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2 simple things.

Give the Hydra Interceptor so it can unload rounds into ground units without having to take snap shots.
Heck even the FW Hydra flak turret (the one that is a stationary defense turret) has interceptor so why not the tank?

I miss my hydras unloading a hail of bullets into Dread's and killing them through weight of fire!!

the Vanquisher needs increased power to make up for its current, weaknesses.
Its already hard enough to land a blow so, I say if it does manage to hit it should be increadibly hard hitting.

Modified idea from another thread. Origional person to concive it I cannot remember, but credit goes to them.

I call it "Brute Force"

If the armor facing is AV12 or less.
Glance removes 2 hull points
Pen, on a 4+ annialates the machine outright, wrecking it. The shell just smashs the machine apart through its kinetic energy alone.

If the armor is 13+
Glance does 1 hull point
Pen does 2 as well as whatever effect is given (stunned, weapon removed or whatever).
(maybe, still working on it)

and give it AP 1.

That... Or give them coaxial weapons standard to give them TL chances and give them an upgrade that increases BS (Not pask... something cheaper then pask)

Vanquishers need more power for what they are worth.

Vanquisher just needs to hit more often.
Making it count as twin-linked vs enemy tanks would be ideal. Call it "In my sights" or something.

Or, as a dedicated vehicle hunter, I wouldn't mind seeing the vanquisher with a 4th hull point and/or cermite armor. Built more study to trade rounds with enemy armor.

-Matt

Yup, that's not nearly enough to make a vanquisher worth taking.

To make a vanquisher worth taking, you'd have to make it Ap1, and make it so that any hits automatically cause a penetrating hit.

Of course, that's still only 1 in 4 shots that it actually kills something, and is actually worse than that if the opponent has cover, so I'd still probably not take it.

Seriously, the vanquisher is terribad, you'd have to do a lot to fix it, rather than just a tiny damage upgrade.

AP1, Heavy 2?

Also agree re: Hydra.

Maybe an option for Interceptor at like, 10pts per model?

 Ailaros wrote:
Yup, that's not nearly enough to make a vanquisher worth taking.
To make a vanquisher worth taking, you'd have to make it Ap1, and make it so that any hits automatically cause a penetrating hit.
Of course, that's still only 1 in 4 shots that it actually kills something, and is actually worse than that if the opponent has cover, so I'd still probably not take it.
Seriously, the vanquisher is terribad, you'd have to do a lot to fix it, rather than just a tiny damage upgrade.

Ran some numbers, and you're correct, it isn't quite enough.

AP1, with re-rolls to hit, should actually do it.

A BS4 all lascannon pred does .37 glances and .37 pens on average, rolling the pen at AP2. 165 points
My Vanquisher would do .19 glances and .08 pens at AP2 AND .44 pens at AP1, 170 points.

It's got a significant armor and range advantage over a pred, and less loss of firepower on the move, 5 points more.

Well im sure no one wants it to be a OP God Gun.
BUt at the same time the curent one shot long range melta isn't cutting it.

Your welcome to tinker with it.

As for the Hydra interceptor, a seperate points addon for it just isnt right. It needs to be Interceptor and Skyfire outright..

You don't think it would be stupidly good if it had both, for the same points as it is now? I doubt you'd see anything else in the HS slots.

Give the Hydra Skyfire Flakk Missiles.

Give the Vanquisher a free "Knight Commander" upgrade.

Re: Hydra. How much are you willing to pay for this?

50 points per Hydra? That would almost be fair, but it would still be under-priced.

Hydra I have no opinion on.

But for feth's sake leave the Vanq alone! Before people were saying to either make it AP 1 (for +1 on the table) or better shot.

So GW made 6th ed where it is still AP 2 but that now does what AP 1 used to. And you still complain. Get over it. Its fine the way it is for casual lists! And even semi-competitve.

If you want competitive Guard use the Standard, but now highly survivable, Meltavet Flyers!

 Deadshot wrote:

So GW made 6th ed where it is still AP 2 but that now does what AP 1 used to. And you still complain. Get over it. Its fine the way it is for casual lists! And even semi-competitve.

But with the change of the vehicle damage table, the Vanquisher only gained a "false AP1". It still destroys stuff on an 5+, so nothing changed since 5th ed. Where people wanted it to have a +1 modifier, mind you.

And no, it isn't fine as it is. When your after-battle experience is "This thing did nothing, I would be better with a Demolisher, but hey, at least it looks cool and fun and all." then you feel self-justification and not statisfaction. So yeah, at the end of the day you will still have a 155 points tank that could do only ~0.20 Exploded result on a 35 points Rhino...

I think the best resolution for the Vanquisher would be the re-introduction of the alternate normal shell fire mode and a cost increase to 180-185 points.