Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

like i said it makes me sad. small blast weapons become too inaccurate to use. They now only have a 1/3 chance to hit and if they scatter they scatter too far too hit something.

Apologies if these have been covered, but a skimming of the thread didn't get them...

How are sweeping advances handled?

What are the to-hit rules for grenades (krak/meltabombs)?

With assaults hitting rear armor, krak grenades might have just gotten useful.

About the krak grenades. I Believe they are very useful now. For instance:

Ig: Any model with krak grenades assualts any vehicle (except a LR or a mono) and has a good chance to kill it.
All S3 models with krak grenades or equivalents now hit rear armor of 10 with a S6 hit, like a free fist!

Yes vehicles should be very scared of troops

yakface wrote:
Star engines are used in the shooting phase, aren't they?

And ramming vehicles take exactly the same hit back on them depending on the AV of the vehicle they're hitting, so I'm not sure how you're getting that they'll only take S8 hits.

It's:

*Each armor point above 10: +1
*Each full 3" of movement done by the rammer when they hit the other vehicle: +1
*If the vehicle is a tank: +1


So if a Wave Serpent is set up perfectly to move the full 24" before striking their target (highly unlikely), the Wave Serpent would do a S11 hit (S8 for moving 24", +2 for AV12 & +1 for being a tank).

If they hit something like an AV10 Trukk, they'll only get a S8 hit back (for the speed), but if they strike a Land Raider they'll get a S13 hit back (S8 for the speed, +4 for AV14 & +1 for being a tank).

Yak, correct me if I'm wrong (don't have access to a 5th ed rulebook now), but isn't the wording of ramming +1 for each full 3" of movement that turn? So technically speaking, isn't it possible, RAW, to move 24" and then move another 12" and ram, for a full +12 S for speed?

ubermosher wrote:

Yak, correct me if I'm wrong (don't have access to a 5th ed rulebook now), but isn't the wording of ramming +1 for each full 3" of movement that turn? So technically speaking, isn't it possible, RAW, to move 24" and then move another 12" and ram, for a full +12 S for speed?

I would imagine that it depends on when you are allowed to make a ramming move. If the ram has to be resolved in the movement phase it would imply that you can't add any movement available in the shooting phase.

I would have said that in conjunction with a ramming move the use of Star engines would be better used to redeploy the vehicle into a better location/orientation. One of the potential problems with ramming is that it might leave you rather open to reactive fire.

Red_Lives wrote:like i said it makes me sad. small blast weapons become too inaccurate to use. They now only have a 1/3 chance to hit and if they scatter they scatter too far too hit something.

I just don't buy this. The no partials thing more than makes up for the scatter.

Indeed. And I just noticed while checking on that, that all Jump Infantry can Deep Strike now too!

Yup. Finally Seraphim can DS!

Capt K

ubermosher wrote:

yakface wrote:
Star engines are used in the shooting phase, aren't they?

And ramming vehicles take exactly the same hit back on them depending on the AV of the vehicle they're hitting, so I'm not sure how you're getting that they'll only take S8 hits.

It's:

*Each armor point above 10: +1
*Each full 3" of movement done by the rammer when they hit the other vehicle: +1
*If the vehicle is a tank: +1


So if a Wave Serpent is set up perfectly to move the full 24" before striking their target (highly unlikely), the Wave Serpent would do a S11 hit (S8 for moving 24", +2 for AV12 & +1 for being a tank).

If they hit something like an AV10 Trukk, they'll only get a S8 hit back (for the speed), but if they strike a Land Raider they'll get a S13 hit back (S8 for the speed, +4 for AV14 & +1 for being a tank).

Yak, correct me if I'm wrong (don't have access to a 5th ed rulebook now), but isn't the wording of ramming +1 for each full 3" of movement that turn? So technically speaking, isn't it possible, RAW, to move 24" and then move another 12" and ram, for a full +12 S for speed?

No, you can't do that I'm afraid. Ramming must be done in the Movement phase. Thus, the 12" Star Engine movement cannot even come into play.

biztheclown wrote:

Red_Lives wrote:like i said it makes me sad. small blast weapons become too inaccurate to use. They now only have a 1/3 chance to hit and if they scatter they scatter too far too hit something.

I just don't buy this. The no partials thing more than makes up for the scatter.

I agree with Biz on this one. This is of course affected by what army you are playing. If you are playing a horde army, than this will be more effective than against Deathwing for instance. Missile Launchers are aces in my book.

Red_Lives wrote:Deep strike is worse in 5th ed. Deeps trike into a forest= dangerous terrain tests

Mishap table=suck age here is basically what it means.
1&2 you die
3&4 i kill you
5&6 try again later.

Are the rules from the 5th Ed book different from the PDF when it comes to the mishap table? (please say yes)
The PDF has:
1 - unit dies
2,3 - unit does not appear. treat as below 1/2
4,5,6 - opponant choses where you land, no scatter (and you get shot be pieces next turn, no doubt).

Wait, I thought I heard somewhere that scatter was minus the BS of the firer (IG would be in most cases -3")

BrookM wrote:Wait, I thought I heard somewhere that scatter was minus the BS of the firer (IG would be in most cases -3")

Just give the plasmagun to someone with a 5

Accipiter wrote:

Red_Lives wrote:Deep strike is worse in 5th ed. Deeps trike into a forest= dangerous terrain tests

Mishap table=suck age here is basically what it means.
1&2 you die
3&4 i kill you
5&6 try again later.

Are the rules from the 5th Ed book different from the PDF when it comes to the mishap table? (please say yes)
The PDF has:
1 - unit dies
2,3 - unit does not appear. treat as below 1/2
4,5,6 - opponant choses where you land, no scatter (and you get shot be pieces next turn, no doubt).

1+2 = die
3+4 = misplaced , opponent places unit anywhere on the table
5+6 = delayed, unit is in reserve

actual chart WD july 08

yakface wrote:

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:Did anyone notice the little section called Retinue in the Independent Character section of the rules? In short, Independent Characters that have Retinues (Inquisitorial Retinues, Command Squads, etc) count as upgrade characters and cannot be picked out in shooting or assault. Should the Retinue be killed, the Independent Character will revert to IC Status. Sounds like Power Fists are in for Commanders. Hello, Thunder Hammer Chaplains.

I did not notice that, you are right. However, the SM codex is the first one out of the gate so that won't be a possibility for long. Dark Eldar Archons, Inquisitor Lords, IG Officers and Tau Commanders are all going to be much better protected now. Although with the super-destructiveness of close combat in v5 I don't know how helpful that will really be.

As a Templar player, this is a huge boon, because barring a nerf by the FAQ, BT will be the only army that can field Terminator Command Squads or Power Armored Command Squads (of more than 5 accompanying models). This makes wargear like Adamantine Mantle absolutely worthless if the Character has a Retinue.

All I can say is that I'm looking forward to not worrying about my commander exploding every time I run up against a squad with a hidden fist.

CK

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:

yakface wrote:

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:Did anyone notice the little section called Retinue in the Independent Character section of the rules? In short, Independent Characters that have Retinues (Inquisitorial Retinues, Command Squads, etc) count as upgrade characters and cannot be picked out in shooting or assault. Should the Retinue be killed, the Independent Character will revert to IC Status. Sounds like Power Fists are in for Commanders. Hello, Thunder Hammer Chaplains.

I did not notice that, you are right. However, the SM codex is the first one out of the gate so that won't be a possibility for long. Dark Eldar Archons, Inquisitor Lords, IG Officers and Tau Commanders are all going to be much better protected now. Although with the super-destructiveness of close combat in v5 I don't know how helpful that will really be.

As a Templar player, this is a huge boon, because barring a nerf by the FAQ, BT will be the only army that can field Terminator Command Squads or Power Armored Command Squads (of more than 5 accompanying models). This makes wargear like Adamantine Mantle absolutely worthless if the Character has a Retinue.

All I can say is that I'm looking forward to not worrying about my commander exploding every time I run up against a squad with a hidden fist.

CK

I wonder how righteous zeal will work with the "Go-to-Ground" rule with them?
I'm hoping the FAQ answers this one.....

ThirdUltra wrote:I wonder how righteous zeal will work with the "Go-to-Ground" rule with them?
I'm hoping the FAQ answers this one.....

They're marines so I'm expecting a +1 save as well as the additional "run".

Hm, it would be rather "fluffy" if BT's couldn't use go-to-ground....

Hi

Sorry if this was mentioned before but:
What about psykers in transport verhicles.
Can psychic powers be used when onboard a vehicle ?
Even if it has no firepoints ?

thx cu

One thing I noticed about Sweeping Advances:

Base contact is no longer required to attempt to over run an enemy in a sweeping advance. If you win the combat and the enemy fails his Ld check, you roll off.

Flarack wrote:Hi

Sorry if this was mentioned before but:
What about psykers in transport verhicles.
Can psychic powers be used when onboard a vehicle ?
Even if it has no firepoints ?

thx cu

From what I have read, psychic powers still follow normal LOS restrictions for shooting based powers. So, you would still need fire-points to use them. However, there is nothing in the rules that I can tell, about other powers when used in a vehicle, so it appears a psycher can use them in one, but it would depend on what the power actually is.....

Flarack wrote:Hi

Sorry if this was mentioned before but:
What about psykers in transport verhicles.
Can psychic powers be used when onboard a vehicle ?
Even if it has no firepoints ?

thx cu

Psychic powers that require LOS would require a fire point.

Powers that don't need LOS can be used and are measured from the hull of the vehicle.

like i said it makes me sad. small blast weapons become too inaccurate to use. They now only have a 1/3 chance to hit and if they scatter they scatter too far too hit something.

I'm not sure I see this...

Currently, a blast template is placed in such a way that you basically can only hit one model if the other player spreads out. That's pretty lame.

Now, as I understand it, you can place the template wherever you want, roll scatter, then 2D6-BS. No partials.

So, 1 in 3 is a hit.

The rest scatter. Let's assume you've centered the template on a model. Normal base is 1". Blast tempate is 3". So, in order to still be over the model, it'd have to scatter less than 2", so basically 1".

At BS4, that means any roll of 2D6 that's 5 or less would stll be a hit on at least one model. The odds of rolling 5 or less on 2D6 is 5/18.

So, old rules, you had a 66% chance to hit one model. In new rules you have 61% chance to hit one model, and a significantly better chance to hit multiple models, and better than 66% chance to hit larger based models.

So, no need to be sad. Lucky you!

thx

question: (related to multiple combats)
Must I attack the enemy unit I'm already in close combat with if I'm charged
by another enemy unit on my opponent's turn ?

example:
If some orkz are in close combat with a chaos dreadnought and on the next chaos turn a squad of chaos marines
charges the orkz too. They (the orkz) must attack the dreadnought again, even if they cannot harm him?
Because they were only engaged with the dreadnought at the beginning of the chaos players combat?

Flarack wrote:
example:
If some orkz are in close combat with a chaos dreadnought and on the next chaos turn a squad of chaos marines
charges the orkz too. They (the orkz) must attack the dreadnought again, even if they cannot harm him?
Because they were only engaged with the dreadnought at the beginning of the chaos players combat?

Models ENGAGED (in base contact with the enemy or within 2" of a friendly model in base contact with the enemy) with multiple units can choose to attack whichever unit they want. In the new rules models can even split their attacks (if they have more than one) between enemy units they are engaged with.

So in your example, any Orks engaged with the Chaos Marine squad could attack the marines, while any Orks only engaged with the Dreadnought would have to fight him.

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:
As a Templar player, this is a huge boon, because barring a nerf by the FAQ, BT will be the only army that can field Terminator Command Squads or Power Armored Command Squads (of more than 5 accompanying models). This makes wargear like Adamantine Mantle absolutely worthless if the Character has a Retinue.

Another big boon for Templars is the new version of Preferred Enemy...re-roll missed to-hits in the assault phase. I think this makes up for losing an attack on the powerfist Initiate.

Red_Lives wrote:like i said it makes me sad. small blast weapons become too inaccurate to use. They now only have a 1/3 chance to hit and if they scatter they scatter too far too hit something.

If you only fire one, this is possibly true...recently I've been field squads with 4+ templates, and the amount of hits is incredible. You resolve the number of total hits before you roll for wounds.

As an extreme example, my Tyranid Warrior Squad with 8 Deathspitters and a Venom Cannon was shooting at a large mob of 30 orks - 23 hits! Everytime I rolled a Hit on the scatter dice it was 5 hits. Devastators with Plasma Cannons should be pretty commonplace soon.

So, although blast templates have made you sad, they are not too inaccurate to use, and I can assure that my friend the orc player was more sad than you about the new rules.

ThirdUltra wrote:
I wonder how righteous zeal will work with the "Go-to-Ground" rule with them?
I'm hoping the FAQ answers this one.....

IIRC, Go to Ground states that a squad gives up it moving, shooting, and assault phases in its next turn, but reacts normally to the battel going on around it (they take morale checks and can fall back, defend themselves if assaulted etc.)

Since the RZ rules make them move I guess you just pass your Ld and roll the d6 for the Consolidation move (not sure if this was mentioned yet but since this is treated as a consolidation move in 5e RZ can't be used to launch an assault in your opponent's turn...you stop 1" away from the squad your templars were moving to).

Fabricator-General wrote:

ThirdUltra wrote:
I wonder how righteous zeal will work with the "Go-to-Ground" rule with them?
I'm hoping the FAQ answers this one.....

IIRC, Go to Ground states that a squad gives up it moving, shooting, and assault phases in its next turn, but reacts normally to the battel going on around it (they take morale checks and can fall back, defend themselves if assaulted etc.)

Since the RZ rules make them move I guess you just pass your Ld and roll the d6 for the Consolidation move (not sure if this was mentioned yet but since this is treated as a consolidation move in 5e RZ can't be used to launch an assault in your opponent's turn...you stop 1" away from the squad your templars were moving to).

This is true; however, since the unit fell-forward instead of backwards, and the rule mentions that the unit will act as normal if doing this, it seems that righteous zeal can be used in conjunction with the Go To Ground rule to setup an assault on the BT player's turn....however, now that I think about it, the rule specifically mentions that units that fall back due to failed morale tests would act as normal, which would mean that the fall-forward for RZ is not a failed morale test...yes?

So, what then....the unit still moves its d6" but still cannot do anything in the BT player's turn if they used Go To Ground.....?

Hopefully an FAQ can address it....

When shooting a weapon/psychic power, are we still restricted to shooting the same unit as we will be charging?
ie: can my tyrant shoot one target (w/ ranged weapons or psychic power) and assault another?

The PDF writes we can run after deepstriking - does this still hold true?



P.S.
I have read all 17 pages, but I have done so over 3 days, so I have probably forgotten a few things. Forgive me

Accipiter wrote:When shooting a weapon/psychic power, are we still restricted to shooting the same unit as we will be charging?
ie: can my tyrant shoot one target (w/ ranged weapons or psychic power) and assault another?

The PDF writes we can run after deepstriking - does this still hold true?

For psychic powers that are shooting attacks, yes you must charge the same unit you shot at.

And yes you can run after deep striking.