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#12- not only guard, but anyone who has an existing army that's light on troops can go for this (I'm talking Crisis JSJ Tau, your flying circus necrons, and Nidzilla).

#15- Great! God, I hope you aren't Tau/Guard. This seems broken as hell. Now certain assault units can just decide not to have to face a turn of shooting before hitting someone's lines? Bunk.

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:

#15- Great! God, I hope you aren't Tau/Guard. This seems broken as hell. Now certain assault units can just decide not to have to face a turn of shooting before hitting someone's lines? Bunk.

My first reaction is the same as yours, especially considering that a lot of the fleet DS units also have a 12" charge range like Raveners and Seekers. The fact that they can Deep Strike, run and then charge 12" means they'll be able to hit exactly where they want without the enemy being able to do anything about it.


However, I think one important thing to remember is that CC units are going to have a harder time staying locked in combat on the opponents turn as combat tends to be resolved in one round and potentially the inability to consolidate into new enemy units (just basing that off of rumors for now).

That means even though these units will be able to slam into your line without immediate reprisal they should generally be left standing in the middle of your army afterwards waiting to be shot. Of course reading all the rules together will be the only real way to put all these puzzle pieces together for me.

Sarigar wrote:Centurian99: Thanks for the update.

#1. Big thanks for that clarification. 4+ saves are perfectly reasonable.

#6. Clarification: If I understand your post correctly, vehicle squadrons ignore 'Crew Stunned', but end up with a +1 on the damage chart?

#15. Ouch. Ummm, yeah, this definitely changes things.

On #6 - no, I was just saying that there's a benefit to vehicle squadrons (along with the automatic death on an immobilized result).

After reading through the book, I believe that this will be a more dynamic and cleaner game. I know some people are worried about the time constraints. However, I think it will be a wash in the end. Some things will go faster and some things will go slower.

Overall - I saw a lot of details that provided very specific and clear answers to a lot of the issues that players encountered in games under the V4 rules. At this point, GW gets a thumbs up from me.

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:#12- not only guard, but anyone who has an existing army that's light on troops can go for this (I'm talking Crisis JSJ Tau, your flying circus necrons, and Nidzilla).

#15- Great! God, I hope you aren't Tau/Guard. This seems broken as hell. Now certain assault units can just decide not to have to face a turn of shooting before hitting someone's lines? Bunk.

On #12 - Yeah, but its much more critical for guard because as I read the KP mission, each unit is worth a KP. Guard unit counts are so lopsided that there needs to be some sort of balancing factor.

I need to learn how to read. Took another gander...I was wrong on number #15. I missed the word "unless", so even units with fleet can't assault after DSing. There is a caveat that "unless unit has a special rule that allows it to do so."

:(

is it each unit by squad or each unit by FOC slot? If it's the latter, then it's not bad.

One more thing with #15: Swooping Hawks got better. Drop, fleet, assault vehicle or (extremely) squishy unit like CHQ for Guard. If they survive the opposing players next turn (a big if) they can either jump again or charge an average of 21.5" into another vehicle squishy unit. Guard should love them. Deep Strike Defense just became a major issue

Centurian99 wrote:I need to learn how to read. Took another gander...I was wrong on number #15. I missed the word "unless", so even units with fleet can't assault after DSing. There is a caveat that "unless unit has a special rule that allows it to do so."

:(

Okay, good.

sorry to double post, but isn't there a (now) seldom used vehicle upgrade for Dark Eldar that allows raiders to Deep Strike?

stupid edit won't work.. anyway- that's good. ignore previous ranting.

Here are some of the things I noticed on a quick read-through:

Farseers casting in Falcons... I don't think it's legal. The prerelease .pdf had a line, "If any of the models in the transport have abilities that function within a certain range, this range is measured from the vehicle’s hull." I did not see it in the printed book. Furthermore, the only reference to psychic powers in vehicles involves a Fire Point.

Buildings now have an AV (Bunkers being AV 14, for example). Can be destroyed in the same way as vehicles. Imagining Vindicators as Bunker Busters...

I only glanced at ramming, but noticed it said +1 S for each 3" moved that turn... Cheesy image of Vypers with Star Engines dancing in my head. Non-skimmers attempting to ram a skimmer, give target skimmer a 3+ save to avoid.

No emergency disembarking for a penetrating hit against. However there is a provision, called "emergency disembarkation", that if a model cannot exit from it's transport within 2" of an access point without coming within 1" of an enemy model, or entering impassable terrain, it may be placed anywhere within 2" of the vehicle hull, but the squad may do nothing for the rest of the turn. It was not explicitly stated, but I believe it implied that it only occurred during your movement phase, i.e. a voluntary disembark, because it later states that models that cannot disembark when the transport is wrecked are removed.

I did notice in a battle report in the hobby section a note about how effective Combat Squadding vanilla Space Marines can be... so there's a confirmation of that rumor for the upcoming C: SM. Not that one is needed.

Centurian99 wrote:#10 - Troops with counter-attack get the counterattack move, but on a leadership test they count as charging. (Are there any armies with units that still use the counter-attack rule?)

Space Wolves & Ultramarines (Tyrannic War Vets) spring to mind...

Does the enemy get cover saves if you shoot thru your own units, or only thru theirs?

Aduro wrote:Does the enemy get cover saves if you shoot thru your own units, or only thru theirs?

Yours and theirs

What did the "scouts" USR end up looking like? Can I keep on playing with my ravenwing or am I going to be converting up some chaos bikers?

Etherdude wrote:What did the "scouts" USR end up looking like? Can I keep on playing with my ravenwing or am I going to be converting up some chaos bikers?

Pretty much like the pre-production pdf that appeared last summer, IIRC. Hoping to get a better look tomorrow.

In the Baal thread, there's mention of the Assault cannon going down to Heavy 3 and losing rending, is this accurate?

AshenFang wrote:In the Baal thread, there's mention of the Assault cannon going down to Heavy 3 and losing rending, is this accurate?

Not that I could see...maybe it'll happen in the SM Codex.

Okay, now perhaps I'm being dense and I can't see what's going on, but with Vehicle Squadrons, if you get an Immobilized result, it is the same as a Vehicle Destroyed result? If this is the case, what the hell are Grot Riggers for on a unit of Killa Kanz?

What is the benefit to having vehicle squadrons now? I am a little lost.

I planned on running 6 killa kanz in my dread bash list, but with these rules...

Can someone spell things out a bit more for this dense Warboss?

GrimTeef wrote:Okay, now perhaps I'm being dense and I can't see what's going on, but with Vehicle Squadrons, if you get an Immobilized result, it is the same as a Vehicle Destroyed result? If this is the case, what the hell are Grot Riggers for on a unit of Killa Kanz?

What is the benefit to having vehicle squadrons now? I am a little lost.

I planned on running 6 killa kanz in my dread bash list, but with these rules...

Can someone spell things out a bit more for this dense Warboss?

The way it works is like this:
In a vehicle squadron, as long as there is more than one vehicle remaining:
1) All crew stunned becomes crew shaken. So the squadron will always be able to move.
2) All immobilized results become destroyed. So the squadron will always be able to move.

These benefits/penalties are lost as soon as the squadron is reduced to a single model. So in the case you're talking about, its never worthwhile to have Grot Riggers on more than one vehicle in a squadron. (well, potentially, I guess it could be, due to the way casualties are removed. Essentially, you'd be spending 15 points to guarantee that if the squadron is reduced to a single model, that you could re-mobilize that model. Remember, any model can now contest an objective...which can keep your opponent from claiming it, even if you're not securing it for yourself.

Thanks Centurian. It sounds like it is twice as easy to get destroyed results on a Vehicle Squadron ... Lame.

I would rather they leave me the option of deciding if I want to keep my Vehicle Squadron moving or count the Immobilized vehicle as destroyed in order to move along. Seems to be too much of a penalty to me.

Anyone know the exact wording on this whole LOS fiasco that's about to start?

Dire Wombat wrote:Yakface: The one you're missing is 5,5, which brings it up to 4/36 or 1/9. You had me scared for a second there.

His Master's Voice: I'm not sure I follow... +1 for pen hit? Do you mean the +1 for AP1 in 5th ed? If so, yeah, I included that.

Yeah, I meant +1 for AP1. Nevertheless I suck at match as my calculations gave me a different number.

[1/6*1/12+1/2*10/36]*1/2=0,076

Edit: Right, I suck even harder than I though. Or I have 9 fingers...

[1/6*1/9+1/2*16/36]*1/2=0.118

As a Tau player I have been worrying about the 5th edition rumours. However, there are various things that help Tau.

Vehicles
Tau can get wargear that lets their skimmers count as fast moving and also gives them a cover save.

The Railgun has once again become the best tank weapon in the game.

The revised LoS/cover rules make Smart Missiles very effective.

Infantry
Yes, Fire Warriors suffer from the increased emphasis on assault. OTOH, no consolidation is good news, and double-tapping pulse rifles can now shoot to 30 inches of a deep target unit. And FWs get more mobility the same as any other troops.

Suits
Not much change here. The rule that eliminating the enemy force lets you win automatically, certainly allows the possibility that Tau could continue as before, using a suit heavy force without a lot of troops and count on firepower to wipe out the enemy.

I still would like to know what happens in the case of a tie on objectives.

D6.

I think that Markerlights are vital to Tau now, especially vs. vehicles. Skimmers moving fast and smoke launchers can be negated now, which will really help stop vehicle-based assaults.

Markerlights have always been very useful (under the Empire codex) just expensive and difficult to use.

There was a rumour improving the ability of suits to move and shoot Heavy weapons. Has this come true?

@cent99- Doesn't immobilized only count as destroyed if the other vehicles in the squad move out of coherence? I thought if they stayed still they were fine, at least that's what I've heard.

@anyone who knows- Do you get +1 attack on the charge if you have slow and purposeful now?

Greebynog wrote:@cent99- Doesn't immobilized only count as destroyed if the other vehicles in the squad move out of coherence? I thought if they stayed still they were fine, at least that's what I've heard.

No, they are considered destroyed immediately. There's a line about how they're under orders to keep moving and not slow the squadron down, so immobilized vehicles are immediately abandoned and destroyed lest they fall into enemy hands.

The offshoot is the squadron essentially receives extra armor for free using the same line of reasoning (keep moving).