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I personally think that Rangers are hands down the best point for point. They are good at making their money back now that precision shot has been added. I can finally protect my wraith lord from those pesky missile launcher troops. I'd love to hear what my fellow players and the pros think.

Pathfinders are great if they can find decent cover. However, there are some cover-save ignoring weapons (Whirlwind, Thundercannon, etc.) out there that can annihilate them quickly.

Second are Dire Avengers (10 men with bladestorm) if transported in a Serpent.

Third are Guardian Jetbikes (6 men with 2 shuricannons and a Warlock with embolden).

Guardians on foot are useful only if walking in the Avatar's fearlessness bubble.

Wraithguard is an option, but only in an Iyanden army, with Wraithseer and Wraithlords.

i've been using a 3 man jetbike squad, and they have been doing really well for being so low points cost. Granted their only job is holding an objective. I vote best troop choice is jetbike, followed by regular guardians.

Is the "Which Eldar Heavy Support choice do you think is the best in 6th edition?" thread next?

 TheCaptain wrote:
Is the "Which Eldar Heavy Support choice do you think is the best in 6th edition?" thread next?

Already done one of those buddy

warpspider89 wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:
Is the "Which Eldar Heavy Support choice do you think is the best in 6th edition?" thread next?

Already done one of those buddy

HAH.

Just make one thread. This is a tad silly. It'll be a lot easier for posters to answer condensed, consolidated, cohesive answers.

For instance:

lb for lb, the Leman Russ Demolisher is probably the best tank for IG. But to a degree, it needs an army shaped for it.

Same with many codex entries.

Fire dragons are probably the best Elite choice for eldar, but not if you're running a jetbike army.

Hmm... I'm building an Eldar army and looking for advice. So you are saying rather than investigating individual unit opinions I should go for one super question about an imagined framework?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCaptain wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:
Is the "Which Eldar Heavy Support choice do you think is the best in 6th edition?" thread next?

Already done one of those buddy

HAH.

Just make one thread. This is a tad silly. It'll be a lot easier for posters to answer condensed, consolidated, cohesive answers.

For instance:

lb for lb, the Leman Russ Demolisher is probably the best tank for IG. But to a degree, it needs an army shaped for it.

Same with many codex entries.

Fire dragons are probably the best Elite choice for eldar, but not if you're running a jetbike army.

I don't know how I would ask. I am new to dakkadakka. I am building Alaitoc army with a spread of unit types for variety since I don't know the general Eldar army strategies. What would I ask like "looking for a kick ass lesson on using Eldar? Lol"

If you want advice on making your army, come up with a basic list, post it in the army list section, and ask for improvements.

Personally, I prefer pathfinders, but it depends on your army list.

... Except Storm Guardians. Useless, storm guardians....

I like just polling people's opinions for advice. People like the person above me leave lots of fun comments.

So much for the fluffed up triple flamer squad eh? Haha

I think it's a good idea for us to be having new discussions on each FOC slot as my choices have actually changed a good deal.

I think Troops is by far our weakest slot. We have soft troops that stuggle to contribute much to the battle if they are to survive long enough to score objectives. Combined with not being able to score from inside tanks we have it pretty rough in this aspect of 6th imo. The only troops unit we have that is tough enough to live long is WG, but now that they can only claim a single objective their use in this way has suffered.

Dire Avengers are still solid at anti-infantry and are a bit tougher than our other options for the points they cost. Guardians are a bit more multi-purpose with their Scatter Laser and EML access. GJBs are better than ever at snatching objectives and they even survive better due to having plenty of movement to get out of LOS. Rangers are decent but too pricey in my opinion. But with precision AP1, their new snap shots allowing them to move a bit and still shoot and their ability to threaten AV 10&11, I still find myself running 1-2 min squads. Storms I haven't used in 6th, but they worked very well for me in 5th. Overwatch should make them very solid against units that can't shoot, like Tyranids. Flame them and then let them charge you through cover--you kill a lot, then more in overwatch and then you hit at I4 while they wait till I1.

All in all, I think there are still reasons to take any of our troops, but we should be taking more of them and protecting them better. I think this is unfortunate because they do very little damage compared to troops from any other codex.

Pathfinders because they can threaten anything (theoretically) from medium range and still enjoy an excellent stealth save.

Guardians.

I always take at least 2 squads.

They're versatile, with support weapon choices
they're resilient, with a conceal warlock
they're cheap
they're big threats once in range

I am glad so many people are voting gjb. They are by far the best troop choice right now. With t4 and a 3+ armor save, combined with jink saves, crazy movement, and re-rolling leadership from embolden they are easily the best in the codex for jumping to objectives late game, and once there of surving some light enemy retaliation.

Troops need to score and gjb are the best at it.

Rangers are expensive, but they are static and need to hold the same objective all game. All the while being painfully vulnerable to flamers.

Dire avengers and storm guardians need a transport, which gives them conditional maneuverability. They can pack more offensive punch, but individually they are far more frail. Which you will feel on an objective.

Wraithguard cost near 400 points to score. Are slow as he'll, and can only hold one objective.

A variety of rules let gjb take objectives, the issue is they don't make as good general combat units as dire avengers or storm guardians. But taking objectives is what wins you games.

Gjb also do work well in any eldar army focused on speed. This includes mech fire dragons and other mechanized troops. Eldar need to be builtfocusing on either keeping everything slow or everything fast. Speed synergy is what allows eldar to focus their firepower and reach objectives anywhere on the board.

I voted guardian jetbikes. More specifically:
134- 3 guardian jetbikes+warlock- shuriken cannon, singing spear, embolden

Ive only used GJBs 3 times in 6th but they were awesome. I proxied mine but I would run them every game if I weren't waiting on a new sculpt. I agree on every point you mentioned plus the improved JSJ capabilities and crazy low cost if you just want 3 with a ShuCan. They're a good place to stick a Farseer with Psychic Shriek too.

 dnanoodle wrote:
Ive only used GJBs 3 times in 6th but they were awesome. I proxied mine but I would run them every game if I weren't waiting on a new sculpt. I agree on every point you mentioned plus the improved JSJ capabilities and crazy low cost if you just want 3 with a ShuCan. They're a good place to stick a Farseer with Psychic Shriek too.

If you take GJBs, consider a small squadron and attach Autarch on jetbike with a laserlance.
This is an awesome weapon.

I'm still not sold onGJB
3 bikes plus cannon is almost 80 pts, we're talkin 7 shot, 4 of which are tl
10 guardians with cannon, just over 80 points, 23 shots but not TL

it's all BS3, not sure if 1T and a bit of speed is worth losing that many wounds.

dpal666 wrote:
I'm still not sold onGJB
3 bikes plus cannon is almost 80 pts, we're talkin 7 shot, 4 of which are tl
10 guardians with cannon, just over 80 points, 23 shots but not TL

it's all BS3, not sure if 1T and a bit of speed is worth losing that many wounds.

you aren't paying for the guns, you never were. What you have is a small squad of scoring models with t4 3+ saves which can move across nearly the entire table in a single turn. A squad of Guardian Jetbikes can focus on evading the enemy for 5 turns, then turbo boost over to an objective on the opposite side of the board on turn 5, and claim or contest it. Even if you want to fight with them, GJB have the speed to actually bring their guns into range earlier, and thanks to Jump Shoot Jump they are less likely to be caught in assault after firing. Not only that, unlike guardians they don't get instantly wrecked by flamers due to the lower model count, higher toughness and better save.

A squad of guardians on the other hand, can only move 6 inches per turn, so either you start them on an objective in your deployment zone, or they spend the entire game walking slowly across the table, where a light breeze will tear them apart. Even if they do start on an objective, the enemy knows were they are and can get to them. If the enemy comes for them, Guardian Defenders are not fast enough to run away.

Eldar have never been about the number of wounds and the number of guns a unit has per cost. If you think like that you are probably a better imperial guard player than an eldar player. Eldar need to focus on maneuverability. The ability to actually bring your guns to bear is better than simply having more guns. To revisit the earlier point, its better to have 3 guns that can fire now, than it is to have 10 guns which are out of range! Likewise, its better to have troops that can hold an objective for 2 turns but can get there on turn five, then it is to have troops who can hold an objective for 4 turns but have to start there on turn 1. You see what I mean?

Here's what's worked for my troops: wraithguard with spirit seer and eldrad standing in front. Majority toughness makes eldrad T6, and he stands there fortuning, guiding and dooming the crap out of everybody. He basically makes the unit a T6 behemoth with rerolled 3+ invul. Expensive but damn. Then behind him on the objectives go squads of rangers, usually 2 small squads. Eldrad hangs back till deepstrikers/outflankers are gone, then marches with everybody but the rangers to hammer the opponents army.

That unit is quite nearly unkillable, and packs mad firepower.

the_scotsman wrote:
Here's what's worked for my troops: wraithguard with spirit seer and eldrad standing in front. Majority toughness makes eldrad T6, and he stands there fortuning, guiding and dooming the crap out of everybody. He basically makes the unit a T6 behemoth with rerolled 3+ invul. Expensive but damn. Then behind him on the objectives go squads of rangers, usually 2 small squads. Eldrad hangs back till deepstrikers/outflankers are gone, then marches with everybody but the rangers to hammer the opponents army.

That unit is quite nearly unkillable, and packs mad firepower.

As an alternative you could run Fuegan and a Fortuneseer with Fuegan in front.

Or Eldrad and the Baron. Now that's a combo; re-rollable 2++/3++ on most fronts, 4+ cover in the open if necessary, T6, firing Wraithcannons, and with Hit and Run should anyone try and connect. Wraithguard's biggest weakness is when they get charged by a dedicated combat unit, but imagine when that unit knows it has to eat overwatch from 10 Wraithcannons first, and then has to wipe them out completely or else they will have a 5/6 chance to just walk out of combat, pepper them with more Wraithcannons in the Eldar turn, and then do it all again should any survivors be stupid enough to charge.

That is a great unit of death and fun. But will cost you about 700 pts. Half of my army (at 1500 ) in one unit that is stuck walking 6" a turn is really quite painfully slow. They may never even make it to an enemy objective. A decent opponent will just stay away from them. Ad there goes 700 pts down the drain.

I agree with Godless.

I have been experimenting with a Fortuneseer, Baron, 10 Warithguard and Conceal Lock at 1750. Works wonders.

The unit is insane. 4+ cover, 2++ rerollable, Hit and Run to get out of combat, and not to mention the shooting it is putting out.

600 points, but it eats firepower from opponents and T2 or T3 they will kill an entire unit every turn. People will have to dedicate heavy weapons in hope of bringing it down.

Something else to keep in mind re: Guardians vs. Jetbikes. While the Guardians can have a similar amount of firepower (ignoring that the Jetbikes can bring it to bear sooner), the Jetbikes' additional speed allows them to easily reach side/rear armor on transports. Out of all of the troops choices, the Jetbikes are probably the most versatile. While I picked Pathfinders, I run both Pathfinders and Jetbikes in my main army. They have their roles, as should everything in an Eldar army.

I figure that as long as you give your opponent something to worry about, most of them will ignore your guardians untill it's too late.

For troops in my standard list, I run 2 pathfinder squads, and 3 15 man guardian squads. I people ignore the guardians, I can generally win the game thanks to them.

I realize that it's not just number of shots, but for a min size squad, 7 points gets you 7 more wounds, and a lot more shots, a bit of speed early in the game just doesn't seem overly worth it to me.

Then again, I usually don't try for super fast games either, I usually end up in turn 4/5 moving onto objectives or doing cleanup.

I do love the baron-star. But it's just 600 points that can be ignored by anything but the slowest of armies. Its 12 range is just.... So short. Almost everything can manage to squeak around it. Butttttt they are a unit that nothing can Realy kill though.

Well if they totally ignore it, no Warlord bonus for them.

They will capture an objective, and if not stalled by CC units or something, they will also achieve Linebreaker. Ignore away then.

You can force your opponent to deal with them. Most armies cant simply ignore a unit like that. It may take 2 or 3 turns, but they will do multiple things outside of killing a unit a turn.

Maybe I just didnt play them well enough. Idk. But I just couldnt seem to get them to really become super effective.

I would love to see a comparison between the baron-star and the harley-star unit. Which is more effective ect. But that isnt for this thread.

One thing to note is that a 3+ save and jink saves often makes jetbikes more survivable than they seem. Jetbikes die like marines, defenders die like imperial guardsmen...

Anyway, another topic that merits discussion is why pathfinders over rangers- rangers are the better pick for the points. Everybody (should) agree that the purpose of the squad is to infiltrate onto an objective and maybe snipe some upgrade models and other light fire support.

Because of the precision shot rules, both rangers and pathfinders have ap1 precision shots which is really what is important. Both units also get the same cover save if rangers go to ground. So really pathfinders pay 5 more points per model for a slightly better cover save when rangers don't go to ground, and some extra ap1 that they cannot allocate (the 5s).

I just can't justify those points- i'll stick with rangers.

I do agree, I usually find rangers adequate. When my rangers die, I have never said "oh damn, I wish they were pathfinders for that extra cover save bonus". When my rangers die its due to cover ignoring things or being assaulted. Both of which dont care weather you are a ranger or pathfinder.

Yeah same here. I've been trying to sell the other Eldar player in my group on Rangers, but he insists on Pathfinders. In my experience, the only benefit I want to use from the upgrade is ignoring cover when I move. Not much incentive when I never move my Rangers if I can help it. I've also seen math that shows Rangers doing move damage on average per point spent. Doesn't factor in too, too much when I list build, but it's good to know.