if it didn't have a purpose?

DE mandraks
DE Kheradruakh the Decapitator
Orkz Flash Gitz
Orkz Wierdboyz
Eldar Shining Spears

Do you mean why would it be in a codex if it had no purpose? Because playtesters gave the thumbs up to units they thought had some specialized potential, but it turns out to be too specialized, expensive and too unhelpful to be a good addition to an army list that wasn't made to lose.

A) as Cuddy mentioned they were meant for a role that something else actually did better

B) They became too much of a liability/weakness thanks to a newer codex/rules edition

C) Someone thought they were cool and added them, however they just sucked.

Exergy wrote:DE mandraks
DE Kheradruakh the Decapitator
Orkz Flash Gitz
Orkz Wierdboyz
Eldar Shining Spears

Weirdboyz are actually pretty usefull for footslogging list and Dakkajets.

Flash Gitz and Weirdboyz are no longer in the useless bin anymore.

Gitz now ignore cover and have a 50/50 chance of being AP3 or better, so while still pricey they can dish out the pain in this edition.

Weirdboyz are now a great HQ choice. They are the cheap (as are all the Ork vanilla HQ's) and as mentioned above they Weirdboy and Warphead give you a good chance at an extra WAAAAGH which makes Dakka Jets just incredible.

Also add to this the fact that the Big Mek with KFF is no longer the staple HQ choice and the Weirdboy gets another bump up the ladder.

Pyrovore.

There really is no such thing as a useless unit. Its just that some are not considered "viable" for competitive play and are therefore not used.

There are some of us, however, who still have fun and like to play some of these units. I myself use the wonderfully useless Dark Angels veteran squad and it really confuses people.

Fun!

salvadorjer wrote:Pyrovore.

Pyrovore has its uses. It is just overpriced and in a slot that has WAY better stuff in it.

Mandrakes are pretty useless though I will give you that one

Gloomfang wrote:

salvadorjer wrote:Pyrovore.

Pyrovore has its uses. It is just overpriced and in a slot that has WAY better stuff in it.

I don't count comitting suicide against a group of tac termies as useful and other than that i have yet to get them to EVER (even with luck) get their points back. However i do pick them for cityfights just because it's cool imagery to have a walking bile of acid with a heavy flamer incinerating sulking guardsmen/orks.

EDIT: if you found a good use for em by all means enlighten me i'd love to think better of them.

-Space Marines dont have any truly "useless" units, although Whirlwinds are pretty bad, but they have uses.
-Chaos Space Marines have Spawn. Chaos Spawn are horrible.
-IG have Penal Legion, also considered really bad.
-Nida have the Pyrovore, probably the worst "bad choice" in the game.
-DE have Madrakes, or whatever. Theyre pretty bad.
-CD have the not quite feared Beast of Nurgle.
-GK may not have any bad ones... Necrons have Tomb Blades? which arent bad, theyre just not as good as anything else in the codex.
-Wait! Necrons have Flayed ones!
The list goes on...

salvadorjer wrote:
EDIT: if you found a good use for em by all means enlighten me i'd love to think better of them.

Big use for them is spore them in next to a bastion or fortress and torch the units embarked in them. If a template weapon hits a fireport the unit embarked can be hit.

The other use is as a lane blocker. No one in there right mind would ever charge a unit with D3 S5 hits. Keep them out of Synapse and go to ground with them every turn. Also you might get lucky and get them to Rage and then if they get the charge 3A that ignore armor is not to bad in 6th.

I would take them more if they were 15pts less.

Scout Bikers, Mandraks, Guardian Jetbikes, Banshees, ...

The spore to bastion seems like a rather big points sink, however you are right i could see them camping an objective in some ruins, wall of death does seem like it would be rather effective.

Most of the time people say a unit is "useless" because they haven't found a way to use them.

I will admit however that Chaos Spawn for CSM are useless. completely.

They can tie up units before berserkers get there...sadly raptors or transports for zerkers do it better.

In the context of the GK codex, the Nemesis Dreadknight and Purgation squad aren't particularly good. Mainly because fourTL S8 shots is so much better than them it's pretty much no-contest for the slot. That's another thing that creates bad units, occupying the same force org slot as a unit that fills the same general role but does so better.

Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as a completely useless unit, but there are units that actively make your army worse. They do that by denaturing the core goal or strengths of your codex (e.g. banshees, overcosted melee unit in a shooting codex, Farsight restricting all the good units in the codex to 0-1) or consuming points you could've spent on something that does the same job but better (why get scout bikers when you can buy bikers with the same movement, access to melta, and skill 4).

Nobody has mentioned the Tyranid Pyrovore.

No, they will die before ever seeing combat. especially now with Overwatch. Your opponent controls where they go and they get shot and attacked before they can do anything at all. Even if they do manage to win a combat they cannot sweep the fleeing enemy.

He didn't ask for a list of useless units. He asked why there are useless units.

There are two answers:
1. Edition changes to rules negate what was previously useful.
2. Bad design.

salvadorjer wrote:The spore to bastion seems like a rather big points sink, however you are right i could see them camping an objective in some ruins, wall of death does seem like it would be rather effective.

Both are effective, but the are both point sinks.

Last week I put 3 in a Pod just because I wanted to see how they would do (I proxed my biovores). Dropped them in front of the enemy line. Confusion broke out and they were a huge distraction. They have a lot of wierd rules and they scare people. They ended up pouring WAY to much fire into them and it slowed down the main advance for a turn. Not the best use of 175pts, but fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

broodstar wrote:Nobody has mentioned the Tyranid Pyrovore.

Are you missing the 3-4 posts about if they are usefull or not?

I would like to offer a differing opinion on Chaos Spawn. Now that No Retreat no longer exists, a couple of them make for a cheap way to interrupt incoming assault troops if you're playing a shooty CSM army. Not quite so useful for protecting just one or two units as a counterattack, though, thanks to lack of speed, so they're only useful in the right list.

They actually got faster in 6th edition. SnP doesn't reduce your movement anymore. Although they're still just Infantry slow.

I know he didn't want a list, but I can't believe no one has said Ethereals or more importantly, Aun'Va

Some units would be useful with the right strategy that GW intended to be used, such as whirlwind support, but the units just either are a waste of points or too odd to be used effectively.

wuestenfux wrote:Guardian Jetbikes

/facepalm

Kitch102 jumps to the mandrake defense again!

In a nutshell: use 'em to tie up your opponents most worrisome gun(s) to ensure your boats make it to the opponents board edge. They can basically open up a whole new avenue of approach for you if used correctly.

I've used them against Tau like this to very good effect. Took them against nids too, though honestly forgot they were there and then couldn't catch up with anything

kitch102 wrote:Kitch102 jumps to the mandrake defense again!

In a nutshell: use 'em to tie up your opponents most worrisome gun(s) to ensure your boats make it to the opponents board edge. They can basically open up a whole new avenue of approach for you if used correctly.

I've used them against Tau like this to very good effect. Took them against nids too, though honestly forgot they were there and then couldn't catch up with anything

they might be ok against tau as they can actually beat tau in CC, but they cant beat guardsmen.

Sword Brethren used to be useful, even in 5th when people said they sucked. Now Furious Charge no longer grants bonus I and they lost their one good role, that of countercharging MEQ.