Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

OK, its about 4:00 AM and sometime I think of crazy stuff this late.

Am I the only one who thinks, just a little bit, that some of GW's tight lipped attitude towards leaks is there just to generate more hype over the leaks without having to confirm anything. It is really the best of both worlds they do not need to commit to anyone path of action, while still stirring up anticipation.

When i read a leak a bit it always feels like "insider info" I am now privy to some information i was not able to get otherwise, when i read a press release it seems less exciting. So when they leak something maybe some of it is intentional.

Thoughts?

Not really, no. They have seriously cracked down on leaks over the last year or two to the extent that there is significantly less confirmed GW N&R out here than there used to be, and what does exist comes out closer to release dates.

I'm given to understand the prevailing thought is that the crack down has been a result of New Line being upset about GW putting out images of the LOTR trolls and other figures before the official LOTR film images. As a result and to keep their LOTR franchise they have really gone to town with cutting down on the information they release, either intentionally (which is freaking stupid) or that is leaked.

Oh ok : (


I guess i understand the movie bit though.

I wonder if the leak of all the Hobbit products names which included names and descriptions in the movie will be enough to cause issues between GW and NLC.

If NLC really did demand utter secrecy, then there was probably something in the contract about non-disclosure and responsibility for employee leaks.

It's really rather clever marketing.

The leak threads quickly turn into wishlisting which offers the company market research, and the short time between announcement and release cuts down on the 'that model sucks' factor that accompanies every release from every company.

Their strategy fails with me. I always wait until everything is released before I buy anything.

frozenwastes wrote:I wonder if the leak of all the Hobbit products names which included names and descriptions in the movie will be enough to cause issues between GW and NLC.

If NLC really did demand utter secrecy, then there was probably something in the contract about non-disclosure and responsibility for employee leaks.

They immediately throw their contract in the garbage bin and stop producing LotR miniatures!

Damn, must stop dreaming.

marielle wrote:It's really rather clever marketing.

No it's not.
GW are releasing something new, so they set a date to release it. This is normal.
If information is leaked before then, then it's leaked.

Its hard to plan a purchase without knowing its coming!

Byte they don't want you plan ANYTHING impulse buys one after the other

KalashnikovMarine wrote:Byte they don't want you plan ANYTHING impulse buys one after the other

So true.

I mean, if I knew for 100% that the new rules box set had X army and I was interested on expanding it because I could, I would already be planning and buying. Now, not a chance.

Byte wrote:Its hard to plan a purchase without knowing its coming!

Wait until it's out, then plan it?
Or if you need it that badly, buy it anyway?

Testify wrote:

Byte wrote:Its hard to plan a purchase without knowing its coming!

Wait until it's out, then plan it?
Or if you need it that badly, buy it anyway?

Obviously there's workarounds and adaptation, but hardly an effective marketing strategy for gw and doesn't fit well with me. Surprise money management, no thanks. No weekly allowance for this guy! I'm almost 40 yrs old!

Byte wrote:

Testify wrote:

Byte wrote:Its hard to plan a purchase without knowing its coming!

Wait until it's out, then plan it?
Or if you need it that badly, buy it anyway?

Obviously there's workarounds and adaptation, but hardly an effective marketing strategy for gw and doesn't fit well with me. Surprise money management, no thanks. No weekly allowance for this guy! I'm almost 40 yrs old!

You are their target market. They want the ohhh shiny crowd.

That being said, I could see it be a marketing scheme, besides that huge list that was leaked, that is a little much. But things like the regular rumor leaks could be. We have done this kinda thing at work with our marketing before to make some waves before we release stuff.

sparkywtf wrote:

Byte wrote:

Testify wrote:

Byte wrote:Its hard to plan a purchase without knowing its coming!

Wait until it's out, then plan it?
Or if you need it that badly, buy it anyway?

Obviously there's workarounds and adaptation, but hardly an effective marketing strategy for gw and doesn't fit well with me. Surprise money management, no thanks. No weekly allowance for this guy! I'm almost 40 yrs old!

You are their target market. They want the ohhh shiny crowd.

That being said, I could see it be a marketing scheme, besides that huge list that was leaked, that is a little much. But things like the regular rumor leaks could be. We have done this kinda thing at work with our marketing before to make some waves before we release stuff.

Give me a break. As opposed to the buy the models six months after the release crowd. Weak sauce.

Of course new releases are meant to drive sales and promote product lines. Certainly this isn't a revelation.

that should have said aren't the target market.

As said in many threads and many times, if they told you what they were releasing, people wouldn't buy the release because they would wait till something else 2 months later.

Maybe GW assumes we all buy multiple armies though too. We all collect everything!

From what I understand, the policy on leaks has everything to do with New Line. Not only does New Line Cinema not want their products leaked early, but they told GW that in order to keep their license, no products could be leaked at all until they went up for preorder.

This arrangement got stricter when the Necron models were leaked a full 2 months before release, and New Line gak a brick.

So I don't really think New Line cares so much about leaked information as they do leaked pictures.

Now GW does have reason to not leak info. If you found out that a new Rhino model was coming out in 6 months, you'd stop buying them now and just wait. Instead, GW is counting on you buying the ones you need now, and then also buying the new ones when they come out. This was especially true with Assault on Black Reach. Once people suspected 6th edition, and thus a new boxed set, sales of AoBR plummeted down to zero.

Aerethan wrote:From what I understand, the policy on leaks has everything to do with New Line. Not only does New Line Cinema not want their products leaked early, but they told GW that in order to keep their license, no products could be leaked at all until they went up for preorder.

This arrangement got stricter when the Necron models were leaked a full 2 months before release, and New Line gak a brick.

What, not even the products that had nothing to do with the films?

Elemental wrote:

Aerethan wrote:From what I understand, the policy on leaks has everything to do with New Line. Not only does New Line Cinema not want their products leaked early, but they told GW that in order to keep their license, no products could be leaked at all until they went up for preorder.

This arrangement got stricter when the Necron models were leaked a full 2 months before release, and New Line gak a brick.

What, not even the products that had nothing to do with the films?

The line of thinking was that if GW couldn't keep a tight lid on their own products, why should New Line think they would be able to keep tight on LotR?

New Line is a much larger company than GW, and could destroy them if they wanted. GW is the one paying for privilege here. It is up to them to show New Line that they are good enough to sell their product.

Aerethan wrote:
The line of thinking was that if GW couldn't keep a tight lid on their own products, why should New Line think they would be able to keep tight on LotR?

New Line is a much larger company than GW, and could destroy them if they wanted. GW is the one paying for privilege here. It is up to them to show New Line that they are good enough to sell their product.

I get that they don't want leaks, but it doesn't explain why it would make GW not preview their own non-LotR stuff.

It's not previews they care about.

Necrons were leaked 2 months early. New Line told GW if it happened with LotR, they'd sue or some such nonsense.

More or less GW has to keep tight on releases because New Line could very easily pull the plug on the entire LotR line, which puts New Line in the position of all the power. GW can't afford to lose LotR. Not so much for the fear of lost future sales, but the fact that they would have to pull EVERY single LotR already in existence as all images in the line are IP owned by New Line. Sure they could still make LotR models, but they would have to be completely different from anything shown in the movies. The Tolkien estate owns the NAMES, not the likenesses that the models use.

GW in this sense is not in charge of their own policy. They can either play ball with what New Line says, or they can eat a massive loss and drop the line.

I think it would work well if GW were the only producer making miniatures and games in the market. In that situation, the customer base has to wait like kittens waiting for mothers milk because there is no other option out there. I suppose imagining that kind of market and industry, it does kind of make sense, although now (more than ever before) it most certainly would make sense for GW to use advertising/marketing.

I think most people though have to make plans in terms of what they are going to spend money on, and I do so usually a month or two in advance and (try hard to anyway!) just allocate a certain budget. As such, stuff like the Daemons release which might have interested me, has completely gone sailing by.. by the time I heard anything about it, I'd already put money aside for a Kickstarter and the new Infinity book (which had been advertised sometime before).

Similarly I've invested a fair bit in Mantic's Forge Father line as I've wanted another 'Dwarf in Space' army for years. I've heard some pretty strong rumours that GW's own model range of Demiurg is on the way (and a friend of mine commented that one of the sculptors confirmed to him that sculpted minis have been sat on the shelves for at least a year, waiting for a release window). But through a complete lack of marketing and official confirmation, I got sick of waiting and just plumped for Mantic's models instead. Now, if the Demiurg are released, the amount of money I'm going to spend on them is going to be significantly reduced. So, like I say the 'no information' policy works OK if you are king in a marketplace of one, and the customer base has no option but to wait for whatever comes next, but not if there are other alternatives out there to spend your hobby budget on.

Secrecy is more cinematic.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Secrecy is more cinematic.

Though if they roll a 1 they have to make a leak... unless they are playing as a space marine

Pacific wrote:So, like I say the 'no information' policy works OK if you are king in a marketplace of one, and the customer base has no option but to wait for whatever comes next, but not if there are other alternatives out there to spend your hobby budget on.

I still think the majority of GW's customers only really know about GW. They get recruited in a GW store or by word of mouth from a friend. They don't discover other miniatures until after they have already started buying their 40k or WFB army. Anyone who goes on to become a life long gamer who is aware of the larger industry isn't really their target market. They want the teenager who will only really ever be their customer, even if they end up quitting in a couple of years.

Those of us who go on the internet, learn about all sorts of miniature options and consider ourself part of the hobby of miniature gaming are not really GW's target audience. Those people might be perfectly happy to read about things in White Dwarf as their first contact with new releases. Maybe they'll hear about it from a friend or maybe they'll see it on GW's website.

The news & rumour crowd here, BoLS, warseer, etc., are definitely a tiny minority of their customers.

Aerethan wrote:Now GW does have reason to not leak info. If you found out that a new Rhino model was coming out in 6 months, you'd stop buying them now and just wait. Instead, GW is counting on you buying the ones you need now, and then also buying the new ones when they come out. This was especially true with Assault on Black Reach. Once people suspected 6th edition, and thus a new boxed set, sales of AoBR plummeted down to zero.

That's probably the best reason for no marketing. If I knew plastic storm troopers were coming, why would I go buy a set of metal ones now. If you keep that info locked away I will have bought metal storm troopers, and now 3 months later I have to buy plastic ones! You get twice the sales and I get some paper weights. (Feth metal models)

edit: forgot my main point!

When 6th ed rumors started getting bigger and a release date out that people at our store believe, 40k sales tanked, to near 0. No one was buying, modeling, painting, playing, anything. As soon as 6th dropped, sales have spiked, things that haven't sold in months or years went flying of the shelves. Imagine stores if this happened every 3 months, sales go to 0 because everyone is waiting. I imagine a lot of stores would not be able to take that kind of hit that often.

sparkywtf wrote:

When 6th ed rumors started getting bigger and a release date out that people at our store believe, 40k sales tanked, to near 0. No one was buying, modeling, painting, playing, anything. As soon as 6th dropped, sales have spiked, things that haven't sold in months or years went flying of the shelves. Imagine stores if this happened every 3 months, sales go to 0 because everyone is waiting. I imagine a lot of stores would not be able to take that kind of hit that often.

Now I always stated that 6th Ed would sell and sell well however a curious thing happened at my LFGS. They did sell 30+ rule books, but did it turn into 30+ people playing a game at the store and buying new GW product?

Nope.

How about 1/2?

Nope.

No new players. Not really any upswing on sales other than the rule books.

I perceive the reason is for the additional discount he was giving to move product. He made his money. GW made their money. But no new players because of this.

It really depends on your region on where you live. In mine, GW products have eroded in sales and in its place have been other miniatures and or card games/ board games.


Now as far as this so called New Line Cinema Hush Hush talk. Have not seen any hard evidence. None. So if someone on the interwebs can post something that is not coming from some blogger site telling us that there is a mole and he states.... Get my drift?

I believe New Line has little to nothing to do with the 40K Franchise. New Line has that influence with Lord of the Rings product and nothing more.

What I believe from a business perspective is that this has something to do with the Chapter House Law suit that is still pending. Their tight lipped policy was formulated to stifle 3 party companies to created after market products. Less information given means of a less time to make an after market product that people would buy.

So people who are in the know. Where is your data? Because I can not find any besides the usual BS being flung on the interwebs by bloggers who say that they have this friend who says....

Adam LongWalker wrote:I believe New Line has little to nothing to do with the 40K Franchise. New Line has that influence with Lord of the Rings product and nothing more.

That’s probably true, and I’ve said from the start that NLC’s rules regarding leaks should only apply to their own products and products based on the LotR license. It shouldn’t affect 40K/WFB because they’re unrelated. However, it’s not too much of a stretch to see GW applying the LotR rules to everything just to appease NLC.

I don't think it was due to 3rd party makers 'scooping' them on models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Adam LongWalker wrote:I believe New Line has little to nothing to do with the 40K Franchise. New Line has that influence with Lord of the Rings product and nothing more.

That’s probably true, and I’ve said from the start that NLC’s rules regarding leaks should only apply to their own products and products based on the LotR license. It shouldn’t affect 40K/WFB because they’re unrelated. However, it’s not too much of a stretch to see GW applying the LotR rules to everything just to appease NLC.

I don't think it was due to 3rd party makers 'scooping' them on models.

Should have clarified better I believe that 3 third party makers are part of the reason of their new policy.

Information brownouts such as these actions denotes to me more than just possibly NLC throwing it's weight around in GW corporate land. It is more of many symptomatic problems as many of these actions took place back in 2011, which includes the embargo as an example, the Seriousness of the Chapter house lawsuit hence a third party company making bits that GW did not do. All of this still deals with their revenue streaming process. More or less this is working as they are continually posting (IMHO) small pretax profits.

People are throwing out stuff on the interwebs that is was just one reason and generally it is the NLC angle. I however believe that there were a culmination of issues (which probably include NLC about the LotR franchise) that the Board of Directors decided in this type of policy and Games Workshop would implemented it.

If GW had leaked pics of the Tervigon they might actually have had some ground to stand on in the CHS lawsuit. Instead, they sat on it and a 3rd party released one before them.

Also GW leave models unmade for quite long periods. They can't complain that 3rd parties are scooping them. Seeing as they develop the codex months before release, what exactly is the reason for them not releasing, or even telling people they intend to release, the Thunderwolves for the Space Wolves over a year after the codex was published? And rather unfortunately, of the many Thunderwolf alternatives out there, the GW ones aren't even the nicest looking ones given the massive delay.