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 Kriswall wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So much for the hopes of Eldar being toned down to be on balance with everyone else

Pick one:

1) These articles are puff pieces with no information.
2) The way they word this means everything is broken!

If everything is broken then the game will finally be balanced.

...but not fun to play?

It was a joke.

Seriously though, we're not seeing full rules or stats for most things, so even hearing "mortal wounds" doesn't really do much to shake me. I'm withholding my freak outs for when the game actually launches.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Youn wrote:
My eldar army has 10 banshees and 10 Striking Scorpions in the collection along with the exarch and pheonix lord for each. As they used to be really good in 2nd edition when I played them.


Mantiblasters R3" S3 Type: Pistol 1 AP- Mortal Wounds

That would allow them to fire during the shooting phase before they pile into close combat. It would also make them extremely deadly as the BS of striking scorpion should make it so they hit on a 3+.

Mandiblasters seem to be a melee weapon that goes off at the start of the fight phase (likely out of sequence of unit activations).

2) The way they word this means everything is broken!

If everything is broken then the game will finally be balanced.

(insert faction here) is the most broken faction now.*

*Conditions apply. See points for details. And actual rules.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

2) The way they word this means everything is broken!

If everything is broken then the game will finally be balanced.

(insert faction here) is the most broken faction now.*

*Conditions apply**. See points for details. And actual rules.

**If conditions don't apply please see your nearest Inquisitor for questioning.

Daedalus81 wrote:

2) The way they word this means everything is broken!

If everything is broken then the game will finally be balanced.

(insert faction here) is the most broken faction now.*

*Conditions apply. See points for details. And actual rules.

Let's see if the Tau article can draw the claim even faster than Eldar.

text removed.


Reds8n

 JohnU wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

2) The way they word this means everything is broken!

If everything is broken then the game will finally be balanced.

(insert faction here) is the most broken faction now.*

*Conditions apply. See points for details. And actual rules.

Let's see if the Tau article can draw the claim even faster than Eldar.

Seeing as people are still claiming melee must be DOA, I'm sure the feeling is already brewing deep in their souls.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 nintura wrote:

BWAHAHAHA. Banshee's being used in 7th. Take that to the Eldar FB group and tell them that. Be prepared for some salt and to be laughed out of the room however.

See again how the internet does not equate to people actually playing.

Many of the folks in Eldar FB groups claim that scatter laser jetbikes are "the only counter" to Grav-Centurions, for example.

The internet is a much larger sample size then your personal play group by far. What makes you the expert on what is and is not played?

Q: Hello new(tm) games workshop, i'd like to ask a badly worded question about whether you'll answer this question and if you do do so will this question be answered? Also if you're doing an article on points values could you tell us how many points my personal favourite, the haruspex, will cost. (How can you not love that face?)
A: Hello, Peter - we'd like to provide a suitably vague yet teasing response about being more than happy to answer your question.

I love this. And the "Necron Profile" one

Ugh I want Dark Eldar next. Or Necrons. If the Tau articles comes up I might have to bust out the flame wars shield again.

tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Seeing as Mandiblasters likely have a weapon profile, it sure is.

But again--you know this.

How hard is it for you to grasp that so far no mortal wound whatsoever cares one whif about T. If mortal wound hits it's that.

In AoS, sure, but we haven't seen that it's the case in 40k yet. All we know is you can't get normal (armour/invul) saves against Mortal Wounds. It could be they still need to roll to wound but then you don't get saves. Some mortal wounds could even be triggered by the to-wound rolls (Shuriken weapons for example may do Mortal Wounds on a to-wound roll of a 6). Let's not pretend to be experts on a game system that isn't out yet just because it shares some things with AoS. The two systems are not identical, and pretending that one must work that way because the other does is a bit silly.

Also, do we need to really start calling people White Knights for not assuming that the system is a carbon copy of AoS?

tneva82 wrote:

Note how neither cares about T...You just proved my point. Good job!

Ah well. Pointless trying to arque with GW white knight who thinks GW can do no wrong. GW decides autogun causes mortal wounds. "Absolutely logical! That's how they have always been!"

Does that make you a GW Black Knight who connects dots to information that doesn't exist?

Daedalus81 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Note how neither cares about T...You just proved my point. Good job!

Ah well. Pointless trying to arque with GW white knight who thinks GW can do no wrong. GW decides autogun causes mortal wounds. "Absolutely logical! That's how they have always been!"

Does that make you a GW Black Knight who connects dots to information that doesn't exist?

"It's only a flesh wound!"

 ClockworkZion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Seeing as Mandiblasters likely have a weapon profile, it sure is.

But again--you know this.

How hard is it for you to grasp that so far no mortal wound whatsoever cares one whif about T. If mortal wound hits it's that.

In AoS, sure, but we haven't seen that it's the case in 40k yet. All we know is you can't get normal (armour/invul) saves against Mortal Wounds. It could be they still need to roll to wound but then you don't get saves. Some mortal wounds could even be triggered by the to-wound rolls (Shuriken weapons for example may do Mortal Wounds on a to-wound roll of a 6). Let's not pretend to be experts on a game system that isn't out yet just because it shares some things with AoS. The two systems are not identical, and pretending that one must work that way because the other does is a bit silly.

Also, do we need to really start calling people White Knights for not assuming that the system is a carbon copy of AoS?

I agree that there will probably be some "triggered" mortal wounds. On a hit or wound roll of a '6' for instance, but we do know that standard Mortal Wounds do not require a "to-wound" roll, per the Smite power previewed earlier. It just causes d3 Mortal wounds.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So much for the hopes of Eldar being toned down to be on balance with everyone else

Pick one:

1) These articles are puff pieces with no information.
2) The way they word this means everything is broken!

If everything is broken then the game will finally be balanced.

Works for Warmachine/Hordes!

 coblen wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 nintura wrote:

BWAHAHAHA. Banshee's being used in 7th. Take that to the Eldar FB group and tell them that. Be prepared for some salt and to be laughed out of the room however.

See again how the internet does not equate to people actually playing.

Many of the folks in Eldar FB groups claim that scatter laser jetbikes are "the only counter" to Grav-Centurions, for example.

The internet is a much larger sample size then your personal play group by far. What makes you the expert on what is and is not played?

Than my personal play group..... that's about 20 people. This is just one eldar group:

https://imgur.com/a/8sBaT

Yeah, that's 4,082 members that play Eldar. Also, check the eldar sub-sections of this forum, that I also frequently habit. There's all those people too, and they all agree. Banshee's suck in 7th.

tneva82 wrote:


Ah well. Pointless trying to arque with GW white knight who thinks GW can do no wrong. GW decides autogun causes mortal wounds. "Absolutely logical! That's how they have always been!"

There's a big difference between people being "white knights" and people who are just withholding judgment until more information is revealed. I keep seeing people claim "you just think GW is perfect so you don't see the flaw" but I just think you guys are getting too worked up about balance when we don't know enough yet. Why whine and complain about things before you've even played a single game let alone know all the rules that will affect army balance in game.

So what, maybe they do get lots of mortal wounds. If they cost a lot of points then they'll be great against armies like Thousand Sons and terrible against armies like Orks.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Seeing as Mandiblasters likely have a weapon profile, it sure is.

But again--you know this.

How hard is it for you to grasp that so far no mortal wound whatsoever cares one whif about T. If mortal wound hits it's that.

In AoS, sure, but we haven't seen that it's the case in 40k yet. All we know is you can't get normal (armour/invul) saves against Mortal Wounds. It could be they still need to roll to wound but then you don't get saves. Some mortal wounds could even be triggered by the to-wound rolls (Shuriken weapons for example may do Mortal Wounds on a to-wound roll of a 6). Let's not pretend to be experts on a game system that isn't out yet just because it shares some things with AoS. The two systems are not identical, and pretending that one must work that way because the other does is a bit silly.

Also, do we need to really start calling people White Knights for not assuming that the system is a carbon copy of AoS?

I agree that there will probably be some "triggered" mortal wounds. On a hit or wound roll of a '6' for instance, but we do know that standard Mortal Wounds do not require a "to-wound" roll, per the Smite power previewed earlier. It just causes d3 Mortal wounds.

We don't "know" that because the Smite power still relies on triggering a certain effect to gain Mortal Wounds (rolling over 10 on the psychic test):


Plus since when has the abilities of a single anything been proof of how a core mechanic works? By that logic Mortal Wounds don't roll to hit either since the psychic power is an autohit (likely a Witchfire style power, only, you know, actually good). There is nothing that has been shown or said by GeeDubs that Mortal Wounds don't roll to wound.

That looks like it does mortal wounds by default....

 nintura wrote:
That looks like it does mortal wounds by default....

Right - his point still stand about rolling to hit though.

I wouldn't worry about Mandiblasters. Whilst Mortal Wounds skip to wound and save rolls, there's typically still some form of roll to hit, or the number of Mortal Wounds in randomised. At least going on AoS.

Plus, we've got extremely limited information, so no need to freak out or judge based on what we've got.

As others have said, Mandiblasters may only affect units with the Infantry keyword. It may be a 5 or a 6 to cause that Mortal Wound. And for balance, it could be various units with Jump Packs gain a similar Mortal Wound mechanic in place of the current Hammer of Wrath (quite possible, because having a Jet-Propelled Astartes in full power armour landing on you strikes me as a regularly and reliably fatal interface for most Infantry, no?)

Daedalus81 wrote:

 nintura wrote:
That looks like it does mortal wounds by default....

Right - his point still stand about rolling to hit though.

Maybe, but I'm referencing this:

We don't "know" that because the Smite power still relies on triggering a certain effect to gain Mortal Wounds (rolling over 10 on the psychic test):

 nintura wrote:

 coblen wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 nintura wrote:

BWAHAHAHA. Banshee's being used in 7th. Take that to the Eldar FB group and tell them that. Be prepared for some salt and to be laughed out of the room however.

See again how the internet does not equate to people actually playing.

Many of the folks in Eldar FB groups claim that scatter laser jetbikes are "the only counter" to Grav-Centurions, for example.

The internet is a much larger sample size then your personal play group by far. What makes you the expert on what is and is not played?

Than my personal play group..... that's about 20 people. This is just one eldar group:

https://imgur.com/a/8sBaT

Yeah, that's 4,082 members that play Eldar. Also, check the eldar sub-sections of this forum, that I also frequently habit. There's all those people too, and they all agree. Banshee's suck in 7th.

Bumshees are primarily rubbish because their much vaunted masks don't do their sodding job when charging into cover, and they carry no grenades because reasons

Mortal wounds are not that bad actually.

In AoS they got a bit out of hand, but nothing major.

In a game where you have mortal wounds, the cost per wound of a model becomes an important parameter. No matter how much you load your char with upgrades, you know that a certain number of mortal wounds will down it.

It balances the game, by creating a mechanic that punishes the over upgrading.

tneva82 wrote:
How hard is it for you to grasp that so far no mortal wound whatsoever cares one whif about T. If mortal wound hits it's that.

Yet we've seen numerous instances where a 'To Wound' roll of a 6 causes a Mortal Wound instead of a normal Wound. Mandiblasters could very well be the same. Miss your 'To Hit' roll or don't roll a 6 on your 'To Wound' roll, no Mortal Wounds.

 nintura wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 nintura wrote:
That looks like it does mortal wounds by default....

Right - his point still stand about rolling to hit though.

Maybe, but I'm referencing this:

We don't "know" that because the Smite power still relies on triggering a certain effect to gain Mortal Wounds (rolling over 10 on the psychic test):

You're right, I got that part wrong because I started to type my post before I went to pull the actual image.

Point is that if we want to assume that you don't roll to wound because of the Smite power, then by the same logic Mortal Wounds don't roll to hit either.

It's the specific mechanics of one power, not the actual core rule of how the game works that we're seeing. Using one data point to draw a conclusion on the big picture is a poor use of logic.

So is switching D3 to D6 not gaining Mortal Wounds?

Not terribly well expressed, but I think that's what he meant, given we're discussing triggers.

Is there any word yet on Gauss, Tesla, or (most importantly)Reanimation Protocols?

Nope!

Spoletta wrote:
Mortal wounds are not that bad actually.

In AoS they got a bit out of hand, but nothing major.

In a game where you have mortal wounds, the cost per wound of a model becomes an important parameter. No matter how much you load your char with upgrades, you know that a certain number of mortal wounds will down it.

It balances the game, by creating a mechanic that punishes the over upgrading.

"Boyz before toys" is a mantra that works for pretty much every army.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Mortal wounds are not that bad actually.

In AoS they got a bit out of hand, but nothing major.

In a game where you have mortal wounds, the cost per wound of a model becomes an important parameter. No matter how much you load your char with upgrades, you know that a certain number of mortal wounds will down it.

It balances the game, by creating a mechanic that punishes the over upgrading.

"Boyz before toys" is a mantra that works for pretty much every army.

I like.