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hi all i might be getting some black templar off of a friend but i dont know what to do becasue bt dont seem very competitive so should i use them as vanilla marines.

thanks in advance for any help. o

I'm predicting that within a year, BT will be vanilla marines.

I use both (though not the same models), and BT are still competitive.

My vote would be a yes. Anyone that wants to claim an army with a mandatory HQ that has to challenge but can't win a challenge against most for the life of him is competitive needs to go back to sleep, no offence.

Lobukia wrote:I'm predicting that within a year, BT will be vanilla marines.

And why would that be?

But on topic, I think you should just wait until BT get a new Codex or to use them as Vanilla Marines. BT can also be extremely competitive, you know.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Lobukia wrote:I'm predicting that within a year, BT will be vanilla marines.

And why would that be?

But on topic, I think you should just wait until BT get a new Codex or to use them as Vanilla Marines. BT can also be extremely competitive, you know.

Every other variant Codex got their own pages in the BRB's model showcase, us Templars just got 3 pictures as part of vanilla marines.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:
Lobukia wrote:
I'm predicting that within a year, BT will be vanilla marines.

And why would that be?

But on topic, I think you should just wait until BT get a new Codex or to use them as Vanilla Marines. BT can also be extremely competitive, you know.


Every other variant Codex got their own pages in the BRB's model showcase, us Templars just got 3 pictures as part of vanilla marines

I thought the same thing when I first flicked through the BRB.
They could have fleshed out the BT section quite well anyway with Sword Bretheren, an LRC as well as the pictures they included.
And if they were to lose their codex status I would carry on using them as BT not vanilla marines

Having to use Black Templars as a "vanilla" codex chapter isn't really all that crazy, seeing as that's all they used to be. It wasn't until after the Codex Armageddon in 3rd edition that they became an army on their own.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:My vote would be a yes. Anyone that wants to claim an army with a mandatory HQ that has to challenge but can't win a challenge against most for the life of him is competitive needs to go back to sleep, no offence.

EC munches through MEQ. We have HQs and elites that can pound through tougher stuff. Im still undefeated so......wake up.

Black Templars are still a great army. We have an old codex, so points are cheaper on some models, or we have special abilities that vanilla marines cannot get.

I would play them as vanilla marines, and wait untill the new codex comes out.

Or dip your feet in now, and play them as BT. Its a fun army.

Play what you like. I like the imagery and tactics of BT. Screaming space knights that prefer to run at your face with chainswords. I dont car if theyre competitive or not; if you want that then go play one of the cheeseball fanboi armys. You want bragging rights? Play BT.

AlmightyWalrus wrote: Every other variant Codex got their own pages in the BRB's model showcase, us Templars just got 3 pictures as part of vanilla marines.

Yeah, but they have stated that
1. There will never be "squatting" again, even if the BT are not a race on their own.
2. Phil Kelly has been confirmed to be writing their new Codex.

I noticed that as well, and thought how weird it was. Still, it can be explained by the obvious fact that they are bringing out DA as the new Ultramarines. There are tons of pics related to them, lots of artwork, an upcoming novel in November, I think and a confirmed Codex coming up plus they will be in the new AOBR set. They probably wanted to focus more on them ,as they are the least played Marine Variant out there. Tbh, if they would remove some chapter it would be DA, since there is little to no difference between them and vanilla Marines.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:
1. There will never be "squatting" again, even if the BT are not a race on their own.

Not squatting, we can still use our models for the Vanilla book.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:
2. Phil Kelly has been confirmed to be writing their new Codex.

So has Mat Ward and Cruddace. Nobody has any evidence of who it really is.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Not squatting, we can still use our models for the Vanilla book.

But that would be squatting if they made our book invalid and no longer usable in tournaments as its own separate book. Sure, we could use the same models but the special structure of our army would disappear. No more 20-man Initiate/Neophyte blobs, no more Vows, no more Empy's champions with special rules, no more Grimaldus or Helbrecht. Sure they could include all the ICs and unit types in the C:SM, but I highly doubt they would. They would not see that much trouble for a single chapter, a fact which would make all BT players rage and they would lose customers. I for one would not continue the hobby if my favourite army simply got retconned to being a Codex Chapter.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:So has Mat Ward and Cruddace. Nobody has any evidence of who it really is.

Matt Ward and Cruddace rumors were trashed, I think. Something about Phil Kelly "insisting to write them so he could treat them right."

Ive said it a hundred times......BT was the main faction in Dark Millenium Online (like BR for DoW, UM for Space Marine). If that game took off you were probably likely to see a big BT push on the table. Possibly would have been in the same position as DA are now. But the game went vaporware and BT is relegated to back burner until they get sorted out. Keep buying and supporting them and let GW know we give a gak!!!

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:So has Mat Ward and Cruddace. Nobody has any evidence of who it really is.

Matt Ward and Cruddace rumors were trashed, I think. Something about Phil Kelly "insisting to write them so he could treat them right."

No, really, nobody knows. It's just unsubstantiated rumors at this point.

I agree with Brother Ambrosius, and d3m01iti0n on this. BT wont be going away any time soon. If anything, a new FAQ soon, and then maybe by 2013 a codex. BT are still very unique to have our own codex. But only time will tell with this one.

On a side note for d3m01iti0n, I heard that now DMO (dark millenium online) is going to just be a single player game, but this was a roumor... so I am sure the truth wont be told until an officeal press release.

A Black Templars codex could function just fine as a section rolled into the Codex: Space marines book. Back in the Armageddon Codex all the rules needed to make Black Templars interesting on their own fit on 4 pages, same as Salamanders.

A Black Templars codex could function just fine as a section rolled into the Codex: Space marines book. Back in the Armageddon Codex all the rules needed to make Black Templars interesting on their own fit on 4 pages, same as Salamanders.

If that is the case... then Black Templars, Space Wolves, Blood Angles, Dark Angles would all be rolled back in to one codex. They are all close combat armies, and have about the same special abilities as each others.

There is no reason to suspect that they will be rolled in right now, is there? Because all I have heard is roumors about how people think Templars are not that different and should be in the Space Marine Codex.

Heres a question: What was the first space marine codex that came out that was not combined with the normal codex?

J99Pwrangler wrote:Heres a question: What was the first space marine codex that came out that was not combined with the normal codex?

Codex: Space Wolves.

Actually, on second thought, that was out before the Codex: Ultramarines, so it'd have to be Codex: Ultramarines.

J99Pwrangler wrote:

A Black Templars codex could function just fine as a section rolled into the Codex: Space marines book. Back in the Armageddon Codex all the rules needed to make Black Templars interesting on their own fit on 4 pages, same as Salamanders.

If that is the case... then Black Templars, Space Wolves, Blood Angles, Dark Angles would all be rolled back in to one codex. They are all close combat armies, and have about the same special abilities as each others.

There is no reason to suspect that they will be rolled in right now, is there? Because all I have heard is roumors about how people think Templars are not that different and should be in the Space Marine Codex.

Heres a question: What was the first space marine codex that came out that was not combined with the normal codex?

Space wolves, what's the point of this question ?

Space wolves, what's the point of this question ?

I was just wondering, I was not sure what was the first chapter that branched off from normal Codex Marine.

I do aploigize that this topic went way off subject.

Play what you want-If you feel like running them as codex marines, do so. However, BT drew me to finally start playing rather than browsing, and I find them fun regardless of whether I win or not. I wish they would switch RZ back to run forward if you fail though.

As others have said, I don't think there will be a squatting of the BT since it has a huge fanbase, and sells tactical squads at effectively double the price with the (IMO absolutely worth it) BT sprue. That, and I'm fairly certain if that happened, us BT players would figure out how to make a LRC and drive it to GW's doorstep :p or ragequit entirely. As many have stated on BT related topics, players who play the army have been dedicated enough to stick with it

Off topic, @Ambrosius, what is that artwork from? 've. got it as a screensaver, but don't know the source.

J99Pwrangler wrote:
If that is the case... then Black Templars, Space Wolves, Blood Angles, Dark Angles would all be rolled back in to one codex.

I would prefer this. One big flexible marine codex. You would chooce few traits or such for your army to represent different focuses of different chapters.

Sadly, this will never happen, as it is more profitable for GW to sell the books separately. However, this doesn't still mean they wouldn't squish Black Templars. If they think their own book wouldn't sell well enough, they might well roll them back into the vanilla marine book.

Does anyone remember how BT were in the Codex Armageddon? I have impression that they were not that divergent back then, but I might be misremembering.

BTNeophyte wrote:Off topic, @Ambrosius, what is that artwork from? 've. got it as a screensaver, but don't know the source.

You mean my Sigismund avatar? I found it when I was doing research, it can be found from Warhammer 40k wiki.

Crimson wrote:

J99Pwrangler wrote:
If that is the case... then Black Templars, Space Wolves, Blood Angles, Dark Angles would all be rolled back in to one codex.

I would prefer this. One big flexible marine codex. You would chooce few traits or such for your army to represent different focuses of different chapters.

No. Just no.

They are just to divergent to be rolled into one

redkommando wrote:
No. Just no.

They are just to divergent to be rolled into one

Well, I advocated earlier that Blood Angels should be rolled into standard marine codex. And Dark Angels would certainly be just okay with few extra rules on top of vanilla stuff. I agree that Wolves and BT are more divergent and integrating them might be more hassle than its worth, but it might still be possible. What you feel are the most important things that set BT apart from codex marines rules wise?

Back on topic.

If you get the models and they are kitted out as BT go ahead and use them that way. Templars have the vow that makes them +1 strength for minus 1 initiative looknow all you marines have relic blades on the charge. YAY!

captain collius wrote:Back on topic.

If you get the models and they are kitted out as BT go ahead and use them that way. Templars have the vow that makes them +1 strength for minus 1 initiative looknow all you marines have relic blades on the charge. YAY!

Ehm, no? We don't have Furious Charge, that's Blood Angels. Furthermore, that Vow doesn't stack with FC anyway. Relic blades are also AP3, as opposed to the AP- of CCWs. Finally, losing 1I means we would strike after MEQ, which is why no one serious ever takes that Vow.

BT simply needs an update, a little rule tweaking, and perhaps some new units and they will do just fine. Im sure were headed that direction.

d3m01iti0n wrote:BT simply needs an update, a little rule tweaking, and perhaps some new units and they will do just fine. Im sure were headed that direction.

Agreed, preferrably tweaks and updates to make us better at CC than shooting.