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Okay, basically I took a 7ish year hiatus from the hobby. Coming back, I delved back in. Alot's changed. I primarily play in GW's due to them being more common about where I live than flgs. Here's the thing that drives me mad though.

When the hell did these god damned citadel gaming boards become standard?

Seriously, I love Warhammer fantasy and these damned things ram 3ish hills, usually into peoples deployment. It's gotten to the point that newer players look at me funny when I remind them hills are a terrain piece, not just a thing that's always there.

Add in that they follow citadels wierd obsession with skulls (seriously, in the ground, on the walls, even in the cieling) and we have a board that is full of dice cocking crevices and match balance altering hills. Ok rant over.

So what do you think dakka? Am I just getting my crazy all over the internet?

MY FLGS has one citadel board, which is used almost exclusively for Warmachine (the irony ..)

We also have a huge closet full of scenery, mats and other good gubbins for WHFB and 40K

Can't really say much on the GW store front for it being a standard, as there isn't a fething GW store in my state, and only two i know of within a days's drive.

I'd not be shocked if they are required to use the gaming boards though, and only use Citadel scenery..

you may be getting a little crazy, but yeah....people don't play enough at home with home made terrain, I get that.

To me..the WORST thing about the hobby is the vocal 10% or so "HATERS" who complain about EVERYTHING GW. "This" is overpriced, "GW" is greedy, "IT USED TO BE BETTER". It seems like to me that when people run out of money or are on the brink of leaving the hobby due to whatever, they spend the last year complaining about the hobby and talking garbage about GW.

I fail to understand why if you hate something so much that you spend any time thinking or discussing it. Negative people in general bug me and GW detractors are the worst because they are usually pretty smart and come up with these logical sounding arguments about GW is the devil. Honestly, they are a company trying to make money and provide an awesome line of product at the same time. If you don't like it....go play a different game or better yet, just go away.

 Ascalam wrote:


MY FLGS has one citadel board, which is used almost exclusively for Warmachine (the irony ..)

We also have a huge closet full of scenery, mats and other good gubbins for WHFB and 40K

Can't really say much on the GW store front for it being a standard, as there isn't a fething GW store in my state, and only two i know of within a days's drive.

I'd not be shocked if they are required to use the gaming boards though, and only use Citadel scenery..

Yeah it's citadel only scenery, they typically won't let people use scratch built stuff. I can get them restricting the models, it's no different to restraunts getting pissy if people start eating thier own sandwiches, but the fact that they have a wonderfull habbit of cluttering the fantasy tables with 5-10 scenery pieces ontop of the moulded in hills is grating.

GW abandoned the hobby aspect (except painting) to concentrate on selling molded plastic (with as much skull detailing as inhumanly possible).

What really irritates me is that the painting articles have now stopped too (in WD this month, it was you need these paints for your Daemons and that was it) so they can sell painting guides for your ipad (which of course everyone owns).

I, for one, think the Citadel Realm of Battle board is pretty neat. It's beautifully sculpted and you can do a lot with it. But the price? Nyeeeehhhhh......

While I'm sure other people will gladly tell you this, the reason why Games Workshop uses the RoB as a standard is so that when people play on it they think, "Wow! This thing is great! Where do I get one!". It's advertising, really. Do I think it's right? Not really. As for the skull obsession... it's a bit over the top with how some people set them up as. When I see the RoB made up as grasslands I wonder "Where did all of those fething skulls come from? Is this world secretly corrupted by Khornate worshipers?". The skull pits take the cake, really.

Plus, I'm the kind of guy who thinks that you should craft your own board. The RoB is great if you have the money and want to create a hellish landscape. But a hand crafted board always impresses me more (My favorite being City Scapes. I always loved a properly ruined city). That being said, I've been wowed by the things people have done with it.

I also think the built in hills are odd as well. They're cool, yes, but I wish they supplied additional tiles that were flat. (They do have tiles that lack them but it's going to cost you extra).

almostreal wrote:
you may be getting a little crazy, but yeah....people don't play enough at home with home made terrain, I get that.

To me..the WORST thing about the hobby is the vocal 10% or so "HATERS" who complain about EVERYTHING GW. "This" is overpriced, "GW" is greedy, "IT USED TO BE BETTER". It seems like to me that when people run out of money or are on the brink of leaving the hobby due to whatever, they spend the last year complaining about the hobby and talking garbage about GW.

I fail to understand why if you hate something so much that you spend any time thinking or discussing it. Negative people in general bug me and GW detractors are the worst because they are usually pretty smart and come up with these logical sounding arguments about GW is the devil. Honestly, they are a company trying to make money and provide an awesome line of product at the same time. If you don't like it....go play a different game or better yet, just go away.

Er....was that aimed at me?

Because If it was, you're well of the mark. I wouldn't be on a GW heavy wargaming if I was now would I?

Why even bring it up? Nobody here is stating that GW is greedy/evil/EATING MY GOLD. I was just stating my dismay that a product that I personally feel is inferior has become standard issue for a large wargaming companies stores, and seeing if anyone agreed/disagreed/felt my sexual orientation was at question.

almostreal wrote:
you may be getting a little crazy, but yeah....people don't play enough at home with home made terrain, I get that.

To me..the WORST thing about the hobby is the vocal 10% or so "HATERS" who complain about EVERYTHING GW. "This" is overpriced, "GW" is greedy, "IT USED TO BE BETTER". It seems like to me that when people run out of money or are on the brink of leaving the hobby due to whatever, they spend the last year complaining about the hobby and talking garbage about GW.

I fail to understand why if you hate something so much that you spend any time thinking or discussing it. Negative people in general bug me and GW detractors are the worst because they are usually pretty smart and come up with these logical sounding arguments about GW is the devil. Honestly, they are a company trying to make money and provide an awesome line of product at the same time. If you don't like it....go play a different game or better yet, just go away.

Reading this rather angry post.. I have to ask, did you buy one of those boards, and have only now finally realised that it's an over-priced piece of gak.. ?

I hate those boards. Dice do not roll correctly on them. They always get stuck and then you gotta re-roll, and then it gets stuck again or it goes off the table ... Yeesh.

 Noisy_Marine wrote:
I hate those boards. Dice do not roll correctly on them. They always get stuck and then you gotta re-roll, and then it gets stuck again or it goes off the table ... Yeesh.

To be fair, that's because they are modular and staff often don't push them together enough....or players nudge them apart and make crevices. Evil, dice eating crevices. The hills don't help though.

 Noisy_Marine wrote:
I hate those boards. Dice do not roll correctly on them. They always get stuck and then you gotta re-roll, and then it gets stuck again or it goes off the table ... Yeesh.

Probably shouldn't be rolling dice on them anyway to be honest. My biggest gripe is the price.

brettz123 wrote:

 Noisy_Marine wrote:
I hate those boards. Dice do not roll correctly on them. They always get stuck and then you gotta re-roll, and then it gets stuck again or it goes off the table ... Yeesh.

Probably shouldn't be rolling dice on them anyway to be honest. My biggest gripe is the price.

Yeah, they are expensive to boot. And why shouldn't I be rolling dice on a gaming table? Where the hell else should I roll them, the floor?

almostreal wrote:
you may be getting a little crazy, but yeah....people don't play enough at home with home made terrain, I get that.

To me..the WORST thing about the hobby is the vocal 10% or so "HATERS" who complain about EVERYTHING GW. "This" is overpriced, "GW" is greedy, "IT USED TO BE BETTER". It seems like to me that when people run out of money or are on the brink of leaving the hobby due to whatever, they spend the last year complaining about the hobby and talking garbage about GW.

I fail to understand why if you hate something so much that you spend any time thinking or discussing it. Negative people in general bug me and GW detractors are the worst because they are usually pretty smart and come up with these logical sounding arguments about GW is the devil. Honestly, they are a company trying to make money and provide an awesome line of product at the same time. If you don't like it....go play a different game or better yet, just go away.

Well said, this sums this tread up

Mr Mugguffins wrote:

brettz123 wrote:

 Noisy_Marine wrote:
I hate those boards. Dice do not roll correctly on them. They always get stuck and then you gotta re-roll, and then it gets stuck again or it goes off the table ... Yeesh.

Probably shouldn't be rolling dice on them anyway to be honest. My biggest gripe is the price.

Yeah, they are expensive to boot. And why shouldn't I be rolling dice on a gaming table? Where the hell else should I roll them, the floor?

In a box lid, a nearby other table...

There are a few things that are lame about GW right now.
1. I would really like to see a little balance in the game.
that said, this would not be an issue if there were less neck-beards who think that skill at 40k is exemplified by running out and buying the newest brutal netlist. But the BEST possible fix would be the addition of more balance to the game system.
2. All the whiners. There are a small and very vocal minority of whiners that you will run into. Just avoid these people like they have nurgles rot and your experience will be greatly improved.

I find that playing just for fun games with middle of the road lists improves my games experience. avoid games with neckbeards and avoid tournaments without a comp system and you can mitigate most of the issues with playing GW games.

In your case i would suggest a dice box or tower. It keeps the die flat and facilitates keeping the game board free of extrenuous dice.

Mr Mugguffins wrote:
Okay, basically I took a 7ish year hiatus from the hobby. Coming back, I delved back in. Alot's changed. I primarily play in GW's due to them being more common about where I live than flgs. Here's the thing that drives me mad though.

When the hell did these god damned citadel gaming boards become standard?

Seriously, I love Warhammer fantasy and these damned things ram 3ish hills, usually into peoples deployment. It's gotten to the point that newer players look at me funny when I remind them hills are a terrain piece, not just a thing that's always there.

Add in that they follow citadels wierd obsession with skulls (seriously, in the ground, on the walls, even in the cieling) and we have a board that is full of dice cocking crevices and match balance altering hills. Ok rant over.

So what do you think dakka? Am I just getting my crazy all over the internet?

I have no interest in them tbh. I like an old school hand made game table. Have never played on one actually...

I do think that the hills on the board in question are a little excessive. It looks like the center of an earthquake zone. Anyway, if your looking for cheap scenery try any pet store. Aquarium plants, rock faces, I've even seen little stone walls that looked amazing for $3 a piece.

If your sick of the dice getting stuck, get something like liquid nails and glue a box lid to the side of the board for dice rolling.

I have a Zuzzy battle mat, and I have a ROBB. My original idea was that I'd take my ROBB over to my friends house. Once it arrived I realized I was a fool, because there is no way that thing is ever leaving my house. It weighs 30 pounds, which doesn't seem like much, c'mon, 30 pounds what kind of wuss can't lift that? No, bro. See, I also would have to bring over my folding table, and had visions of one-handing it. I guess the way I should of thought of it was, am I strong enough to carry my folding table in one arm and 4 gallons of milk in the other? I might be able to, but I certainly will not want to.

And, since it's never leaving the house, I should have just made my own out of insulation. Ah well, what's done is done.

That being said, I do like it. I don't have issues with dice bouncing of crevices - you guys know it comes with clips to hold the sections together, right? and the skull pits and hills don't bother me.

But, if I could do it over again, I'd get another Zuzzy map instead.

Mr Mugguffins wrote:

brettz123 wrote:

 Noisy_Marine wrote:
I hate those boards. Dice do not roll correctly on them. They always get stuck and then you gotta re-roll, and then it gets stuck again or it goes off the table ... Yeesh.

Probably shouldn't be rolling dice on them anyway to be honest. My biggest gripe is the price.

Yeah, they are expensive to boot. And why shouldn't I be rolling dice on a gaming table? Where the hell else should I roll them, the floor?

Our gaming table is even worse than the GW ones for catching dice at awkward angles. Dice towers have been a godsend.

almostreal wrote:
you may be getting a little crazy, but yeah....people don't play enough at home with home made terrain, I get that.

To me..the WORST thing about the hobby is the vocal 10% or so "HATERS" who complain about EVERYTHING GW. "This" is overpriced, "GW" is greedy, "IT USED TO BE BETTER". It seems like to me that when people run out of money or are on the brink of leaving the hobby due to whatever, they spend the last year complaining about the hobby and talking garbage about GW.

I fail to understand why if you hate something so much that you spend any time thinking or discussing it. Negative people in general bug me and GW detractors are the worst because they are usually pretty smart and come up with these logical sounding arguments about GW is the devil. Honestly, they are a company trying to make money and provide an awesome line of product at the same time. If you don't like it....go play a different game or better yet, just go away.

I think you are a little off the mark. Not all out and out wrong, but a little stepping the "Haters goona hate" aspect.

I'm not even going to go into nitpicking every little thing, because on the surface, you have a point.

On other aspects, your wrong, and heres why- ( to one particular mod...)

The first point is about the price-

Alot of players got into the game when it was a fiver for a squad, and a tenner for a vehicle. As you evolve through the 3-6th edition, and are looking at it from nastalga perspective, it is easy to get bitter over the price- especially when you are not seeing the same amount of care and quality going into the product, and seeing more of the sales pitch being slung your way- when a ways back you were seeing the salesmens pitch being spun from a gaming perspective.

Face it GW is grown into a multimillion doller/ GBP/ EURO overfed sloth. They have to be to have as steady a business as they have, and not worry if they lose some customers, to gain others, and venture into uncharted territory and push envelopes, and all the while spin it in a positive business perspective. Becuase in the end- slow and steady wins the race.

the second point is about thier vibe.

We don't like some of thier practices, because quite simply- they have changed. I could easily sit here and spout off all of that "Get off my lawn!" stuff, but to put it in easy, no haters gonna hate discussion- This is not the same game that we ( general we, as in older players) were brought up on. You started off with a game that was a hybrid RPG- Miniatures game that you had literally dozens of charts, graphs, and choices that you could go down to the shops, pick up reasonably cheap( for the time period) figures from any company, and they were what you had to play. Emphisis on the play. We didn't worry about that outright hostility that GW evolved to the point that WYSIWYG is verboten, simply because we didn't have 50-80% of the choices that were needed to complete the figure range, so in essence- nessesity dictated that you bought whatever to fit the mold of the figures you want. ( Want to talk about charts? Two titles- Slaves to Darkness, and Freebooters, comes to mind.)

so in short- GW didn't have the figure range, so it was open season. NOW? GW needs to sell figures to stay relevent, so they by order of survivle have limited the figure choices to thier exclusive range, and 3d parties be damned.( sory, not to be personal, but this is by order of the GW corperate business side of the coin...)

As for prices.... Let someone else wack that mole.


But thats my points on the conversation. Yes, players, older ones, that is, are bitter- but they are not the target audience that the game is now directed at. So of course, they put in all that time and effort, only to be told to suck it, of course they are going to be bitter.


Get off my lawn!

@grotsnot or whatever your monika is...

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

When i encounter whiners i always ask "So how much for your army?" They reply its not for sale, i reply then "If your going to keep plaaying then shut it.

Keep in mind that GW obviously hopes to make 40K become as much mainstream and non-niche as possible (I assume) to maximize sales.

The target audience is younger kids/teens not grizzled vets. Newcomers to the world of wargaming have a hard enough time learning all the rules, collecting a fully built army and painting it, etc., etc. much less learning the skills of table/terrain building (which is in itself its own hobby with its own costs, time requirements and skill requirements).

The battleboards allow young timmy (or someone buying him a gift) to buy a game surface that he has no knowledge/motivation/skill to build on his own, or perhaps he has a lack of decicated gaming/storage space, or who perhaps he wants to be able to take to little Billy's house for the 40K sleepover party, etc.

Many people have no desire to build terrain/tables nor the room/tools/skills/space to do so. The battle boards are for them. People with money but no time/skill/desire can buy an acceptable surface to play on if they choose.

But the problem is that there is no alternative set up for the kids coming into the wargaming hobby.

All they see in WD is page after page of the RoB board. And while I'm sure a lot of kids would want that board, ask yourself (and thinking back to when you were younger) would you spend the money on that obscene price tag, when there are so many other minis on sale? The kids will choose the minis every time, and in the meantime there are no more simple tutorials (as you used to have), to present a cheaper option for people who want to play but don't have the money for the RoB board.

When I got into the hobby, terrain building was an essential part of it and there were plenty of tutorials in WD, even events in the stores where you could build your own stuff. What will they do now? Treat terrain building as some kind of Pandora's box, that must not be opened, because it will mean that the opportunity to flog people ridiculously over-priced pre-built boards and terrain will be lost.

I agree that the RoB does have its uses. I'm glad its on sale, and like you say CT Gamer there are many reasons why it could be a viable option. What I dislike, is that its existence (as well as the other terrain pieces) seem to have completely closed off other avenues of terrain creation as far as Games Workshop is concerned. Previously it was an (admittedly less often explored) part of the 'hobby' experience, but now there will now be a lot of gamers coming into GW games that will not learn those skills, and benefit from the enjoyment of crafting your own terrain.

I think that with less than £50, a trip to a DIY store and perhaps a local model shop/hobbycraft, any kid could be shown how to make a board that is far superior to the RoB board and will also give them a far greater sense of fulfilment through it's creation - and for many of us, I think that is one of the greatest pleasures this hobby can bring.

 Pacific wrote:
But the problem is that there is no alternative set up for the kids coming into the wargaming hobby.

GW sells an alternative. It's right there on the shelf. The battlemat.

And it's a damn good product and, funnily enough, well priced for what you get.

 Pacific wrote:
But the problem is that there is no alternative set up for the kids coming into the wargaming hobby.

All they see in WD is page after page of the RoB board. And while I'm sure a lot of kids would want that board, ask yourself (and thinking back to when you were younger) would you spend the money on that obscene price tag, when there are so many other minis on sale? The kids will choose the minis every time, and in the meantime there are no more simple tutorials (as you used to have), to present a cheaper option for people who want to play but don't have the money for the RoB board.

When I got into the hobby, terrain building was an essential part of it and there were plenty of tutorials in WD, even events in the stores where you could build your own stuff. What will they do now? Treat terrain building as some kind of Pandora's box, that must not be opened, because it will mean that the opportunity to flog people ridiculously over-priced pre-built boards and terrain will be lost.

I agree that the RoB does have its uses. I'm glad its on sale, and like you say CT Gamer there are many reasons why it could be a viable option. What I dislike, is that its existence (as well as the other terrain pieces) seem to have completely closed off other avenues of terrain creation as far as Games Workshop is concerned. Previously it was an (admittedly less often explored) part of the 'hobby' experience, but now there will now be a lot of gamers coming into GW games that will not learn those skills, and benefit from the enjoyment of crafting your own terrain.

I think that with less than £50, a trip to a DIY store and perhaps a local model shop/hobbycraft, any kid could be shown how to make a board that is far superior to the RoB board and will also give them a far greater sense of fulfilment through it's creation - and for many of us, I think that is one of the greatest pleasures this hobby can bring.

i agree with you: I love to build tables and terrain myself (though I do love the GW kits as well).

But it is not something that everyone is motivated to do, and it can also be seen as a deterrant to getting into the hobby for some.

As GW sees it (I think) they are giving people the option of purchasing a table/terrain set up indicative of the setting and similar ot those timmy sees in the books/GW art, etc.

For some money is no obstacle, and GW now gives them the option of buying a 40K battlefield from the ground up.

I don't see options/choice as a bad thing.

I also don't see it as GW responsibility to teach/inform people of ways to bypass/replace their products. To be fair, what other company publishes a magazine filled with how to articles on ways replace/ avoid the need for their products?

GW is a terrain manufacturer now, more so then ever, why are they honor bound to uphold old ways of doing things if they provide products that serve the same purpose? The expectation for them to do so is ludicrous...

 Flashman wrote:

What really irritates me is that the painting articles have now stopped too (in WD this month, it was you need these paints for your Daemons and that was it) so they can sell painting guides for your ipad (which of course everyone owns).

THIS

I remember there being "Citadel Masterclasses" in WD, which was a 4-5 page feature which ran you through all the techniques used to paint a single model. Each stage/part had a detailed guide with a picture for each step. They were actually really, really good. I still have the Dreadlord on Cold One which I used the Masterclass for and it remains as one of my best painted models, despite being around 4 years old. That's how good they were.

Now of course, the best you get is: "Leadbelcher Base, Agrax Earthshade Shade etc etc". And even that's rare. It sucks.

If I wrote about the top things I hate about GW these days, the realm of battle, if it made the list, would be way down the list. Also, I've never considered the mountains as dt, just our style here I guess.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
But the problem is that there is no alternative set up for the kids coming into the wargaming hobby.

GW sells an alternative. It's right there on the shelf. The battlemat.

And it's a damn good product and, funnily enough, well priced for what you get.

I love my battlemat, it is awesome and works a treat.

I think the worst thing is the lack of hype and overly secretive releases. I understand how the LotR and Hobbit films want(ed) to not reveal how characters will look but let us know about other projects that aren't someone else's work. In which case I mean 40k/WHFB or even the 'specialist games' like Space Hulk. $0 in advertising might help the bottom line but it also means the product doesn't get sold because noone knows about it to buy it. I don't keep my ear to the ground regarding rumors or interweb banter.

I remember hearing one idea was that it's all about the impulse but for me my impulse is in planning how much I can spend in a given month and if a video game comes out before a GW wave that I knew nothing about then GW it going to have to wait for me to put aside next month's allotted $$.