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Hello All!

The gears are in motion Dakka! I'm working on a 2000 point Gunline-esque Pedro/Sternguard/Scouts Army, and I have a question for you...

First, a quick glimpse of the list:

Pedro + 10 sternguard + LR of some variant (I'm thinking Godhammer, since I don't want/need to be in assault range with the sternguard)
6 Sternguard (backfield AT)
6 Sternguard (backfield AT)
5 scout snipers + Telion
5 scout snipers
Stormtalon (Asscan + TLLC)
Stormtalon (Asscan + TLLC)
Aegis Line + Quad-Gun (Telion and scouts go here)
(And dual heavies of some kind, I'm thinking Vindicators)

I plan to use the two 6-man sternguard units as a long range AT unit, but I'm hung up on how to kit them out. I'm wondering what's the most efficient points-v-damage output setup. I have a few options, and I'm unsure which to go with:

6 Sternguard with 2 Lascannons in a TLLC-back is 255 points
-This gives me 2 lascannons and a TLLC that can fire at seperate targets. Nice. But 255 points.

6 Sternguard with 2 Lascannons in a Razorback is 220 points
-This gives me 2 lascannons, and a HB for infantry and Skimmers at reasonable range. Also the 2nd cheapest option. But seems to make the least sense lol.

6 Sternguard with 2 Lascannons in a Rhino is 215 Points
-This gives me 2 lascannons inside of a rhino-bunker. This seems to be akin to just a TLLC-back with nobody in it. It just feels like a makeshift-twinlinked lascannon. I feel like I'd be better off paying for a TLLC-back by itself lol, not to say that thats a great option in and of itself.

or if I'm feeling saucy,

6 Sternguard with 2 HF in a TLLC-back is 245 points
-This gives me early long range AT, and when the armor is taken care of, I've got 6 sternguard with 2 heavy flamers capable of rushing the midfield and toasting Infantry squads and capturing objectives.

Hmm, what are your thoughts Dakka?? Thanks!

Lascannons are exceptionally average at tank busting.
Maxing out on Lascannons generally isn't as effective as a combined arms approach.

IMO, mixing special ammo with lascannons ends up with a less effective shooting phase. You're either under-using the lascannon or wasting the special ammo.

If you want lascannons in the back field, take 10 devistators with 4 lascannons, and combat squad them.

Never upgrade sternguard weapons to anything but combi, you lose the reason you take sternguard.

Personally I'd say to take your other sternguard unit in a squad of 10 and combat squad if need be. Have them take a TL lascannon razorback.

Then just take a tactical squad with lascannon, flamer or melta and TL las razorback.

Having three vindicators in heavy support would solve other issues.

Also clump your snipers together, this keeps telion alive longer, you can still combat squad if you need to.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

IMO, mixing special ammo with lascannons ends up with a less effective shooting phase. You're either under-using the lascannon or wasting the special ammo.

If you want lascannons in the back field, take 10 devistators with 4 lascannons, and combat squad them.

Thats a good idea, running a 10 man dev squad. My only hesitation with that is the thought juraigamer and I seem to share: Vindicators. Dumping that many points on devastators isn't going to allow for much other heavy support, even if I save the points from not lascannon-ing my sternguard. But you're right, I do think I'd do better to put my ranged AT somewhere other than sternguard. My worry with this list is that I won't have enough to throw back at the enemy. I need to not just blunt advances, I'd like to be able to advance as well-- putting that many non-scoring points in the backfield seems unsound... hmm

juraigamer wrote:Never upgrade sternguard weapons to anything but combi, you lose the reason you take sternguard.

Personally I'd say to take your other sternguard unit in a squad of 10 and combat squad if need be. Have them take a TL lascannon razorback.

Then just take a tactical squad with lascannon, flamer or melta and TL las razorback.

Having three vindicators in heavy support would solve other issues.

Also clump your snipers together, this keeps telion alive longer, you can still combat squad if you need to.

@ juraigamer: I think you're right. Maybe I scrap the Lascannon-sternguard idea, use the saved points to purchase as many vindicators as possible. 3 sounds groovy! Im hesitant to take tactical marines, as the points spent there (rather than the cheaper scouts) would have to be pulled from somewhere, likely my sternguard, which I'm using to do a tactical squads job- only better I hope.

I'm not keen on breaking up the landraider-mounted squad, as thats going to weaken my foothold on the midfield area. And I can't do a big combat-squadded scout unit, cause that leaves me only 1 troops choice, and 1 less missile.

I've reworked the list a bit to look something more like this, what do you think?

pedro + 10 sternguard (pf, hf, hf) in LR (Godhammer) AV 14 and 2 TLLC to creep up midfield.
6 sternguard in razorback - the extra dakka should offset the small size of the squad
6 sternguard in razorback - the extra dakka should offset the small size of the squad
5 scout snipers+ ML+ telion
5 scout snipers+ ML
stormtalon (asscan+tllc)
stormtalon (asscan+tllc)
vindicator
vindicator
ADL+Quad Gun

Same general idea here. Pedroguard-Landraider secures midfield. Scouts hang back manning ADL while telion mans quad gun. Stormtalons down enemy flyers, then harass whatever they want. Each 6-man sternguard unit rides razorback with a vindicator alongside. They pulp a target objective, sternguard squats, vindicator and razorback kill whatever is nearby.
Set up like it is here, the only upgrades on any sternguard is a PF sgt and 2 HF in the 10 man squad. This leaves me 40 points to dish out combi-weapons and not much else. Any thoughts on the revisions?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
although I guess this should go over into army lists at this point lol.

Combi-weapons on your Sternguard. The only exception should be HFs if you wanna take them.

I'd put them in Rhinos instead of the Razorbacks. Being able to fire combi-weapons and Special Issue Ammo out of the fire points is better than the TLHB on the hull.

Vindis seem like an odd choice in this army. The rest of the army is focussed on long-range shooting, and then this unit is limited to 24". I think you'd be better off with Dakka Preds (AC/HB ones). The firepower is great against heavy infantry and light armor, and the points you save can go into extra Sternguard and combi-weapon upgrades.

Lastly, I don't like the idea of a single LR at this points level. Your opponent should have adequate Melta to bring it down, and it's a big points investment. I'd use 2 LRs or none. I mean, for those points, you could buy a Pod for that squad and Lysander. Who's great in 6th Ed, has amazing synergy with Sternguard (and Scouts!) and can issue challenges like a boss.

ARKTOR.RECLAIMUS wrote:


I'm not keen on breaking up the landraider-mounted squad, as thats going to weaken my foothold on the midfield area.

pedro + 10 sternguard (pf, hf, hf) in LR (Godhammer) AV 14 and 2 TLLC to creep up midfield.
6 sternguard in razorback - the extra dakka should offset the small size of the squad
6 sternguard in razorback - the extra dakka should offset the small size of the squad
5 scout snipers+ ML+ telion
5 scout snipers+ ML
stormtalon (asscan+tllc)
stormtalon (asscan+tllc)
vindicator
vindicator
ADL+Quad Gun

Same general idea here. Pedroguard-Landraider secures midfield. Scouts hang back manning ADL while telion mans quad gun. Stormtalons down enemy flyers, then harass whatever they want. Each 6-man sternguard unit rides razorback with a vindicator alongside. They pulp a target objective, sternguard squats, vindicator and razorback kill whatever is nearby.
Set up like it is here, the only upgrades on any sternguard is a PF sgt and 2 HF in the 10 man squad. This leaves me 40 points to dish out combi-weapons and not much else. Any thoughts on the revisions?

Opps, I wasn't clear. I meant your two 6 man sternguard unit should just be a large 10 man that you can combat squad if need be, but having both 6 man take razorbacks work so long as you upgrade the main gun to something useful, then first then they can move 6, get out of the razorback 6 and start blowing things away.

I'd still say to take just bolters on your landraider unit. You don't actually want sternguard to get that close to the enemy, so keeping that 12 inch sweet spot where you can blow away a unit and then keep moving is best, having flamers will end up forcing you too close.

Oh and make sure your landraider has extra armor!

You take the heavy weapons on the sternguard instead of the devs because they are cheaper and scoring as well as still having the bolters on the other models. I will take scoring lascannons over non scoring if the slots are not being a problem. However I agree, make them 10 mans and then combat squad them, can still keep the 2 heavy weapons

I would run the rhinos instead of the razorbacks so you can flat out them infront of your sternguard in the shooting phase to protect them from return shots.

Personally I am not a fan of combi weapons, it is the number of points invested in one shot that will usually waste the rest of the units shooting. I would rather invest in something else and let the sternguard do what they do, which is hunt infantry. Only say the heavy weapons cause 5 sternguard with 2 is cheaper than 5 devs with 2 and still scoring.

Keep in mind that rending assault cannons can penetrate AV14. Assault cannons can always provide anti tank and on flyers have the advantage over lascannons. I would get typhoon MLs on the stormtalons.

Actually I think 155 pts for a unit that is scoring and yet brings two lascannons is pretty good deal.

I would be wary about putting sternguard into vehicles out of which they can not shoot.
Then the land raider is too many points not to use the assault capabilities.

drop pods should also be considered.

I think you would like a couple of rhinos with 4 combimeltas+2heavy flamers,(6 in total), then a rhino with 5 combimeltas, then 5 with 2 lascannons to hide behind the ADL.
With this you may as well take a tactical squad in a razorback or rhino, as they will better help the sternguard.

Scouts should really have camo cloaks. Telion could do with more snipers.

Also to spend more points, I would want to bring 3 stormtalons as they are so weak.

Sternguard are great anti-infantry. While combi-weapons provide great additions, they are limited in range. For a fire support sternguard, I would look at anti-infantry type heavy weapons... plasma cannons, heavy bolters, missile launchers.

Missile launchers are great for multi-purpose but if you can handle the heat, I would lean on plasma cannons.

Compared to devastators, a sternguard is not a bad option for holding a position. The fact that they can control an objective is great.

Another option would be to not close with the enemy. Place pedro on the quad gun. Go firepower heavy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want back line anti-tank in a Pedro list, perhaps
a non-maxed out devastator with a 1 or 2 las cannons and 0- 1 multi-meltas. The benifit is the 5 BS with the weapon of your choice. I would pair that with a 5-man sternguard unit if you want something to control an objective load them up with combi-meltas and perhaps heavy flamers.

If you are going to do firepower, personnally forget the landraider. It is a lot of points to deliver a lackluster assault force of 10 sternguard and Pedro. (250 points to deliver 400 points of power armored troops... they will get delivered and then die.) If you want to keep them at range, either invest in more snipers (with missile launchers) or start maxing out your sternguard.

They do die easy but I like the idea of razorbacks with your sternguard rather than lascannons IN your sternguard.
A TL Las or Las/Plas razorback can give you the anti-tank you need plus the mobility. While it preserves the mobility of the sternguard.