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Hello ladies and gents, we all know the DA codex is winging its way towards us in the near future (relativly), so ask all loyal Dakkaites... what would you like to see change? what would you add/remove?

Also, anyone who thinks DA should be placed into the SM codex, feel free to comment, but not on that particular subject.. its been done to death lol


So here is what I want:

A pure DW elite choice, this is not a normal DW unit and is only unlocked by Belial or a master with termy armour and remains an elite choice.
Beial to be brought in line with other captains, so Iron halo etc and his sword of silience to be a str6 PW, also eternal warrior.
Sternguard Ravenwing elites and sternguard DW elites.

Removal of company vets or name change to inner circle knights, better options if this happens.

other stuff lol

and last but not least... Cypher the Fallen angel

Formosa wrote:
other stuff lol

Thanks, passing this on to Mat Ward so he can finish rewriting the codex.

The codex needs to be different enough so that's justified as being more than just Codex: Slightly Different Marines. Right now the only big differences are Terminators as Troops, Scouts in Elites, and fewer options overall. Ravenwing as-is aren't so special anymore since Marines can take bikes as Troops, and Terminators with mixed weapons is actually done better in Codex: Space Wolves for the most part. They need some kind of bonuses with ancient tech or something to keep them different.

The reason that people talk of combining the DA codex into the SM codex (as well as the BT codex) is because over time, the other marine codexes have started to encroach on their territory. Grey Knights can take Terminators (multi wound terminators called Paladins) as troops with Dragio, and C:SM can take bikes as troops with a regular captain, so what was once made the DA unique has been stolen by other chapters. While some argue that it would be better just to combine in the codex, I would prefer to see Dark Angels saved by giving them more options to make them truly unique among the Space Marines codexes. Some changes that I feel would help with this are.

1. Being able to take Deathwing and Ravenwing without having to take a special character. I don't like how a lot of special deployments are tied to special characters, and would like to see unique army compositions either being available by default, or by taking a basic HQ choice with a certain upgrade (ie, Terminator Captains let you take Deathwing, Biker Captains or Captains in Landspeeders let you take Raven Wing).
2. The ability to take a captain mounted in a land speeder. If I remember correctly you used to be able to take Sammael in a Land Speeder. Having a vehicle HQ choice would be cool.
3. Special configurations for some vehicles and units. Some ideas include new Land Speeder Patterns (In addition to standard, tornado, typhon and storm) unique to DA, unique bike equipment and abilities, and unique Terminator weapons/equipment (better equipment for tac termies, possibly the addition of a third type of devastator terminator).
4. Jetbikes as a fast attack choice, and Jetbike Veterans as an Elite Choice.
5. More unique weaponry and equipment for units. Some cheap and widely available, some more expensive and more unique.

Note: Just to be clear, I don't think that the Dark Angels codex will be removed, nor do I think it should.

Formosa wrote:Hello ladies and gents, we all know the DA codex is winging its way towards us in the near future (relativly), so ask all loyal Dakkaites... what would you like to see change? what would you add/remove?

Also, anyone who thinks DA should be placed into the SM codex, feel free to comment, but not on that particular subject.. its been done to death lol


So here is what I want:

A pure DW elite choice, this is not a normal DW unit and is only unlocked by Belial or a master with termy armour and remains an elite choice.
Beial to be brought in line with other captains, so Iron halo etc and his sword of silience to be a str6 PW, also eternal warrior.
Sternguard Ravenwing elites and sternguard DW elites.

Removal of company vets or name change to inner circle knights, better options if this happens.

other stuff lol

and last but not least... Cypher the Fallen angel

Its good, up until the Cypher part. He shouldn't be in it. Unless they say, acannot be taken alongside, Other characters.

Personality, I would like to see the return of Intractable from the 2nd edition codex. If you fail a moral test caused by shooting, you cannot move or assault in your next turn, but may shot as normal. Dark Angels don't retreat, they drop to a knee and keep firing!

A true Mortis Dreadnaught would be fun as well as that special DA Land Raider GW created for Apocalypse

Improving the special characters so they are inline with their C:SM, C:BA and C:SW counter parts.

The Mad Tanker wrote:Personality, I would like to see the return of Intractable from the 2nd edition codex. If you fail a moral test caused by shooting, you cannot move or assault in your next turn, but may shot as normal. Dark Angels don't retreat, they drop to a knee and keep firing!

A true Mortis Dreadnaught would be fun as well as that special DA Land Raider GW created for Apocalypse

Improving the special characters so they are inline with their C:SM, C:BA and C:SW counter parts.

Amen to that. and a return of Naaman

I would like to see somthing done with the Blades of Reason

The Mad Tanker wrote:Personality, I would like to see the return of Intractable from the 2nd edition codex. If you fail a moral test caused by shooting, you cannot move or assault in your next turn, but may shot as normal. Dark Angels don't retreat, they drop to a knee and keep firing!

A true Mortis Dreadnaught would be fun as well as that special DA Land Raider GW created for Apocalypse

Improving the special characters so they are inline with their C:SM, C:BA and C:SW counter parts.

That's a cool idea! Rumor is they'll get Stubborn again though, which is different but at least somewhat similar in spirit. What does a Mortis do different than your typical Rifleman dreadnought, aside from just having the option for something like 2 lascannons instead? I'd like if those were in as well, but it's pretty much a given DA willl at least get the options that Codex: Space Marines gets.

Brother SRM wrote:

The Mad Tanker wrote:Personality, I would like to see the return of Intractable from the 2nd edition codex. If you fail a moral test caused by shooting, you cannot move or assault in your next turn, but may shot as normal. Dark Angels don't retreat, they drop to a knee and keep firing!

A true Mortis Dreadnaught would be fun as well as that special DA Land Raider GW created for Apocalypse

Improving the special characters so they are inline with their C:SM, C:BA and C:SW counter parts.

That's a cool idea! Rumor is they'll get Stubborn again though, which is different but at least somewhat similar in spirit. What does a Mortis do different than your typical Rifleman dreadnought, aside from just having the option for something like 2 lascannons instead? I'd like if those were in as well, but it's pretty much a given DA willl at least get the options that Codex: Space Marines gets.

Army wide stubborn would be cool.

The Mortis just has more options for guns, It can mount all the right arms weapon options on it's left arm as well; double TL lascannons, double plasma cannons, double multi-meltas, ect.

Double plasma cannon Mortis Dreadnought: Glancing itself to death on turn 2

Brother SRM wrote:Double plasma cannon Mortis Dreadnought: Glancing itself to death on turn 2

I remember someone sugesting that DA become immune to Gets hot (better tech or some such lol), now in 5th this would have been ok as DA would spam the crap out of plasma, in 6th with lower cover this may be a bit OP lol.

As to the Mortis, I would go as far as to say "no" to iron clads (at all) and normal dread in elites, make Mortis AV13/12/10 and all weapons can be doubled up as usual, this would give DA dreads a unique feel imediatly.

Another option for DA tac sqauds, if you take 10 man units you have the option of either another Special weapon OR an aditional heavy weapon, this nicely represents the DA's larger stock of limited or rare tech.

I would also like to see DA characters get an "Oath" sort of system, basically it would be along the lines of chooseing the oath and if fufilled in the battle, they gain a bonus of some kind, this would be diferent from BT as they gain theres imdediatly after purchase and SW who just straight up buy the thing they want, my idea is something like this.

Your Warlord may take any of the following Oaths
Oath of Vengeance: A character may take the oath of vengeance, If he does so, after deployment (but before scouts) you must select the enemy MC or IC, if your character kills the oposing model in a challenge, you gain Furious charge and inspiring pressence warlord trait.

Something like that basically

Oh.. and prefured enemy Chaos space marines for the Deathwing too

As to the Mortis, I would go as far as to say "no" to iron clads (at all) and normal dread in elites, make Mortis AV13/12/10 and all weapons can be doubled up as usual, this would give DA dreads a unique feel imediatly.

Or one could give it some unique options, rather like the Contemptor Mortis Dread.

What would i like to See?

1. It's been said but it can't be said enough. Elite DW unit to be DW command squad.
2. Mortis dreads with skyfire war-gear option. I used the FW rules for one last night and it was boss.
3. Land Raider Ares
4. RW command squad for Sammael
5. RW command speeder may preform vector strikes.
6. Relic blades everywhere for SC's
7. Plasma Predator
8. Rules making Greenwing a true gunline
9. codex prices in line.
10. Bring back Naaman and Asmodai Seriously.

Belial and Sammael are basic HQ choices though. If you compare them to a normal company master with the appropriate kit they are actually about 15 points undercosted with their unique swords. Also you don't need the special characters to take Deathwing and Ravenwing squads, just to make them troops. In the current DA codex, Sammael's jetbike is supposed to be the last working version in the galaxy which gived him a bit of cache in the special character stakes. Allowing you to take whole units of them woul dbe a bit meh.

I also rather like the current version of company veterans and I don't think they need an ultra-grimdark renaming...

However to fit in with the existing fluff I quite like the idea of giving them bonuses to plasma weapons (re-rolling gets hot perhaps?) and the skyfire Mortis is a nice touch.

My main problem with the current codex is that Ravenwing bikers are supposed to be these supremely skilled riders, but are actually not any better than most Scout bikers. Hit and run perhaps, or re-rolling charges or something might help readress the balance.

In my view, you use the DA codex to get Deathwing or Ravenwing armies and use Codex Space Marines to do a normal DA line army. You can even do this properly now using the new allies rules with a Codex SM company as the main unit with an allied detachment of DW or RW, or vice versa.

Flinty wrote:Belial and Sammael are basic HQ choices though. If you compare them to a normal company master with the appropriate kit they are actually about 15 points undercosted with their unique swords. Also you don't need the special characters to take Deathwing and Ravenwing squads, just to make them troops. In the current DA codex, Sammael's jetbike is supposed to be the last working version in the galaxy which gived him a bit of cache in the special character stakes. Allowing you to take whole units of them woul dbe a bit meh.

I also rather like the current version of company veterans and I don't think they need an ultra-grimdark renaming...

However to fit in with the existing fluff I quite like the idea of giving them bonuses to plasma weapons (re-rolling gets hot perhaps?) and the skyfire Mortis is a nice touch.

My main problem with the current codex is that Ravenwing bikers are supposed to be these supremely skilled riders, but are actually not any better than most Scout bikers. Hit and run perhaps, or re-rolling charges or something might help readress the balance.

In my view, you use the DA codex to get Deathwing or Ravenwing armies and use Codex Space Marines to do a normal DA line army. You can even do this properly now using the new allies rules with a Codex SM company as the main unit with an allied detachment of DW or RW, or vice versa.

Fluff wise DA have no more skill or use with plasma than any other chapter, its achient tech they are skilled with/have, Sammy's jetbike is "one of the last in existence" so GW could sneak a 5-10man unit in maybe lol

Formosa wrote:
Fluff wise DA have no more skill or use with plasma than any other chapter, its achient tech they are skilled with/have, Sammy's jetbike is "one of the last in existence" so GW could sneak a 5-10man unit in maybe lol

Stop using lol like it's a punctuation mark.

Plasma is generally considered to be close to ancient tech, and is scarce as a result. Rumors persist of a Predator with plasma cannon sponsons, similar in a way to the plasma turret Predator that Forgeworld puts out. I'd like to see stuff like that, conversion beamers and so on if they really want to push the ancient tech angle.

I'd like to see them recognized as the traitors they are and get wiped out by a joint force led by the wolves of fenris, because lets face it darkangels are about on par with GK for killing loyal imperial forces.

I smell a troll.

Anyway, I'd like to see items recosted, more unique HQs (that aren't just glorified Company Masters) some other unique units and some of the updated SM stuff, i.e. Vanguard and Sternguard...

Flinty wrote:In the current DA codex, Sammael's jetbike is supposed to be the last working version in the galaxy which gived him a bit of cache in the special character stakes. Allowing you to take whole units of them woul dbe a bit meh.

I'm aware of the current fluff, but just remember that GW's policy towards fluff is rather casual. I mean, they re-wrote significant portions of Necron fluff with their new codex, and if I recall correctly they originally had Space Marine Jetbikes several editions ago before they were removed. I mean, inclusion of Jetbikes could be as simple as "They found a lost Standard Template for them//They kept hidden the standard template, and now they've decided that they need Jetbikes, so they are using it again. They also aren't sharing with non-DA chapters becuase DA are paranoid and the rest of the Imperium we're going to go send 7 companies to take down 1 fallen.

In short, GW appears to have a fluff policy similar to Blizzard's, "We'll keep fluff consistent whenever possible, but if existing lore gets in the way of good gameplay, the existing lore will have to change. If GW feels that jetbikes would improve the DA codex and make them more unique among the many existing marine codexes, they will change the fluff to make it happen. And personally, I like the idea of being able to take a squad of jetbikes, likely as an elite choice or command squad, with some equipped with heavy/specialist weaponry, and fly around nuking stuff.

Brother SRM wrote:

Formosa wrote:
Fluff wise DA have no more skill or use with plasma than any other chapter, its achient tech they are skilled with/have, Sammy's jetbike is "one of the last in existence" so GW could sneak a 5-10man unit in maybe lol

Stop using lol like it's a punctuation mark.

Plasma is generally considered to be close to ancient tech, and is scarce as a result. Rumors persist of a Predator with plasma cannon sponsons, similar in a way to the plasma turret Predator that Forgeworld puts out. I'd like to see stuff like that, conversion beamers and so on if they really want to push the ancient tech angle.

Not to mention DA might actually be using different models of Ancient Tech, people seem to forget that there's often many types of weapons within the same category, there's how many variants of the humble bolter exist with different modifications even for the most basic one? Different types of plasma gun because they are using their own modified versions that even fired at full blast won't cause them to overheat as much.

As well as the fact DA has kept some Standard Templates to itself, producing it's own "Ancient Technology" aboard their home base, thus giving them higher numbers of terminator suits and other tech.

The problem with giving DA unique items is that they will (eventually) find their way into the C:SM. GW are not going to produce a model for DA, and then not add it to C:SM, as this would cut the numbers of people who will buy the model. If you add a dual-Plasma Cannon dread to C:SM, more people will buy the models ect.

If you want DA to remain unique, and not merged with C:SM, you need to look at making them a -significant- stand alone army, in the same way that BA are vastly different from C:SM. If DA are going to be C:Sm with a slightly different FoC, then they would as well just be in C:Sm.

I just wanted to say that in the Purging of Kadilus harbor Naaman is killed. Sorry DA fanboys!

Frecklesonfire wrote:I just wanted to say that in the Purging of Kadilus harbor Naaman is killed. Sorry DA fanboys!

You realize there's a few Special Characters in the books that are dead in the current fluff right?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Frecklesonfire wrote:I just wanted to say that in the Purging of Kadilus harbor Naaman is killed. Sorry DA fanboys!

You realize there's a few Special Characters in the books that are dead in the current fluff right?

Eldrad, for example.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Frecklesonfire wrote:I just wanted to say that in the Purging of Kadilus harbor Naaman is killed. Sorry DA fanboys!

You realize there's a few Special Characters in the books that are dead in the current fluff right?

Eldrad, for example.

And Tycho.

Dark Angels seemed pretty interesting before other Chapters suddenly horned in on their territory.

I think it would be interesting if Dark Angels and their plasma guns became the inverse of what happened from 2e to 3e. It used to be that Imperial Plasma Guns could fire just fine without overheating. It was the Chaos guns that had higher output at the risk of overheating. For some reason, though, Imperial guns started gaining that downside without any benefit.

Maybe the Dark Angels could gain some sort of Plasma Gun that doesn't suffer from "Gets Hot!", but with a higher points value per gun to offset the ability. I also like the vow idea, where if you can accomplish somethnig on the battlefield, for the rest of the game the army gains a benefit.

Frecklesonfire wrote:I just wanted to say that in the Purging of Kadilus harbor Naaman is killed. Sorry DA fanboys!

He has been for a very long time we all know, its not a fanboy thing.. also Eldrad is dead, Tycho and lysander used to be dead before 5th decided to bring him back.

What I would love is for the Dark Angels to break the trend of Space Marine offshoots being Close Combat Orentated and be a Shooty Army.

Formosa wrote:

Frecklesonfire wrote:I just wanted to say that in the Purging of Kadilus harbor Naaman is killed. Sorry DA fanboys!

He has been for a very long time we all know, its not a fanboy thing.. also Eldrad is dead, Tycho and lysander used to be dead before 5th decided to bring him back.

Ayup. Special characters being alive in the current 41st Millennium is no basis for whether they can be fieldable. For while now 40K has generally been about the many years leading up to the current era, that's why the fluff never advances. Eldrad formally died during the Eye of Terror Campaign, back in 2003, but he's still the largest active Eldar special character, beyond the Phoenix Lords.

What I would love is for the Dark Angels to break the trend of Space Marine offshoots being Close Combat Orentated and be a Shooty Army.

I thought besides Raven/Deathwing they have been?

RegalPhantom wrote:

Flinty wrote:In the current DA codex, Sammael's jetbike is supposed to be the last working version in the galaxy which gived him a bit of cache in the special character stakes. Allowing you to take whole units of them woul dbe a bit meh.

I'm aware of the current fluff, but just remember that GW's policy towards fluff is rather casual. I mean, they re-wrote significant portions of Necron fluff with their new codex, and if I recall correctly they originally had Space Marine Jetbikes several editions ago before they were removed. I mean, inclusion of Jetbikes could be as simple as "They found a lost Standard Template for them//They kept hidden the standard template, and now they've decided that they need Jetbikes, so they are using it again. They also aren't sharing with non-DA chapters becuase DA are paranoid and the rest of the Imperium we're going to go send 7 companies to take down 1 fallen.

In short, GW appears to have a fluff policy similar to Blizzard's, "We'll keep fluff consistent whenever possible, but if existing lore gets in the way of good gameplay, the existing lore will have to change. If GW feels that jetbikes would improve the DA codex and make them more unique among the many existing marine codexes, they will change the fluff to make it happen. And personally, I like the idea of being able to take a squad of jetbikes, likely as an elite choice or command squad, with some equipped with heavy/specialist weaponry, and fly around nuking stuff.

If Jet bikes come back, I'll have to add some as "allies". This is one of the very few times that I'll say screw the fluff, I want this unit . IIrc didn't the blood angels have stormravens for a long time and then gave the standard template construct to gk?