Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey everyone!

So i was noticing that land speeders are one of things that are effected largely by the 6th edition rules. I was curious if anyone out there had been including them in their 6th edition lists and if you find them as viable in their lists with these new rules? I'm hoping to weigh the pros and cons here with some hard evidence and experience to back it up. Looking forward to discussion!

Pros: can move 12" and fire 2 weapons, 5+ jink save, 4+ if you move flat out.

Cons: fairly fragile, only 2 HPs

I run BT typhoon land speeders, I usually keep them in the backfield for extra long range support. They're very cheap for BTs (and DA). I would think twice about using standard SM land speeder as they are more costly, there might be better ways to spend the points.

Squadron rules are better for them now.

If you were using them as suicide units, not much has changed. You get your shot, then blow up. With the jink save you might actualy live.

You could aways be brought down by massed small arms, so the glanced to death thing is nothing new. And a pen generaly took you out of the game anyway.

6th changed the number of wapons you could shoot on the move, opening up new loadouts. With directional wound allocation, the value of mobile firesupport went up.

Speeders have always been good, and still are.

They can move further and shoot more stuff than they used to be able to. They also had added defenses.

Better? Worse? Depends on your army and list.

 Nevelon wrote:
Squadron rules are better for them now.

If you were using them as suicide units, not much has changed. You get your shot, then blow up. With the jink save you might actualy live.

You could aways be brought down by massed small arms, so the glanced to death thing is nothing new. And a pen generaly took you out of the game anyway.

6th changed the number of wapons you could shoot on the move, opening up new loadouts. With directional wound allocation, the value of mobile firesupport went up.

Speeders have always been good, and still are.

This is exactly right. They were good before, and they're still good now. Perhaps even better.

Yup, I would say gaining a free 5+ save is pretty awsome.

So before I could move 12" and fire either frag missiles and the HB with my typhoon, or krak missiles. Now I can move 12" and shoot both!
Whilst 2 glances kills my speeders, I found unless i was pretty lucky 2 glances crippled most of my speeders or at least set them up for death the next turn by stunning etc.
And now I have a 5+ cover save, and a 4+ on flat out

So my Typhoon shoots more, gained a natural cover save and is just as paper thin as it was before? Sweeeeet

I used them a lot in 5'th anyways and they were always star performers. Now they are beasts with a guaranteed save. And 12" shooting everything. And 1 glance isn't making them useless now so even better. You really only have 2 options on how to use them though. Up close and personal suicide units. Or as long range fire support bases.

Love that you can deep strike and fire two weapons with them. They are still fragile but I'm having success with dropping single speeders in.

I have begun playing with a few landspeeders as well in my Sw army, and they have performed quite well.

One new tactic I've been using in 6'th is to have one of my Rune Priests take master of runes (2 powers a turn), and then take Divination powers, hoping i get some one of the good buffs, and then taking the primaris power. My longfangs are pretty happy being twinlinked, but it works wonders on Landspeeders as well.

Last game i fielded 2 Typhoons and a tornado - that squad was 4 missiles and 4 HB (12 shots), that was alot of twinlinked firepower for one buff; compared to my Longfang squads with either 5 missiles or 2 plasma cannon / 2 HB - and they can move and shoot!

I ussually play my SM army agresivly with drop pods backed up by long fangs. However, in 5th edition I found it that I was quite naked withouth melta suport and landspeeders provide that.

The melta/flamer landspeeder was and stil is a bargain for it's points. I also supose the thyfoon landspeeder is equaly good.

 Wildstorm wrote:
Love that you can deep strike and fire two weapons with them. They are still fragile but I'm having success with dropping single speeders in.

This is exactly what i intended to do with them. Im glad to hear its been working out. Last game i played, they did phenomenal but i didnt like the 6" less flat out movement. It proved a little more tricky to keep them hidden or gain strategic placement to get within half range for my melta weapons on the following turn. However, i did not deep strike them in this game, so that is to be expected. Next game I am going to give the deepstrike melta blast tactic and see how i like that. My only fear is that if they miss or if they fail to destroy their target (assuming they both arrive together) That they might be easy pray and end up as point served up to my enemy. Thoughts?

I play Ravenwing, and I run 7 of them. At first I thought two hull points was a nerf, then I realized that almost all hits on landspeeders are penetrating hits anyway, and rarely did they survive more than 2 hits. So being able to fire 2 weapons at 12" and a 5+ jink save should more than make up for the fact you are weaker to massed bolter fire.

Do you also run Sammael in a speeder volkov? I've just picked up his model, but now I'm thinking I should have bought a speeder and stuck a book to it. 14 front and side armor seems pretty kick ass and i didn't even consider that they have jink now on top of that.

Where is the rule that lets them shoot on deep striking and that lets them shoot 2 weapons after moving 12in?

Marshall Ragnar wrote:
Where is the rule that lets them shoot on deep striking and that lets them shoot 2 weapons after moving 12in?

Fast skimmer rules in vehicle types section of the BRB for the two guns thing.

I'd have to sift through the rules for a specific cite on the deep striking thing. IIRC, you count as moving at combat speed when you DS.

Nevelon is correct, DS means that vehicles count as having moved at Combat Speed when it comes to shooting. So speeders are happily firing away! =)

Love em, I have a typhoon and tornado pattern. Typhoon usually patrols my deployment zone shooting off ML's while I like to deep strike the tornado pattern in the enemy deployment zone and spam HB/AC shots into vulnerable back armor.

Gaffy wrote:
I have begun playing with a few landspeeders as well in my Sw army, and they have performed quite well.

One new tactic I've been using in 6'th is to have one of my Rune Priests take master of runes (2 powers a turn), and then take Divination powers, hoping i get some one of the good buffs, and then taking the primaris power. My longfangs are pretty happy being twinlinked, but it works wonders on Landspeeders as well.

Last game i fielded 2 Typhoons and a tornado - that squad was 4 missiles and 4 HB (12 shots), that was alot of twinlinked firepower for one buff; compared to my Longfang squads with either 5 missiles or 2 plasma cannon / 2 HB - and they can move and shoot!

I dont think you can have a more than one typhoon in a squad in a SW list.

Being able to fire the second weapon really opens up the tornado patterns. I am curious if one of them will become more popular now. I am pretty sure multi-melta and heavy flamers will be gone now. I know one person at my shop likes to field double heavy bolters and now can move them 12' and fire.

AV10 was shredded at the end of 5th with ML spam and psyflman dreads being common. At long range I don't think they have gotten any weaker.
While they can die to hull points, they also get a 5+ cover, so I think its a wash.

On the other hand, being able to move 12" and shoot both weapons is a plus.

 labmouse42 wrote:
AV10 was shredded at the end of 5th with ML spam and psyflman dreads being common. At long range I don't think they have gotten any weaker.
While they can die to hull points, they also get a 5+ cover, so I think its a wash.

On the other hand, being able to move 12" and shoot both weapons is a plus.

Nonsense, it's not about the unit, it's about your list.

If you're only vehicles are cardboard boxes, of course they are going to die, but take two drop pods with ironclads, plus an extra pod for that first turn drop and suddenly your landspeeders tend to last the whole game.

Any other combo works well, but as said, it depends on the army list and composition.

 juraigamer wrote:
If you're only vehicles are cardboard boxes, of course they are going to die, but take two drop pods with ironclads, plus an extra pod for that first turn drop and suddenly your landspeeders tend to last the whole game.

Any other combo works well, but as said, it depends on the army list and composition.

Respectfully, I disagree.

The trick of target priority is using the right tool for the job. If someone drops a ironclad next to my psy-dread, I'm going to move 6" back and target the speeders. Why shoot at a target which you have a 1/3 chance of removing a HP and 1/3 of causing a pen hit on, when you can target something and virtually guarantee taking down 1-2. Only an inexperienced player will overreact to the ironclads. The smart player will address the ironclads with melta-bombs or meltaguns.

Now, we are no longer in the end of 5th edition, so the changing meta will have an impact on the survivability of speeders.

I have been running 2 Typhoons in my backfield and DSing a Tornado and it has worked quite well with both units earning thier points back at a minimum (4 games with them in 6th). I even had some amazing success DSing the Typhoon (ML and MM for both) on the only time I tried in 6th and ended up immediately smoking a Monolith on arrival (addmitedly I had exceptional rolls against it but there you are, nothing ventured, nothing gained) then wrecking his Doomsday Ark before they were wiped out. As all the previous posters have said they do appear more than worth it so far.

Do you also run Sammael in a speeder volkov? I've just picked up his model, but now I'm thinking I should have bought a speeder and stuck a book to it. 14 front and side armor seems pretty kick ass and i didn't even consider that they have jink now on top of that.

I do run him in the Speeder. I have played a couple times with the jetbike but it has been a disappointment every time. The speeder is just relaibly bad ass.

Something that deserves an honorable mention since I havent seen it brought up in this thread- drop pod with locator bacon+ speeders. DSing MM speeders accurately. Drop a pair or pods (duel ironclads or normal dreads is pretty choice) with locator bacon for you MM speeders. Also helps the dreads survive- shoot the dread, get speedered. Shoot the pod, you'll get dreaded and possibly speedered. It's a nice little strat I recommend people try at least once, if they have the models available...

Trozen wrote:
50a9b2d187c62a89cf06265d0ec89180.jpg

Gaffy wrote:
I have begun playing with a few landspeeders as well in my Sw army, and they have performed quite well.

One new tactic I've been using in 6'th is to have one of my Rune Priests take master of runes (2 powers a turn), and then take Divination powers, hoping i get some one of the good buffs, and then taking the primaris power. My longfangs are pretty happy being twinlinked, but it works wonders on Landspeeders as well.

Last game i fielded 2 Typhoons and a tornado - that squad was 4 missiles and 4 HB (12 shots), that was alot of twinlinked firepower for one buff; compared to my Longfang squads with either 5 missiles or 2 plasma cannon / 2 HB - and they can move and shoot!

I dont think you can have a more than one typhoon in a squad in a SW list.

Being able to fire the second weapon really opens up the tornado patterns. I am curious if one of them will become more popular now. I am pretty sure multi-melta and heavy flamers will be gone now. I know one person at my shop likes to field double heavy bolters and now can move them 12' and fire.

Hmm, you might be right - I guess it depends on how you read the entry:

It says (after the Tornado upgrades): "Alternatively a Landspeeder may be upgraded to a Landspeeder Typhoon armed with the following", I take this to mean that any landspeeder can be upgraded, since every other place in the codex you may only take one (special weapons on TWC etc,) it explicitly says "one may". Would love more input on this!

It does not say any, it says "a". This has been talked about in the YMDC forum, do a search there if you want more information on the this issue.

 Volkov wrote:

Do you also run Sammael in a speeder volkov? I've just picked up his model, but now I'm thinking I should have bought a speeder and stuck a book to it. 14 front and side armor seems pretty kick ass and i didn't even consider that they have jink now on top of that.

I do run him in the Speeder. I have played a couple times with the jetbike but it has been a disappointment every time. The speeder is just relaibly bad ass.

yeah on the jetbike (although its one of the coolest models in the game IMHO) he seems to be split too far between CC and shooting his big guns, plus I always miss with my plasma cannon, I'm defiantly going to have to switch to the speeder.

I've run a par of MM/HF speeders in my SW list since 5th. They still usually kill whatever they're supposed to. This new Jink save they get means they've actually survived a couple of turns. The other great thing is that the new reserve rules mean they will come in and do their job early in the game on a more regular basis.

I was looking into running two kitted out speeders with all the toys and a cheap no upgrades one whose main job is to be closest and move flat out for the improved save, or if not worried about return fire pop off a shot.