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KamikazeCanuck wrote:People have been killed now. Seriously, time for some martial law.
What happened to you England? You used to be hardcore. If this was some trouble making Irishmen you would have sent in tanks by now.

We were given exactly zero choice between 3 frankly useless Party leaders....IMO at least.

Im waiting for the Queen to bitchslap 'just call me Dave' and take control herself.....pleasepleaseplease

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People have been killed now. Seriously, time for some martial law.
What happened to you England? You used to be hardcore. If this was some trouble making Irishmen you would have sent in tanks by now.

I don't think the British government has EVER put tanks on the streets of Northern Ireland. I do agree that the military should have been deployed by now, if only to relieve some of the pressure from the police.

In other news: Holy gak. Manchester looked a right mess this morning. Also, just got back from Ikea, where me and the missus just got turfed out because of 'approaching trouble' (according to staff). The missus wanted to stop and look at lamps as we were leaving. Because she's a brain surgeon.

The army put tanks onto Belfast streets during Operation Motorman in 1972. However you need to read the word 'tank' as meaning mobile roadblock, decoy and impervious observation post not as overkill fire support or house crusher.
IDF they are not.

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/historicsteve/BAOR/OpMotormanJul722.jpg?t=1284467338

Albatross wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People have been killed now. Seriously, time for some martial law.
What happened to you England? You used to be hardcore. If this was some trouble making Irishmen you would have sent in tanks by now.

I don't think the British government has EVER put tanks on the streets of Northern Ireland.

Pretty sure you're wrong on that.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Albatross wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People have been killed now. Seriously, time for some martial law.
What happened to you England? You used to be hardcore. If this was some trouble making Irishmen you would have sent in tanks by now.

I don't think the British government has EVER put tanks on the streets of Northern Ireland.

Pretty sure you're wrong on that.

I didn't know about that ONE occasion, because it was only ONE occasion, by the looks of it. And they were converted tanks used as demolition vehicles.

Not that you knew any of this of course, you were just peddling the misguided stereotype of evil moustache-twirling pantomime villain Brits ruthlessly crushing the valiant Micks. Which is total crap.

Albatross wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Albatross wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People have been killed now. Seriously, time for some martial law.
What happened to you England? You used to be hardcore. If this was some trouble making Irishmen you would have sent in tanks by now.

I don't think the British government has EVER put tanks on the streets of Northern Ireland.

Pretty sure you're wrong on that.

I didn't know about that ONE occasion, because it was only ONE occasion, by the looks of it. And they were converted tanks used as demolition vehicles.

Not that you knew any of this of course, you were just peddling the misguided stereotype of evil moustache-twirling pantomime villain Brits ruthlessly crushing the valiant Micks. Which is total crap.

Actually you are the one making the assumption now. I even know the regiment. The Royal Scottish Dragoons. I was on vacation over there recently and that regiment has it's own museum in Edinburgh Castle covering everything from punching Napolean in the face to patrolling Northern Ireland. And they were there more than once.

If I owned the company that made those pepper spray paint ball rounds, I'd be sending crates to England right now. Just think of the exposure you could get. Yes there is a very small chance that they could be lethal, but it's pretty slim. I really don't understand why they haven"t used tear gas yet!

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Albatross wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Albatross wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People have been killed now. Seriously, time for some martial law.
What happened to you England? You used to be hardcore. If this was some trouble making Irishmen you would have sent in tanks by now.

I don't think the British government has EVER put tanks on the streets of Northern Ireland.

Pretty sure you're wrong on that.

I didn't know about that ONE occasion, because it was only ONE occasion, by the looks of it. And they were converted tanks used as demolition vehicles.

Not that you knew any of this of course, you were just peddling the misguided stereotype of evil moustache-twirling pantomime villain Brits ruthlessly crushing the valiant Micks. Which is total crap.

Actually you are the one making the assumption now. I even know the regiment. The Royal Scottish Dragoons. I was on vacation over there recently and that regiment has it's own museum in Edinburgh Castle covering everything from punching Napolean in the face to patrolling Northern Ireland. And they were there more than once.

Technically Alby is correct because the Dragoons are mechanised infantry, and they dont use tanks.

A warrior AFV is NOT a tank.

A Warrior weighs what, 25 tonnes? A challenger 2 is a tank, and they weigh about 65 tonnes.

Basically tanks are for killing tanks, AFVs are not classed as tanks. So In northern ireland we deployed APCs and AFVs, but not tanks, because it would be largely pointless.

mattyrm wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Albatross wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Albatross wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People have been killed now. Seriously, time for some martial law.
What happened to you England? You used to be hardcore. If this was some trouble making Irishmen you would have sent in tanks by now.

I don't think the British government has EVER put tanks on the streets of Northern Ireland.

Pretty sure you're wrong on that.

I didn't know about that ONE occasion, because it was only ONE occasion, by the looks of it. And they were converted tanks used as demolition vehicles.

Not that you knew any of this of course, you were just peddling the misguided stereotype of evil moustache-twirling pantomime villain Brits ruthlessly crushing the valiant Micks. Which is total crap.

Actually you are the one making the assumption now. I even know the regiment. The Royal Scottish Dragoons. I was on vacation over there recently and that regiment has it's own museum in Edinburgh Castle covering everything from punching Napolean in the face to patrolling Northern Ireland. And they were there more than once.

Technically Alby is correct because the Dragoons are mechanised infantry, and they dont use tanks.

A warrior AFV is NOT a tank.

A Warrior weighs what, 25 tonnes? A challenger 2 is a tank, and they weigh about 65 tonnes.

Basically tanks are for killing tanks, AFVs are not classed as tanks. So In northern ireland we deployed APCs and AFVs, but not tanks, because it would be largely pointless.

They are armoured cavalry.

Alright, armoured cavalry, but the point is they don't drive MBTs an MBT is a Challenger or an Abrams or something.

You can visually see the difference though, things like Scimitars and Warriors and APCs and such are far lighter and smaller than MBTs

mattyrm wrote: Alright, armoured cavalry, but the point is they don't drive MBTs an MBT is a Challenger or an Abrams.

No, the Challenger is their main fighting vehicle. Trust me, there was several pictures of Challenger Tanks rolling down the street in Belfast in the regimental museum. Anyways, we're getting off-topic so let's steer this back to The Troubles II: Home Island edition.

Actually, they couldn't have been Challengers they are too new. Must have been Centurions. Anyways, like I said off-topic.

I'm still really surprised it hasn't all kicked off in Bradford yet. The army should deffinately have been deployed to help support the police, this government needs to stop being so damn soft on criminals. To me if you break the law of the country then you forfeit any right to be defended by that countries laws and law enforcement agencies. So you choose to loot a shop, a police officer or damn it even owner of said shop chooses to smash your skull in, well tough you have no recourse. This country has gone to hell in a hand basket thanks to it being continually lead by a bunch of incompetant cretins who couldn't organise a booze up in a brewery. I hope everyone is safe and that it all ends soon.

If I am reading correctly its about 9.00PM there now. Whats the situation like? News is sayign the London stuff is more under control now.

You will not see the Army in on this one I'm afraid.

The deployment of the Army would mean a public flogging (by media) for the Govt. I would also imagine that it might lead to the sooner than expected return to government of the soft as gak pansies that tied the hand of the police so much over the last 12 year period.

@ KamikazeCanuck - despite what you say you saw - I am almost certain there have never been Challengers deployed on the streets of Belfast.

mattyrm wrote: Send the Marines in, we covered the no good fething firemen, lets cover the no good fething police.

Might have to kill a few, but I guarantee my commando could have London quiet inside 6 hours, we can insert via the Thames and chop the head off the snake!

Am I the only one who hears Jason Statham's voice when I read Matty's posts?

Nah, Matty talks like a card carrying member of the whippet gang, not Propa like Jace.

There is one major issue from these riots that needs to be sorted once and for all and it is this: An Englishman's home is his castle.

Once and for all, the law needs to make clear that people have the right to use whatever means neccessary to defend ther homes,shops, and family, from marauding gangs of thugs, especially in the case of arson. If somebody tries to burn your house, and you smack him off the chops with a baseball bat, and he ends up with brain damage, then too bad.

I apologise for getting war-wacky, as I'm not normally like this. But these people bleating on about poverty and lack of opportunity make me sick sometimes. I come from a poor background, and I experienced poverty in the 1980s with the poll tax. But I never resorted to crime. I was determined to better myself with hard work and staying on at school. Things turned out well. Rant over!

notprop wrote:

@ KamikazeCanuck - despite what you say you saw - I am almost certain there have never been Challengers deployed on the streets of Belfast.

I don't think so either. I believe it was the Schimitar.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

mattyrm wrote: Alright, armoured cavalry, but the point is they don't drive MBTs an MBT is a Challenger or an Abrams.

No, the Challenger is their main fighting vehicle. Trust me, there was several pictures of Challenger Tanks rolling down the street in Belfast in the regimental museum. Anyways, we're getting off-topic so let's steer this back to The Troubles II: Home Island edition.

Actually, they couldn't have been Challengers they are too new. Must have been Centurions. Anyways, like I said off-topic.

The Centurions were used once in NI during Operation Motorman, though the main guns were reversed and covered over: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Motorman

They used the ARVE version (Armoured Vehicle Royal Engineers) which were used to destroy barricades set up by the IRA.

Edit: The equipment and troop numbers etc for the whole of the conflict can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Banner#Equipment

The Scimitar is a reconnaissance tank.

Kilkrazy wrote:The Scimitar is a reconnaissance tank.

Its an armoured recon vehicle, or an AFV, its not a tank. A tank is an MBT such as a challenger or an abrams. I dont want to sound like a pedantic fether, but there is a big difference between a 20 tonne AFV like a Scimitar or a Warrior and an enormous weapon of death that fires depleted uranium shells. To a layman any AFV looks like a tank obviously, so its not a foolish mistake at all to make, but.. techincally its not a tank.

As I said, we took tanks to Iraq because they had tanks (T55,T62 etc) and tanks exist primarily to take out other tanks.

We took AFVs to NI, but because the IRA/UDF etc dont have tanks, it seems illogical to take MBTs there. Plus, they weigh in excess of 65 tonnes, they would probably annihilate all the roads.

Once you have done a bit of AFV recognisiton you can tell them all apart very easily, the size difference is pretty obvious though.. I had friends who could ping AFVs from miles away, some only by the sound they made, but the main armament is the first thing i used to look for.

Scimitar (relatively puny 30mm cannon)



Challenger MBT (120mm DU death cannon!)

mattyrm wrote:Scimitar (relatively puny 30mm cannon)

Is that crewman to scale?

Here's another Scimitar picture. So, that dude in the model tank looks close to-scale to me.

i forgot what the discussion was about though... Kind of small for a tank, but I'd call it an armored vehicle. Pretty imposing, if you ask me.



I have no problem sending this after the hoodloms. Should scare them off. Don't really want them all shot up, though.

Maybe he's really tall.

ninja'd, sort of.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Maybe he's really tall.

Nah. I say he looks about right.

Yeah he's about right, as I said, Scimitars are little in comparison. Look at that puny gun! I could fire it from the hip!

Scimitar weighs in at 6 and a half tonnes apparently, a challenger is 65!

Troy wrote:If I am reading correctly its about 9.00PM there now. Whats the situation like? News is sayign the London stuff is more under control now.

London is pretty much ok now from what i've seen, mainly because of the increased number of police also probably because of nothing left to loot. just finished work and there was 6 vans, 3 armoured, around 4 cars, loads of police walking around with quite a few wearing full riot gear. Thankfully they've managed to regain control, yesterday was a bit tense but they managed to disperse all the youths around mine without any violence. Places are still closing a bit earlier for safety reasons, just incase.

Took a walk over to Croydon, alot is cleared up but man it's upsetting looking at Reeves corner. If it wasn't for the people rallying together everywhere for the cleanup i would be completely ashamed to be part of the same country as those that did this. Just hope the rest of the country also gets everything a little more calm.

Seems tonight is calm from all the news reports. Feel very sorry now for the parents of the 3 blokes killed in the road collision in Birmingham. BUt yeah tonight is quiet. Eltham seems to have a mild disturbance but otherwise, little going.

Looks like the worst has passed off, just as I thought actually. Riots were really bad on day 3 and the Government acted. Now it's died down so someone can cry out it was too late. Bit debateable that one.

And it's funny - me in Northamptonshire and I heard 3-4 police cars in the afternoon... which is strange since my area is so dull nothing happens ever Guess I get lucky.

mattyrm wrote:Its an armoured recon vehicle, or an AFV, its not a tank. A tank is an MBT such as a challenger or an abrams. I dont want to sound like a pedantic fether, but there is a big difference between a 20 tonne AFV like a Scimitar or a Warrior and an enormous weapon of death that fires depleted uranium shells. To a layman any AFV looks like a tank obviously, so its not a foolish mistake at all to make, but.. techincally its not a tank.

Seriously tho, the argument "we didn't take tanks into Ireland, they were armored recon vehicles" seems a little pedantic. Most people think of a "tank" as a treaded vehicle with a turret-mounted cannon, and that's what the Scimitar is. So while it might not be technically accurate to call it a "tank," the UK did send armored fighting vehicles into Ireland.

Anyway, I read this and laughed. Incredibly frustrating and sad, yet strangely hilarious to watch the left try to defend these cretins.

That article was something else.