Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I don't have thw IG Codex, and keep toying with the idea of adding them as allies to my marines, can anyone help me out with answers to the following to save me having to ebay the codex for now?

1 - HQ's, what are the basic options like? Insanely customisable when it comes down to kit? Fun? Models with lots of options on the sprue, or plenty of conversion opportunities?
2 - This may be a stupid question, but do HWS take up troops or heavy support sections? I feel stupid for asking, though if anyones liable to take big guns as standard, its the Guard
3 - What cool special rules do they have? I've heard about the HQ's being able to dish out orders but don't know anything specific.

I suppose really, I'm just asking you to sell me on the cool points of the IG. I'd want a mass of tanks to sit back and pound the hell out of the enemy until my marines drop pod in to the thick of it, then squads of elysian drop troops pelt it across the sky and join in with some close fire support, so anything you can tell me that'd help chieve this would be awesome.

Thanks

1. CCS is the main, staple HQ, and it has access to just about every option available to guard. Issues orders that can win games for guard, and have numerous special characters to make orders better, make the squad more choppy, etc.

2. HWS count as troops as a part of an infantry platoon.

3. We roll entire bags of dice in one shooting phase. Aside from Commissar Yarrick, who I have no experience with, not a lot of crazy rules.

Great army to collect, plenty of variability, and though numerous, it's quite easy to paint.

Agreed, ccs are really good at bs 4 and up to 4 melta or plasma is nice. the 12" range for 2 orders a turn is fun and you can't go wrong taking advisors like astropath and officer of the fleet to help your reserves and hurt theirs.

You can also take a primaris psyker as an hq with telepathy coupled with a psyker battle squad. The battle squad has a 36" ability that reduces the ld of the target unit by as many psykers in the unit to a minimum of 2 then you can fly in a primaris to finish the now ld 2 squad with his primaris power for telepathy making that same unit roll ld on 3d6 subtracting their ld so you will do 7-8 no armor save wounds on average.

The best units in the dex are for sure veterans for troops - you can take 3 special weapons per squad at bs 4 for something like 100 points with 3 meltas for 50 more you get a chimera to shield you. for fast attack you must take vendettas at minimum 2, 3 is ideal though unless you want to run an air cav list with 6-9.

The russ is a staple as well as the manticore or basilisk if you want a cheaper pie plate option.

Epic stuff, cheers gents.

I'm seeing these guys as being my heavy hitters (if I decide to go for it, which I probably will), so barely anything but long range weaponry, maybe storm troopers in valkyries to help with the clean up.

Initially I was going to use them as allies, though looking at the allies force org I'd probably do better to have the IG as my main force so I can really hit home with the numbers and keep my SoO as the allies, as I think they max out the allies matrix as they are now.

So, forgive me this next question as I have a feeling that its something every wargamer should be born knowing, but what makes CREEEEEEEED so great?

Creed is a little overhyped imo, but he is very good at what he does. He can issue 4 orders rather than 2 and at double range, and he has his own special order that makes a squad Fearless and Furious Charge and is devastating combined with a big blob with lots of Power Mauls. Infantry Platoons are the basic troops choice, consisting of a command squad, who are great at loading up with 4 special weps and a Chimera and suiciding into something important since they're so cheap. You'll also need 2-5 infantry squads, each of which can take a Heavy Weapon team and a Special Weapon, and you can take up to five HWS of three teams each and 2 special weapons squads of 6 guys and 3 special weps. You can also combine Infantry Squads together to make what are know as blobs, huge squads that can take up to 10 Power Weapons through Sergeants and Commissars, although this quickly become very expensive. It can make for a remarkably good CC unit though, especially in combination with a priest.

Creed can also give any unit Scouts, so you could theoretically outflank a Warlord titan with him (hence CREEEEEEEEEEED, from what his opponents shout when 2500 points of adamanium appear on their flank), although obviously he won't be doing that in your average game. You might, however, choose to outflank, say, a squadron of Leman Russ Demolishers, offering some interesting tactical options. He costs almost as much as 20 guys though, and isn't actually good at anything besides giving orders, so he's only really worthwhile in a foot list where his orders will really make a difference.

Almost all Guard vehicles can be squadroned, although this is only worthwhile to fit more in. The Manticore must be fielded on its own, but packs more punch than some Ordnance Batteries anyway. D3 S10 Large Blasts will make a mockery of parking lots, although the AP leaves something to be desired. The Deathstrike is the most ridiculous fire magnet you will ever see, BUT if it manages to fire early on (It has a rule called 'T minus 5 minutes to launch, and counting' which means you have to roll to fire it) it will literally wipe armies off the map. Potentially a bigger blast than you'll see in Apocalypse, the best strength and AP a weapon can have and no cover means anything it hits WILL die, but like I said, it won't usually get to fire because it's still really just a Chimera chassis with 105pts of "shoot me" stapled to the top.

The Ordnance battery has four options: The cheap, reliable Griffon, which can re-roll scatter and is very inexpensive but not the strongest weapon in the world, the classic Basilisk, which has an obtuse maximum range and a good mix of characteristics all-round, but doesn't really excell at anything. The Medusa basically mounts a longer-ranged Demolisher Cannon, but that includes the inability to fire indirectly, which means it doesn't usually last very long. It can also take Bastion Breacher shells for 2D6 armour pen, but loses blast size if it does. The Collosus has MEQ-breaking AP and ignores cover, but doesn't have the strength to hurt vehicles.

I didn't cover every unit, but Artillery is retty much my favourte part of the Guard, so there's a bit of a summary.

That's awesome, thanks Vampire Hunter. Outflanking a Titan eh? I'm sold Wouldn't have thoguht you'd need to with with Titan weapons though, I always assumed they had ridiculous range and were all about sit at the back of the board and get some friends round to help you roll the ridiculous amount of dice you have for 1 turns worth of shooting...

I've often wondered what the deal is with the manticore; thanks for clarifying. Whats the roll needed? Or is it a 6 on turn 1, 5 on turn 2 etc? Can it just be put in cover behind some buildings and lob over them or does it need los to the target? Artillery's a big thing for me too when it comes to the Guard - I just get that image of hundreds of men throwing their all in to raining death from miles away. There's a scene in Windtalkers that fits that image perfectly.

So what are the orders that you can give? I've heard of frfsrf, I guess that's for rerolls and / or extra shots / imprved BS?

Really appreciate your time guys, thanks for all the info

Just on Army Builder (without a codex, so I'm kinda firing blind here); what's the best unit to put in a Valkyrie for close fire support and eventual CC? I was thinking an IPS, before I realised they're about 25 models base, and I guess that I can't split them off in to smaller groups?

So my options, as I see it, would be Storm Troopers or Veterans. Stats wise the ST's are ever so slightly more appealing with a 4+ armour save instead of a 5+, though at 85 points for 5 models before upgrades it seems that a squad of 10 vets with grenadiers is a better & more cost effective option.

I'm looking at packing 3 melta guns in there, and grav chute assaulting them within range of their target. Next question, lasguns or shotguns? I dont recall the new rapid fire rules if I'm honest, so need help figuring out if a guaranteed 20 shots is better than the lasguns with otherwise identical stats. Bearing in mind of course that if at 24" range they'll still get shot to hell, so I'm thinking being within 12", shotgunning and assaulting would be a better option for charge bonuses. Add Sergeant Bastonne for the extra orders and a Lord Commissar with PP and PF and we start to look... expensive, damn that's 430 points for 12 guys and a jet! Getting carried away there Kitch... Another option for this unit is a Ministorum Priest with eviscerator for anti TEQ attacks (albeit only 2 at WS 3).

God damn the guard don't like CC do they...!

Can you put Ogryns in a Valkyrie?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Where do Kasrkin fit in to all of this - they're not on army builder?

Cheers

I might have explained this poorly, but the Manticore and Deathstrike are not the same . They share a kit though, which is probably pretty confusing. The Manticore is roughly one and a half Ravagers in cost, and comes with four rockets, each of which dispenses D3 S10 Large Blasts. The AP isn't quite enough to bust Marine armour, though, so they're best off as an anti-vehicle unit. There's no restriction on firing other than the fact you can only launch 1 rocket per turn.

The Deathstrike is the same basic cost, although it could well end up more expensive since you may want to go with camo netting for better cover and such. It can't fire turn one, and each turn after must roll a 6 to fire. However, it gets a +1 bonus for each turns it's been on the field, but a -1 if it's currently shaken/stunned and a -1 for each time "Weapon Destroyed" is allocated to the missile. A nautral six always fires. It creates a blast between 8-12" in diametre that ignores cover with Railgun strength and AP.

Both the Deathstrike and Manticore are indirect fire weapons, but they're very juicy targets for any fast/deep striking elements due to relatively high cost, low armour and massive damage potential, so you'll either have to contribute a lot of forces to defending them or make sure there are plenty more juicy targets on the field and hop-e they live. The Manticore is better at this since it can do a huge amount of damage in just a couple of turns, but with good rolling the Deathstrike could quite easily wipe out half of an army at around 1500, IF it can fire early enough so the enemy is still fairly bunched up and doesn't get killed by DS Melta or something.

As for Artillery - there's a small bit of fluff in the Codex that kinda sums up the Imperial Guard really well for me. It details briefly a single Artillery Regiment of the Guard that brought down a Chaos Imperator Titan miles before it reached the frontline by bombarding it for an entire day. The image of a few dozen Basilisks continuously raining shells onto the glittering Void Shields of a Titan to eventually punch through them and bring it down is just awesome in my mind...

Of course, outflanking a titan is usually not the best idea, but it could work well with the less-than-optimal-but-hilariously-fun double Inferno Gun Warhound to get those templates onto the field earlygame. The whole CREEEEEEED thing is more about what he could do than what you should do, although that's not to say bringing a Leman Russ Demolisher in on a soft flank isn't effective.

As for orders, the main three 'shooty' orders are FRFSRF, Bring it Down! and Fire on my Target! The latter two can only be issued by a Company Command Squad, though. (That's the primary HQ choice for Guard)

FRFSRF is available to every officer and very simple adds one to the shots fire by every Lasgun in a squad for the turn. It doesn't offer a great deal to the average squad since after Heavy Weapons, your Special Weapon and the Sergeant, who has a pistol rather than a Lasgun, you probably only have 6 Lasguns. However, it can be devastating in combination with a 50-man blob, since all those guys can share the same order...

Bring it Down TLs the squad's weapons versus a vehicle or monstrous creature. It's ideal when you really, really need to stop something or you're firing at a flyer and need those hits, but since only a CCS can issue it, you need to use it wisely. (assuming you have a gunline and are actually using plenty of orders...)

Fire on my Target forces the enemy to re-roll cover saves against your shooting, and is good for getting the best out of Plasma and other high-ap weapons where you don't want the opponent negating you expensive upgrades with cheap cover. It's less important in 6th now that cover kind of sucks, though.

There are a few other orders, but I don't want to bring the ire of GWs IP lawyers and they're not explicitly related to what the Guard do best - shooting - so I won't include them here.

While I'm here, I'll go through the LR variants a little. There are basic two sub-groups - the standard chassis, and the Demolisher chassis, which gets AV11 at the rear but is otherwise the same.

The Demolisher has three variants - the Demolisher itself, which mounts - shock horror - a Demolisher cannon, the Executioner, which basically has a heavy 3 Plasma Cannon, and the Punisher,k which is mainly notable for it's ability to fire 20 shots with just the turret weapon. Since they're S5, they can punch through light vehicles and infantry without breaking sweat, but the cannon is short ranged and had no AP value. Add three Heavy Bolters and wonder if you have enough dice to roll that all in one go.

The 'stock' LR has four turret options. The basic Battle Cannon shouldn't be underestimated, with a sexy 72" range and Krak-Missile characteristics to back it up. The Vanquisher loses that lovely blast, but gets AP2 and 2D6 armour pen out of the bargain. However, it's pretty expensive considering it's only one BS3 shot. The Exterminator basically has two twin-linked Autocannons, although they're condensed down into two barrels. It's joint cheapest with the stock Russ, and not bad at all at bringing down light vehicles. FInally, the Eradicator only has S6 and AP4, but it doesn't care about cover at all, so it'll do a great job of removing units that like to rely on it.

All Russes get either a Heavy Flamer, Heavy Bolter or Lascannon as a hull weapon (although naturally the Lascannon is extra) and can take Sponsons with Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamers, Multi-Meltas or Plasma Cannons, in ascending order of cost. They can also all fire their turret weapons on top of anything else they'd normally be able to fire, although only if they move at combat speed.

There are a lot of different combinations possible here, but if nothing else' it's hilarious to run an Executioner with Plasma Sponsons and a hull Lascannon and watch entire squads of Terminators evaporate.

OK i've almost finished Heavy Support so I might as well do the Hydra too. It's a Chimera with 2 TL 72" range Autocannons that get Skyfire and I believe also ignore all cover saves for moving quickly. It's also dirt cheap and can be taken in squadrons like basically everything else in the book . The main disadvantages are the fact it sucks at shooting at anything that's actually touching the ground and the only model for it is FW and costs a ton, but a fair few of the Guard vehicles are like that.


EDIT: Just saw the second post. Ogryns can't ride Valkyries, although they're kind of overpriced imo anyway. They can be effective, but generally aren't worth it. in general, Guard and close combat don't really get on. It's often best, if face with an assault, to feed them a crap unit, hve them butcher it in a single turn, and then bring full, close-range firepower to bear against the now exposed squad. Failing that, using SM allies for counter-assault ought to work, although I have heard some good things about Rough Riders as a counter-charge unit. IDK how accurate they are, admittedly, since I haven't used them. Kasrkin are basically alternative Storm Trooper models, only specifically from Cadia. In general, unless you're going full air cav and therefore already have a few, the Vendetta is flat-out better than The Valyrie. Getting 3 TL Lascannons on that frame for such a low price is almost criminal! In general, if running flying Meltavets, it's best to keep them cheap since no matter what you do they're going to die when they enemy rturns fire unless yiu already wiped out of a lot of his stuff. There's a lot to be said for 3 Meltaguns and a possibly Demolitions and nothing else, since this kind of squad can jump out and proceed to wreck almost any target. IMO, the Lasgun is almost always better than the shotgun - it does effectively everything the shotgun does other than let you assault - but you can't do that the turn you jump out anyway and will probably be dead by the next. Lasguns are also necessary to benefit from FRFSRF. Basically, keep 'em cheap since Grav Chute Insertion is already kinda suicide and load up on as much one-turn firepower as you can get your hands on.

IG and CC don't work well unless you have a massive blob, fearless/ATSKNF/Stubborn, a crap load of power weapons and Straken, which results, as you point out, in a boat load of points into something that isn't worth it.

With deep striking/gravshuting IG you really looking at super shooty specialization, one shot wonders. PCS with 4* Flamers, storm troopers with 2 Metlas, Melta Vets, maybe CCS with 4* Melta if you feel like you really need that damage right now.

6 Ogryns can go in a Chimera, but they cannot fly. They puke up everywhere, smash up the panels, jump out early and the navy boys don't like it.

Karskin, in Models, are either stormtroopers or vets with Carapace.

Please, EVH, don't mention Executioners to me those things hurt I had one firing on my buddies Tau, wiped him out, and he was the anti tank section of our alliance. yeah, I learnt a lesson that day

In all seriousness though, that's a good option as I have first hand experience of the damage it can do. There's just something abou a squadron of basilisks behind a wall of mortars that REALLY appeals to me though, helped along nicely by that bit of fluff you mentioned there, that's just damned beautiful!

Thanks to you too Blaggard, kinda sucks to have my suspisions confirmed, though perhaps it'll work if I just had them as objective grabbers; have them GCA in with my Marines, mass fire everything off an objective, for them to consolidate on while the Marines move on to something else.

Do you guys have your regular army lists posted up anywhere? If so, can you link them here so I can check them out?

Cheers!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/468320.page <- nobody replied to this but it's a pretty nasty little 1K list I put together. I included a giant CC blob, but it hindsight i'd probably be better just dropping most of the CC shenanigans and being more liberal with upgrades. The Infantry platooin "of 25 models" you mentioned is actually a 5-man pcs and 2 1-man infantry squads, but they aren't great at riding aircraft because they only have BS3 and only get one special weapon. if you need to be cheap, a SWS can grab 3 weaps for around the same cost as an infantry squad with one, but they have less abalative wounds.

Cheers EVH, I'll check that out tomorrow - bed beckons.

Before I go though, here's a muck about list of "things I like" - what do you think?

HQ

CCS
- Straken
- Kell
- Fleet Master
- Ordnance Master
- Astropath
- Carapace armour
- Vox
- Medic

Troops

2x Vet squads identical as follows
- In a Valkyrie with HB sponsons
- Lord Commissar w/ PP & PF, carapace armour
- Priest with Eviscerator & shotgun
- (I've ticked both forward sentries & grenadiers, though would likely go one or the other)
- Vox
- Flamer
- 2x PG's
- ML
- Sergeants have PP & PW

4x Vet squads identical as follows
- Vox
- Mortar (tempted to replace with lascannons so they don't scatter on to my marines when they deep strike in, plus I've just seen the Mortars stats...)
- Sergeants have shotguns

Heavy Support

3x Medusa
- Bastion Breachers
- Operating as a single unit

Fortification

Aegis defense line

As it stands, that's a 2125 list with mortars. An odd amount, but its gone midnight and grim determination may have impeded my better judgement on some of this stuff.

To thin it down I'll probably drop Straken, (go for a PP / PF commander) and definitely choose just one skill set for the Valkyrie - vets, bringing it to 1995. MB's on the commander rounds it to 2000.

Tactically, the Guard deploy first, in full, with my Marine ML Devastators, Termi Librariran & shooty-nators alongside them. The Guard are throwing out shot after shot after shot throughout the entire game. The key here is for my mortar / LC vets to be deployed quite far out front just to be sure that they can bring their lasguns to bear (bare?).

Next, the Marines drop in by drop pod, 24" ahead of the Librarian (hopefully without blocking any shots for the IG). The next Tac Squad drop pods in on the next turn. The Libby uses Gate of Infinity over to the drop pods giving him and the termi squad a safe 24" move each turn, tests permitting. These guys and the tac squad just bounces my opponent all over the board, forcing them off objectives. 3 Land Speeders with HF & MM deal with hordes and tanks that are further afield.

Around about turn 3/4 I'd have my Valk-vets zoom forward and grav chute down as close as they safely can to objectives, and take up camp. All the while the rest of the Guard are saturating the board with las beams and templates.

The draw back to both parts of this force would be that it's a very slow force when it's down on the ground, with the exception of the Librarian and his guys, Valk-vets, and Land Speeders, not much of which has great weapon range on them, disregarding the HB's on the Valks (not sure about multilasers).

What's your review?





Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Combined, that's around about 3500 points IIRC)

Mortars are all right if you have a Platoon. 15 small S4 barrage blasts for 300 points? Yes, please, character sniping!

Voxes here aren't worth it. Damn near never are. If they increased range of orders, maybe.

CCS: Straken and Kell with the 3 character upgrades? You've not even given your 4 vets pistols (Medic can take it as well) to increase they're attack amount, however pathetic it is.

Mortar vets? Ehhh, only in mass, as stated earlier. These guys really want to use their BS4. Shotgun on Sargent looks interesting though.

Can you explain why you want the medusas' grouped up?

If you're going to be dropping those 2 vet melee squads you can give them shooty weapons that'll kill stuff (melta, plasma). Sentries won't really help. At most you might get a couple of 4+ cover saves before you are assaulted, if you've not assaulted yourself. I'm not convinced about sticking PP on a PW/PF. If he melts his own face, bye bye 35+ points, on a IG body worth 7.

If you're wanting a idea about melee guard, I've posted a couple of lists here.
Even then I think I'm over spending on my guardsmen.

Seems like ur vet squads in vendettas arent gunna be in order range so drop em.... and also the commisar if you were keeping him for orders.... mortars are terrible.... you should drop them or put in Autocannons... and you should probly replace the footslogger vets with Regular squads.... and mabye keep one medusa if you really want but, i would drop them and take a LR Vanquisher, and a Manticore.... Also check this if you want http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/467728.page

Just a quick reply for now...

Blaggard - I thought about grouping the medusa's so they'd take 1 force org slot, and would have support from eachother / their crew should infiltrators turn up (though I'd have my valks available in the early turns for this)

Good point on the plasma pistol too, thanks

Dude - you mean drop the vox right? And the commissar as he'd be the one to force the orders through? By regular squads are we talking about a platoon?

Will check out the links and other tanks later

Thanks

The main issue i have with this list is the amount of fat you could quite easily trim. Between Straken, Kell, unneeded CC upgrades and Commissars and advisors that aren't actually helping you, you could save a vast number of points to spend on more bodies and more guns. I had a go at redoing the same sort of list:
HQ (155pts)

Company Command Squad (155pts)
Carapace Armour, Lascannon, Master of Ordnance, 2x Plasma Gun
Company Commander
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs

Troops (970pts)

Infantry Platoon (385pts)

Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Autocannon

Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Autocannon

Infantry Squad
Autocannon, Flamer
Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Infantry Squad
Autocannon, Flamer
Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Platoon Command Squad
4x Flamer
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-laser
Platoon Commander
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Infantry Platoon (385pts)

Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Autocannon

Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Autocannon

Infantry Squad
Autocannon, Flamer
Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Infantry Squad
Autocannon, Flamer
Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Platoon Command Squad
4x Flamer
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-laser
Platoon Commander
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Veteran Squad (100pts)
6x Lasgun, 3x Meltagun
Veteran Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Veteran Squad (100pts)
6x Lasgun, 3x Meltagun
Veteran Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Fast Attack (280pts)

Vendetta Gunship Squadron (140pts)
Vendetta
2 Twin-linked Lascannons, Sponson Heavy Bolters

Vendetta Gunship Squadron (140pts)
Vendetta
2 Twin-linked Lascannons, Sponson Heavy Bolters

Heavy Support (595pts)

Leman Russ Squadron (300pts)
Leman Russ
Heavy Bolter
Leman Russ
Heavy Bolter

Manticore Rocket Launcher (160pts)
Heavy Bolter

Ordnance Battery (135pts)
Medusa
Heavy Bolter

I'll go through this roughly in order. Assuming your Flyers are the only things in reserve, the MoTF and Astropath don't actually help you, because you want them to come on after the opponent so they get a shooting phase to alphastrike him before he can retaliate. The MoO is fine, and I threw a couple Plasma Guns and a Lascannon HWT in there since they're similar high-strength low-ap weapons. I also grabbed carapace since the squad was pretty expensive, but it's not strictly necessary. It's nice for Gets Hot! though. I changed your four foot Vet squads into two Platoons, because this way you gain a ton of firepower more cheaply. Autocannon HWS should cover Flyers nicely if you keep them within the CCS' Order Bubble, and can handle almost any target en mass. I kitted the Infantry out similarly, but also grabbed a Flamer in each squad for overwatch and general anti-horde. The PCS are kitted out as suicide Flamer squads, keeping them cheap but effective, and I gave them both Chimeras for mobility, protection and target saturation.

I dropped a lot of wasted points from the Vets. They're probably dead the turn after they drop no matter how you kit them out, so staying cheap, I grabbed three Meltaguns on each for anti-tank. Since most tanks are easily worth at least 100 points, if you pick targets wisely you'll usually find they make their points back on any successful drop. I switched both Valkyries to Vendettas, because they are criminally cheap for an Av12 Flyer with 3 TL Lascannons, but you could also go with one Valk and one Vendetta if you'd like the variety. One suicide Melta squad rides in each.

Though you had the right idea investing heavily in HS, I made a few changes. All Guard vehicles are better taken out of squadrons if you have the slots - the way you had things set up, all three Medusae had to fire at one target, severly limiting their damage potential. Though I love the Medusa, I sropped two from your list, because they're only AV12 and don't have the durability to stand up as pretty much the only vehicles on the board. I picked up a Manticore, for S10 goodness, as well as a couple of Russes for that thick front armour and adaptability.

There's no ADL in this list, but you could probably fit one pretty easily if you dropped the Heavy Bolter sponsons, downgraded the CCS to an Autocannon, dropped Meltabombs and dropped a couple of Flamers from the Infantry squads. Whether or not you need it depends on how terrain looks at your local scene.