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Sorry I'm posting this on my phone right now. Anyways I've been eyeing the CSM for a bit now, but with the model design for dark vengeance I get the feeling that the CSM are about to get a lot less sympathetic. I have a bad feeling that their new battle cry no matter their god will be "kill, maim, burn!" I've always wanted to play a more sophisticated revolutionary type CSM, and after seeing the new batman movie that feeling has crystalized. The charicter bane just gave me so many ideas for a chaos lord. I could literally picture him in my renigade chapter and he wouldn't be out of place. I'm just wondering if you guys get the same feeling? Because in my mind that would suck.

Create your own fluff for your own warband. Problem solved.

Yea I'm doing that anyway, but I've gotten practically excommunicated from more than one forum for playing fast and loose with the cannon before. And I really don't want it to happen again.

 yeri wrote:
Yea I'm doing that anyway, but I've gotten practically excommunicated from more than one forum for playing fast and loose with the cannon before. And I really don't want it to happen again.

I really doubt you are going to get banned from Dakka for playing fast and loose with the fluff (only exception if its something so ludicrous as to people thinking you are trolling)

if you use your own warband you can do pretty much whatever you want. If you however use the alpha legion fluff and colors(awesome fluff, horrid colors) then you might get some hate if you dont follow it exactly.

As Exergy said, if your warband is entirely of your own devising you can have them function however you like. This may be a little restricting on how you paint them as you may want to shy away from similar paint schemes to the established Warbands/Legions, just so that your army is not mistaken as one with established fluff.

I think you're going to have a hard time making Chaos look "good." I mean, they serve a force that ultimately wants to destroy humanity and they're organized purely along "might makes right" lines. That's not to say that they can't be deluded, well-intentioned (at least originally), or at least tragic.

They do look mighty evil - I'll grant you that.

All that considered, if you want to make a renegade warband that has - for whatever reason - decided to keep the skulls and spiky bits, chaos mutations, and other weirdness to a minimum, why not just represent them with "lightly" altered standard marine models? There's no rule saying you can't. In fact, that might be fun, if your plan is to play a recently excommunicated warband that still has delusions of heroism.

ElectricPaladin wrote:I think you're going to have a hard time making Chaos look "good." I mean, they serve a force that ultimately wants to destroy humanity and they're organized purely along "might makes right" lines.

Depends on which book you're using as a source.

According to most 40k books, Chaos wants to corrupt or enslave humanity somehow, but not destroy it. Some of the Chaos Gods are good (or at least not too evil) emotions taken too far.

Like, according to the Realms of Chaos books, Slaanesh is the God of Pleasure and Sensation. Nurgle is the God of Defiance against Despair. Khorne is the God of Martial Prowess and Vengeance. Tzeentch is the God of Hope and Ambition.

They're certainly horrible beings, but they aren't 100% motiveless evil.

Yea, I figured it wouldn't be much of a problem. The most contovercial part of my fluff is that a deamon prince sires a kid, then later the kid gets mutated into a space marine (I'm assuming chaos can do that). Most of it is handwaved as "it's chaos". Now is that going too far?

 yeri wrote:
Yea, I figured it wouldn't be much of a problem. The most contovercial part of my fluff is that a deamon prince sires a kid, then later the kid gets mutated into a space marine (I'm assuming chaos can do that). Most of it is handwaved as "it's chaos". Now is that going too far?

It's called the Daemonculaba, so I don't really see a problem with someone being mutated into a space marine. Heck that could be even how the kid was sired.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Daemonculaba#.UD9pDNaPXQg

Its worth having a look at some Alpha Legion fluff. They are defently not the kill, maim, burn end of the chaos spectrum.

 yeri wrote:
Sorry I'm posting this on my phone right now. Anyways I've been eyeing the CSM for a bit now, but with the model design for dark vengeance I get the feeling that the CSM are about to get a lot less sympathetic. I have a bad feeling that their new battle cry no matter their god will be "kill, maim, burn!" I've always wanted to play a more sophisticated revolutionary type CSM, and after seeing the new batman movie that feeling has crystalized. The charicter bane just gave me so many ideas for a chaos lord. I could literally picture him in my renigade chapter and he wouldn't be out of place. I'm just wondering if you guys get the same feeling? Because in my mind that would suck.

well, now Im going to make a Bane for my renegade IG commander

Yea I’m familiar with the demonculaba. What happens in my fluff is that the kid is born human (but with the mark of Tzeentch on his back) to a noble family. Later he sees how the other half lives and resolves to tear down the oppression of the imperium. That’s when he is approached by a chaos cult, and in a ritual he meets his deamon father who presents him with his old armor and tells him to put it on. When he does he kind of grows to fit the armor becoming a space marine by a chaos ritual designed to induce mutation. Cue his father’s old renegade chapter landing on the planet and setting up shop. Just as planned.

I was going to edit the other post, but seeing as someone already responded, there’s one more thing I’m iffy about: a mutant chaos catgirl leading the cult, and leading my squad of cultists when the new codex comes out. Before you go into a rage please note the only hair on her is on her head, she just has orange skin and tiger stripe tattoos. Too much?

EDIT: I'm really pushing it until it breaks here aren't I? If it's too much please tell me, my creativity has no regards for standards and customs, so I need to be reminded how far I can take an idea.

its honestly not even that bad. Go look at the Stardust Empire thread if you want to see very bad (but kudos to the OP of it for helping his friend try to fix it)

Also, do you have a model planned for her?

Not yet, I'm thinking maybe using a DE wych with the ears covered in long hair and cat ears and a tail sculpted with GS. She's supposed to be a professional thief as her day job (catgirl cat burglar I know stereotypical, but I couldn't resist). Anyways I still need to have my stuff shipped to my dorm, and most of my old CSM got ruined by bad spray paint. (never using armory primer again!) So it's going to be awhile before I get anything started.

EDIT: @ Battle Brother Lucifer: yikes that fanfic is really bad, and from that thread it looks like the writer doesn't know that sacred cows make the best hamburgers.

Yeah, not terrible at all and points for being suitably Tzeentchy. Who knows, maybe the DP/cult propped up those very nobles specifically to foment rebellion by working both ends. Very sneaky!

Chaos furry girl makes me a little nauseous, though. The tattoos makes it much more palatable. Chaos freaks probably do lots of tattooing. And the desire to change into something else seems consistent with a Tzeentch follower. Maybe she will get her wish. Odds are it won't be quite what she expects, though....

So is the Chaos Lord going to be a Night Lord?

So is the Chaos Lord going to be a Night Lord?

I see what you did there, but no he's from a DIY chapter called the Brazen Bulls. Basically their MO is to land on a planet, set up a radio station, and broadcast the Imperium's dirty laundry interspersed with actual music (not the religious songs the Imperium like to broadcast) and heretical radio dramas (they're basically Radio Free Chaos). When they've got enough listeners they get them organized to rebel, and take over the planet. this is a case where rock & roll is actually corrupting the youth.

I dunno.

That doesn't sound bad and it doesn't violate canon.

It just seems kinda weird and implausible. It'd be difficult to get an entire planet to rebel with just a radiostation.

I feel you, bro. I know the pain of people sneering at armies with custom backgrounds from their high horses.
But know that my Space Vagabonds got your back.

I'm pretty sure media has sparked more than one revolution, why else are tyrannical regimes so afraid of the free press? they're using a radio station because from what I can tell that's the biggest form of mass media in the imperium. if there were TV stations they'd probably have the Chaos Variety Fun Hour.
also any objectivistests out there time to rip your favorite book a new one: I've never heard anyone criticize Ayn Rand for the implausibility of a revolution starting in her book from one speech given over three hours with enough text that to speak it in the allotted time would require John Gault to speak so quickly as to be unintelligible. now think about starting a revolution over years of broadcasts that also provide entertainment along with politics to keep you tuned in. which one is more implausible?

 yeri wrote:
I'm pretty sure media has sparked more than one revolution, why else are tyrannical regimes so afraid of the free press? they're using a radio station because from what I can tell that's the biggest form of mass media in the imperium. if there were TV stations they'd probably have the Chaos Variety Fun Hour.
also any objectivistests out there time to rip your favorite book a new one: I've never heard anyone criticize Ayn Rand for the implausibility of a revolution starting in her book from one speech given over three hours with enough text that to speak it in the allotted time would require John Gault to speak so quickly as to be unintelligible. now think about starting a revolution over years of broadcasts that also provide entertainment along with politics to keep you tuned in. which one is more implausible?

If the conditions of a culture were at a point where a tipping point was enough to move forward with rebellion then a single speech could be viewed as the moment that 'started the revolution'. It wouldn't be the speech in a vacuum, it would be the reception of the speech in the context of the culture as a whole. In real life speeches and actions that would other wide be ignored can move things forward. Most of history will recount the pivotal battle (the 300 Spartans), turning point in a string of events (Rosa Parks), cultural shift (Woodstock), and so on although each one was proceeded by years of anticipation of cultural anticipation of change.

I like your overall idea, the subliminal radio approach is a bit weak though. Maybe a general infiltration of all media using the 'whispers of chaos' as opposed to faction propaganda? That might be used to hand wave the need for a specific planetary culture, and could be used to pit one part of the world against another to have an exponential rate of change instead of directly affecting each person through the media.

 snooggums wrote:

I like your overall idea, the subliminal radio approach is a bit weak though. Maybe a general infiltration of all media using the 'whispers of chaos' as opposed to faction propaganda? That might be used to hand wave the need for a specific planetary culture, and could be used to pit one part of the world against another to have an exponential rate of change instead of directly affecting each person through the media.

I realize you're right, it is a bit strange for a space marine to host a shock jock show. In all honesty I probably wrote it because I like music, and wanted to include some. I think I'm going to go more Alpha Legion style tactics, at least for the sub-section my army is based on. See there's two sub-sections to the Brazen Bulls. Task Force Subvertus focused on making a target world ready for the main assault force Task Force Purgatus. I'll explain more when I do a full write up.

EDIT: Fixed the quotes.

If you wanted to include music, you could base your army off of Noise Marines. But you've probably already thought of that.

See there's two sub-sections to the Brazen Bulls. Task Force Subvertus focused on making a target world ready for the main assault force Task Force Purgatus. I'll explain more when I do a full write up.

I like this part. One force gets the world ready and the other conquers it.

Maybe the Task Force Subvertus could get the world ready by assassinating leaders, cutting off trade, bombing key buildings and other stuff that would destabilize a world.

 LoneLictor wrote:

Maybe the Task Force Subvertus could get the world ready by assassinating leaders, cutting off trade, bombing key buildings and other stuff that would destabilize a world.

I have a response to that, but Bison says it much better:



Oh yea and I never explained my reasons for the catgirl did I? See I used to play infinity with some of the same guy I play 40K with now, and a lot of them get tunnel rage when they see anything they consider a furry. They will focus on attacking it until it's obliterated. By putting the catgirl in a disposable unit of cultist they become a cheap fire magnet, when they should be attacking my marines. it's psychological warfare

People use the GK codex to make pre heresy TS armies. I think you can get away by using the CSM codex to create a revolutionnary force. Think Space Sharks or pre-small-heresy astral claws.

Nothing out of the ordinary.

For your idea, noise marines would work well (obviously). But I imagine space marines (chaos or flowers ones) are warriors before soldiers. They make war. In you idea, I can imagine Purgatus being (chaos) space marines, but I see Subvertus more as assassins, covert operatives or things like that. Not the kind of people that smile while looking a demolisher canon in the eye.

The SM could be used to infiltrate the specialists though. Something like covert renegade IG veterans supported by CSM ?

well this is more an army for the next codex, there will be cultists galore in the subvertus list when I build it. I currently have purgatis sitting at home, sort of (spray paint disaster made them all fuzzy and gritty).

I actually think this fluff is workable.


Maybe have the Daemon Prince be a kinda spiritual father to the Chaos Lord.

"I saw your very soul's birth in the warp. It was pleasing and I moulded it to my will. Don this ancient armor my son, it has been stained with the lifeblood of countless imperial dogs since the beginning of the great rebellion. Power and Strength shall be yours..."


And Cat people are now canon in the fluff(BRB fluff section)

I know cat people are cannon now, but last I checked they were confined to their homeworld. that and they're not chaosy enough.

That little line would work, and it would be true, except that the Brazen Bulls aren't from the legions, they're a chapter that tuned to chaos after discovering some incontinent information that destroyed their faith in the emperor (Imperial Truth) Realizing the Imperium was built on a lie, they resolved to "liberate" the Imperium from their false idol, turning them to something more willing to be worshiped. as far as forging the kid's soul, that's true and more. the Brazen Bulls are led by a council of five lords each representing a faction of chaos. the demon prince was lord Indiciptus (representing chaos undivided, I've dropped the tyzneetch idea for chaos undivided) the head of the council. since he ascended no one has stepped up to replace him, thus the need for a heir. when he was summoned to a chaos cult he saw his opportunity and with a wave of his hand he performed the opposite of immaculate conception on the cult leader (let me make this clear that was not the catgirl,different cult) as a "gift" from the gods. that woman died giving birth to the eventual chaos lord (equivalent exchange, to create life, life must be taken away).

Ahhh, missed that part about them being prior loyalists. it still works either way.

Well I could see how you would miss that. Seeing as I never posted that they were former loyalists anywhere. Like I said I'm trying to work on a full index astates (or maybe I didn't put that anywhere either.) Anyways with everyone's questions answered I'm going to hit the sack for the night, I have class in the morning.